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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say DH’s brother can’t stay.

148 replies

Martz · 16/07/2021 18:38

Please excuse grammar and formatting, I’m on a mobile phone.

Am I being unreasonable to say that DH’s brother can’t stay at our house? BIL (27) is on the autistic spectrum, although he’s very much independent, holds down a job and takes himself off to music festivals/to other cities as/when he wants to go. PIL bought a house for him and he stays there sometimes, and other times stays with them. PIL are going away for the night and it’s been decided that BIL will stay with us for the night (neither DH or I were asked, we were just told by PIL that’s what was happening).

We have a 3 bedroom house- one room is ours, the second bedroom DC’s room (although he doesn’t sleep in it yet but it has all his nursery furniture in already so no room for anybody to stay), and the smallest room is used as a dressing room. We therefore don’t have a spare bed for him or any room to really put a bed.

He’s openly admitted he’s jealous of DC since their birth, we tried to facilitate some bonding so BIL didn’t feel left out because of a new baby coming into the family, but all it did was make BIL think that he could do as he pleased with DC and this has now caused issues in him becoming quite confrontational and angry towards us when he can’t sit holding DC all the time. He often makes jokes about accidentally dropping DC on their head, or other references to DC sustaining an “accidental injury”- which I don’t find funny and sometimes wonder if there’s an actual spiteful undertone to his “joke” as he’s said it a few times now. He also seems to find it amusing to stick his fingers in DC’s mouth, despite being asked not to on several occasions. DC is 3 months old and therefore nowhere near being weaned yet, however, BIL will often offer food to DC and just last week attempted to feed them some curry- again he’s been asked not to do this and it has been explained to him why he shouldn’t. BIL is now never left unsupervised with DC.

As we don’t have a spare bedroom for him to sleep in, he’d therefore have to sleep on the sofa. He stays awake all night watching TV and then doesn’t get up until late-afternoon. He becomes nasty and will push people if he can’t get his own way, and doesn’t like being woken up. We have to walk through the living room to get to the kitchen, so he will be disturbed in the morning. We also have a dog which sleeps downstairs, however he’s been quite nasty to the dog in the past and on several occasions I’ve had to talk to him about how he treats the dog. He’s kicked the dog in the past, he shouts at it, and pushes it out of the way. We let the dog sit on our sofa, but he doesn’t like this so will often push it off the sofa and then shout in its face or make loud noises to scare it from getting back on the sofa- which is completely unacceptable and the poor dog doesn’t understand what’s happening. As I say, I’ve spoken with him about this in the past, but issues with his behaviour continue to repeat themselves. I’m therefore not comfortable leaving him unsupervised with the dog at any time, and especially not while we’re upstairs asleep. We can’t let the dog sleep upstairs with us as it’s an old dog now and struggles with stairs. It also likes to potter around at night which wakes us up. This is why it sleeps downstairs as it’s a lot happier doing it’s own thing, and we get some sleep.

BIL’s moods are very much up/down. In the past he has punched holes in walls, run away or thrown things in anger if he hasn’t liked something that someone has said/done. He hasn’t done this for a few months now however.

I realise it looks like I’m painting BIL in a bad light, but this is how he behaves. It can become quite draining having to monitor his behaviour and treading on eggshells so as not to say/do anything that would upset him and trigger outbursts. I’m happy having him over to visit as there’s a time limit to it and if we can see he’s getting agitated, my DH will take him for a drive to calm down before dropping him back home. Some times he can visit and be absolutely fine, and he can be a pleasure to be around. Despite the issues I’ve mentioned, we do get on with him and do enjoy his company when he’s having a settled day. However, when he’s unsettled he’s really difficult to manage. We already know he will be unsettled and angsty due to PIL being away- as he often is.

DH has another brother who lives nearby (older BIL), he doesn’t have much time for younger BIL and says he feels his behaviour issues mainly stem from PIL spoiling him and giving in to his demands. However, I feel he may be a more suitable option for younger BIL as he and his partner have a spare bedroom and don’t have pets or children. The other option is that DH stays with younger BIL out of our house at the younger BIL’s house or at PIL’s house.

WIBU if I say BIL cannot stay? or should I just get on with it as it’s only for one night?

OP posts:
JeansShirtJeansJacket · 17/07/2021 04:53

Why is this even an issue? He can just spend the night alone in his home.

But for the record, YANBU and I really hope you put your foot down on this.

TinkerPony · 17/07/2021 05:09

YNBU but Ur DH should not have to go look after brother in his own house as he havevu and baby to look after his own family.
The PIK should have organise a carer or respite carer to look after him while away
Or if he is capable of living alone maybe a nanny cam would be sufficient for the PIL to keep eye on him while away if needed.

unidentifed · 17/07/2021 05:15

"Are you actually listening to the people with autism that are disagreeing with you?"

