To think most of MN don’t know what having no money means

[icecolddrinks]

And that admitting to having none is humiliating.

I see it here all the time. Someone has no money. Someone suggests something to make life easier. The person says again they have no money. MN suggest a cheaper version.

On the thread about dress up so many people were saying to tell the school.

I know debt and low incomes aren’t ideal but they aren’t uncommon either so why is it so hard to acknowledge that someone might have 3p in their bank account and no money?

So many posters claiming they got squillions and squillions in benefits and anyone with no money has obviously squandered it on ciggies booze and flatscreens. Those posters either have a million children, were on the fiddle, or are simply not being honest.

Universal Credit is less than £260 per month if you're young and not disabled. Please explain how someone is supposed to live on less than £260 per month and still have "hundreds" left over??

Plus not everyone is eligible for benefits, and some benefits take many months to come through.

I had to apply for PIP last year because my industry collapsed and I had zero income for a year, it took eight months between applying and receiving my first PIP payment. (I'd been eligible for DLA/PIP for years but not applied because I was earning enough to live on.) This is a benefit specifically for disabled people, who you'd think would be prioritised, but no! How can an 8 month wait for benefits be acceptable?

I was a rough sleeper from the age of 16 but you had to be 18 to apply for benefits. So I was simply not eligible for any form of support.

When I did get on benefits, because I was 18 and didn't have any children, I was on the lowest rate possible. The poster who claimed they received so much money in benefits they had £300 per month after bills and food must be living in fantasy land. My benefits were never that much even before bills and food!

For years I lived on £20 per week which was after rent and bills but had to cover all food, transport, clothes, entertainment, emergencies, and everything else. I am extremely good at budgeting and was a teetotal non-smoker who owned a tiny second hand telly and two pairs of shoes from Primark. I never went into debt even once, but I often had to go hungry. So please take this nonsense about people on benefits wasting their money and shove it.

Poverty isn't only families either.

There are many elderly living in abject poverty.

There are many immigrant farm workers living in abject poverty

Actually, there are many 'heroes' - ex military suffering such bad PTSD that they end up on the streets because of severe mental health problems. We have an armed forces day, wear our poppies with pride, talk about 'heroes' and abandon them to the bottom of a bottle of Strongbow.

Poverty does not bring shame on those who need free school meals or who use foodbanks. I understand why they feel shamed because society pillories them, but the true shame should be felt by those in government and those who benefit from their corruption. A bit for those who vote them into parliament too.

I don't think unless you have lived it you can comprehend...I'm in a different place now but 10 years ago l was choosing to feed my teenagers and not myself sometimes.
I used to have to basically gaurd the fridge when they had friends over. One day on off my son's friends cane with some pasta Nd sauce as he knew l didn't have enough food for him to stay for dinner . I felt terrible.

[quote scaredanddevastated]@52andblue Totally agree with you. It's like the myth of the American Dream - you're only in poverty because you're lazy and you don't work hard enough. [/quote]
yes. and there are plenty of people working full time zero hour gigs who need 'top up' of benefits to be able to pay basic bills too.
But it sets up a narrative of 'benefits scroungers' vs 'hardworking taxpayers'. MN might be an accepted MC haven but for most of us, there simply IS no security. Not for me, currently on Carers allowance until my child turns 16 and his DLA is not replaced by PIP, (not because he isn't magically not ASD any more but 50% of PIP applications are knocked back on principle), not for my exH, a bus driver scared silly of dying in the pandemic, not for anyone, really.

Unless you are in the top few %, some of whom in Govt are profiting nicely out of this. And shamelessly too.

We have been in the food or gas category and it was hideous. Luckily, we managed to get reasonably paid jobs, although public and charity sectors so not hugely well paid and manage a bit better. It wasn't until my mum died and left me a small amount of money (not 100's of thousands, no, less than 20 thousand ) which we've put away that we could breathe easily. I still panic every month though - having also been a single parent in the 1990s living in a very small, not terribly safe place with little chance of getting out until I made a huge fuss.