Because their experience is their OWN, yes. Have you actually read any of my posts?

FrogWaa · 17/07/2021 07:49

I'd like the op to clarify what kind of job the bil has that allows him to assault animals and make violent threats and jokes about babies as he obviously can't help himself according to you. He must be doing at work too surprised he's not been kicked out Of any festivals.

I wonder if MN will rise to the occasion and delete any posts of yours basically claiming autistic men can't help being twats? They do supposedly have rules against ablism

DancesWithTortoises · 17/07/2021 08:11

I hope your DH is able to be firm. This could be the beginning of his parents expecting him to take over the care of his brother when they are too old or die. Firm boundaries.

ButterflyCat2028 · 17/07/2021 09:49

@unidentifed

Did you bother to read OPs post???

Or does the fact that this man clearly has good coping skills to navigate high stress environments (holding down a job, frequently going somewhere with huge amounts of stimulation, independently AND living independently, confuse you???

Because it confuses me how none of his coping skills in those areas dare to translate to family interactions. Strange that.

But no. Go on and keep calling autistic people ignorant for calling out the bs.

AnUnoriginalUsername · 17/07/2021 10:06

@unidentifed educate yourself on autism!
People without autism are often very shit at differentiating between autistic behaviour and bad behaviour. It's actually really offensive to be putting him KICKING A DOG as a result of autism! He's an arsehole because his parents have done that all his life and now look, his own brother doesn't trust him around his family, and rightly so.

You may have a severely autistic child that can't tell right from wrong. This man is capable of holding down a job and going to festivals without a carer, he is not incapable of controlling himself otherwise he couldn't do those things.

Autism does not equal bad. Bad behaviour is not autistic behaviour.

I hate that on mumsnet as soon as someone is said to be autistic they are excused from all wrong doing because the autism makes them do it. And any time someone is talking about someone's shitty behaviour people jump up saying he's probably autistic.

And it is not his brothers wife's job to step in and teach him what is acceptable behaviour. It's his parents job, autistic or otherwise.

CastawayQueen · 17/07/2021 10:26

[quote AnUnoriginalUsername]@unidentifed educate yourself on autism!
People without autism are often very shit at differentiating between autistic behaviour and bad behaviour. It's actually really offensive to be putting him KICKING A DOG as a result of autism! He's an arsehole because his parents have done that all his life and now look, his own brother doesn't trust him around his family, and rightly so.

You may have a severely autistic child that can't tell right from wrong. This man is capable of holding down a job and going to festivals without a carer, he is not incapable of controlling himself otherwise he couldn't do those things.

Autism does not equal bad. Bad behaviour is not autistic behaviour.

I hate that on mumsnet as soon as someone is said to be autistic they are excused from all wrong doing because the autism makes them do it. And any time someone is talking about someone's shitty behaviour people jump up saying he's probably autistic.

And it is not his brothers wife's job to step in and teach him what is acceptable behaviour. It's his parents job, autistic or otherwise.[/quote]
Exactly!
If it was just controlling hisemld for a ‘job’ maybe but he regularly goes out by himself.

Whatever else is wrong with him it ain’t the autism’s fault and he should be kept at arms length…

EishetChayil · 17/07/2021 10:39

This man is a threat to your child and your pet. Why are you even considering allowing him to be around them? I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you need to take action before something unthinkable happens.

Rubyupbeat · 17/07/2021 10:54

Gosh, no way can he stay, I'd be worried sick about my dog, let alone baby.
Surely the easiest option is for DH to stay with him at in-laws or at his house.
It must be so tieing for your in-laws too, they really should employ some kind of carer for him as they will have no life at all, plus what happens when they are not here any more? He needs to be used to having someone else around him.

timeisnotaline · 17/07/2021 11:02

I’m relieved to hear the update. I would not be happy with family dismissing those comments about the baby!

Eveningtwilight · 17/07/2021 11:53

Not a chance should you let him stay even if you lived in a house the size of Buckingham Palace! He sounds seriously unhinged and that he is being enabled and allowed to get away with it because he is on the autistic spectrum.

Valeriekat · 17/07/2021 14:00

Am I the only person who sees the fingers in the babies mouth as very violating? That would be enough for me to make sure he never touched my child again.

AutistGoth · 17/07/2021 14:24

I thought that too, @Valeriekat. And for the record, both my husband and me are autistic. Neither of us would hurt an animal or child.