It's a billion times worse today and people who choose to ignore that and blame 'money management' for hungry children really are the pits

@TwinsandTrifle are you an accountant?

I would love to be spontaneous and treat DD to a random day out at the cinema and not have to worry about the cost when she also wants popcorn but I can't because I have to carefully budget for everything.

To not have to carefully budget you really do have to be loaded though!

I don't know where this idea comes from that even better off people don't still have to budget carefully. We live in a society surrounded by stuff & experiences available to purchase and few people can afford more than a small selection. I swear social media makes it all worse as all you see is everything people have and not any of the choices they've made, things they've sold, stuff they haven't afforded.

I generally live week to week too.
I've a small amount of saving as there was a time when I genuinely had very little money, broke from Monday to Thursday, meal planning on peanuts, it was terrible.
I rarely see begging threads.

I bought a Boden top on eBay for £4, where on earth can you re-sell used Boden for hundreds of pounds?? I had a look on eBay just now and there's loads of like-new Boden dresses listed for £10-20.

Saying it's possible to pay rent and bills and have some left over for treats out of UC is just completely detached from reality. Loads of people only get a few hundred a month.

It's usually the same posters saying "oh well just drop out of school, quit any hope of a career, leave all your friends and family, leave all your possessions, and move somewhere with cheap property prices like the Outer Hebrides (presumably walking 700 miles with your belongings in a rucksack, since trains are very expensive) and I'm sure you'll magically instantly find a new job working in McDonalds or something once you accept that good jobs aren't for the likes of you."

@icecolddrinks

What, so you actually think poor children all live in grim B and Bs? what the hell? I’m laughing because it’s so random!

Actually, not random at all sadly. I don't think I suggested that those living below the 'breadline' all live in B&B accommodation. So your sneering, unpleasant, trollhunters attitude is quite unnecessary. Clearly you lack a degree of understanding of the reality of poverty if you think some families are not living like this.

The number of households in temporary accommodation has been rising since December 2011 The 98,300 households in temporary accommodation in June 2020 included 127,240 children. 64% of the total (62,670 households).
The number of families with dependent children placed in B&B-style accommodation increased from 630 at the end of March 2010 to 1,440 at the end of June 2020.

I'm afraid I don't have more current figures, but you'd surely agree that circa 1500 children in B&B accommodation was not something to either laugh or sneer about?

@LemonRoses well said

Maybe instead of shaming and blaming people living in poverty do we not look at the whole picture and ask why in this country are people having to rely on foodbanks and why people in full time employment still need benefits just to live.

Even this thread shows the ignorance.."having no money mean means I have £500 in my current account and don't want to break into my savings"... that is NOT having no money!!

Having no money means eating whatever is in the cupboard, panicking if something breaks and worrying about how to afford Christmas and birthday presents...

I'm skint, I shouldn't be but childcare for two young children means some days between paydays I don't have any money in the bank..however I have a credit card and always have a fully stocked freezer and cupboards so I don't consider myself destitute but when I say to people "I have no money" I genuinely don't!

It's not right people working full time are living in poverty.

That being said, it is not right that in today's modern world there are people living in poverty full stop.

People should not be skipping meals to feed their children.

We all should be looking towards our government and be asking how the fuck it's gone so wrong.

Goldenbear There is a lot of good fortune that goes with being well off that ironically results in some of the wealthiest people receiving stuff for free or being offered well paid jobs due to the circles they mix in. Their children also benefit just from.being the offspring of people with influence, they get advantages in life that others have to work alot harder for so work experience in decent, interesting places that will lead to good incomes for example.

Absolutely! Money and opportunity, attract money and opportunity.

Unfortunately that's why for some parents especially those who've gone after MC schools ect, the only way to capitalize on those decisions and choices, protect their children and keep them with a foot in that race, is to not engage with FSM etc and find ways around things. It's a difficult decision, but if you're seen as 'alternative' or 'bohemian' there are doors open that aren't ever open if you're seen as 'poor' or in need.