I struggle with holding down a job and can't live independently (at least not without my also autistic husband or a support worker helping me with basic things), I have meltdowns during which I have harmed myself, there's no way I could attend a festival - though I do love live music and can attend a concert with ear defenders, a soft toy or two and someone to accompany me. Am I a saint? By no means. But harming a child or an animal?? And using my autism as an excuse?? Never.

It honestly upsets me when people excuse the shitty, sometimes abusive behaviour of persons with autism. I've seen it do many times and it angers me so much. Autism does not justify abusive or bigoted behaviour. It really does not!

WildfirePonie · 17/07/2021 14:54

Am I the only person who sees the fingers in the babies mouth as very violating? That would be enough for me to make sure he never touched my child again.

This is actually really shocking, how can anyone stand by and watch a grown man put his fingers in a 3 month olds mouth? What the actual fuck.
Do not let BiL stay or visit!

Martz · 17/07/2021 15:33

@WildfirePonie

Am I the only person who sees the fingers in the babies mouth as very violating? That would be enough for me to make sure he never touched my child again.

This is actually really shocking, how can anyone stand by and watch a grown man put his fingers in a 3 month olds mouth? What the actual fuck.
Do not let BiL stay or visit!

I would like to clarify that nobody has stood by and watched him put his fingers in DC’s mouth, as soon as I saw what he was doing I immediately stopped him. Hell, I don’t even put my own fingers in his mouth. It’s not necessary and it’s unhygienic. However, I will say that don’t think this was actually done on his part to be malicious to DC, I think he genuinely thought it was funny that DC mistook it for being fed and therefore suckled. It was poorly judged and not appropriate to do, which he was told about and as I had already said- he is never unsupervised with DC now.

To those wanting to know what his job is, I’m not going to give too much information as this could be quite outing. I will say however that it isn’t a full time role and he isn’t expected to go in if he’s having an unsettled day. From what I understand, his employers are very flexible and understanding of how he can fluctuate in mood.

OP posts:
doodleZ1 · 17/07/2021 15:45

Has the conversation with PIL taken place yet? I'm glad you are both of the same mind. It must have been very stressful for you

AGirlCalledJohnny · 17/07/2021 15:51

Martz I think it was pretty clear from your OP you weren't standing idly by when your BIL was doing this stuff, I mean, of course not. We all want to give family benefit of the doubt, but he's out of chances now.

So glad your DH is with you on this, and even better he's putting a line in the sand with the PILs. BIL has plenty of other options. Don't ever let anyone make you feel uncomfortable in your own home again, it's not selfish to protect your family.

staringstepan · 17/07/2021 16:09

Autistic or not, anyone that kicked my dog would never set foot in my house again.

(I have aspergers)

unidentifed · 17/07/2021 18:53

[quote ButterflyCat2028]@unidentifed

Did you bother to read OPs post???

Or does the fact that this man clearly has good coping skills to navigate high stress environments (holding down a job, frequently going somewhere with huge amounts of stimulation, independently AND living independently, confuse you???

Because it confuses me how none of his coping skills in those areas dare to translate to family interactions. Strange that.

But no. Go on and keep calling autistic people ignorant for calling out the bs.[/quote]

Actually that's not at all what I'm saying. You are making all kinds of assumptions about this man and what he can do outside of the family home. I think you're wrong. I do not think he is independent in all other settings, and I believe OP has indicated this in some of their subsequent posts.

Is his autism the reason for this Behaviour? No.
Is he a sociopath? Probably not.
Can he tell the difference between appropriate and inappropriate Behaviour with a baby? No.
Can he manage his own emotions? No.

The latter are two are down to his ASD. That doesn't mean the OP should allow this behaviour, as I've indicated in previous posts. But please stop calling him all kinds of names and berating him when he has struggles.

Jericha · 17/07/2021 19:06

@staringstepan

Autistic or not, anyone that kicked my dog would never set foot in my house again.

(I have aspergers)

Same here. I wouldn't give it any headspace. Kick my dog, you don't come over again.
TotorosCatBus · 17/07/2021 19:36

I am relieved that your h is on the same page as you.

I wouldn't have him in my house either because I wouldn't be able to guarantee my baby's and dog's safety.

MeridianB · 17/07/2021 19:40

Oh @Martz, your posts are so reasoned and calm. I’m so glad your DH is on board here.

I agree that PILs are outrageous for telling you this will happen and agree with PP saying they are likely to be testing the water for future trips (and beyond).

I don’t think you’re being remotely unreasonable. What really stood out for me was how much BIL had said and done and yet your baby is only three months! He must have been threatening and manhandling DC since the beginning.

You’ve gone above and beyond to help them bond and you’re now so right to protect your baby (and doggy). Your PILs should want the same!!

Wishing you good luck with it all - stick to your guns! You’re spot on. 💐

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