I know this is something a lot of people don't want to hear, but those trying to end generational poverty can't afford the tiny incremental changes offered to each generation.

The numbers of families living in temporary accomodation, living off foodbanks its trully heart breaking and many are from working homes or from homes forced into redundancy or Unemployment. Losing their homes etcin the process.

We are all only one disaster away from being that family.

There's a huge wealth disparity in this country, and a lot of people will obviously never know true hardship others face on a daily basis.

It helps me understand why we have the government we do.

@PreacherTeacher well said
We need to stop blaming and shaming the thousands of families struggling to get by and start asking our government why. Why are children in 2021, in Great Britain relying on foodbanks..

I’ve no idea what you are on about @LemonRoses

Of course children living in temporary accommodation isn’t a laughing matter but it isn’t the case for the majority of poor children or people.

It is not only children in temporary accommodation who should be exempt from teacher gifts.

@icecolddrinks

Having no money doesn’t really mean anything different *@CeeceeBloomingdale*

It doesn’t mean I have not much in my current account but access to an overdraft and anyway I have several hundred in savings.

It means I have no money.

But it doesn't always mean that. I have a savings account that is quite healthy. I often run my bank account down to zero. At that point I say I have no money, even though I strictly do as 8 have a savings account.

I also don't think it's unreasonable for people to suggest ways to save money. My neighbour pleads poverty, uses food banks, but always has money for wine, fags and her latest iPhone on a a contract. Some people are very misguided as to prioritising where money needs to be spent.
Some people however are genuinely broke, don't have luxuries or contract phon, no TV subscriptions etc, and still cat scrap by.

Schools in my opinion need to teach kids cookery and how to budget your money. That's the only way to try and turn this situation around

We all should be looking towards our government and be asking how the fuck it's gone so wrong

Too simplistic to lay blame there.

People are responsible for their own life choices, where they live, how many children then have, what they spend on, how many hours they work etc. The government has no say in those things, they are down to the individual.

I think people are very quick to judge. My nails are always on point because my nail technician friend gave me her old lamp and when she comes over every couple of weeks she does my nails for me with whatever's left over from her week.

I expect neighbors see the food bank people coming and think "well she can always afford to have her nails done"

@HalzTangz i think education is a step forward but its going to take more than teaching cooking and budgeting in schools. A proper living wage is whats needed, proper training and job opportunities for the unemployed. Decent quality affordable housing. And thats just the start.

To not have to carefully budget you really do have to be loaded though!

I don't know where this idea comes from that even better off people don't still have to budget carefully.

I don't disagree that budgeting is not just for poorer people, but when your budget has more flexibility in disposable income then it is not as much of an issue. Some people will have £10 disposable income per month, others will have £10 a week and others will have £10 a day as the value is determined by their personal budget. The flexibility they have is again determined individually - paying £2.50 for a coffee once a week is a luxury each of the people can "afford", but for some that coffee is their entire treat budget. If you arrive one day and the coffee is now £2.60, the £10pm person can no longer afford a coffee every week without having to cut corners elsewhere whereas the £10pw/pd people are more likely to be able to absorb that 10p difference in a way the other person can't.

Everyone has to budget but if you're budgeting with £20 for the week and you cannot spend more than that because you literally haven't got a penny more then it is harder and more stressful than if you're budgeting £20 for the week because you don't want to spend more, but have funds available if you need them.

People are responsible for their own life choices, where they live, how many children then have, what they spend on, how many hours they work etc. The government has no say in those things, they are down to the individual.

I don't think so.
I know many people who never get a choice in most of those things.
Never get a choice and rarely get lucky.
They aren't in an environment to create these 'choices'.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss whose responsibility is it to ensure that people receive a decent wage for doing a decent job. Until we end in work Poverty people are always going to be relying on benefits and food banks.