To say DH’s brother can’t stay.

[Martz]

Please excuse grammar and formatting, I’m on a mobile phone.

Am I being unreasonable to say that DH’s brother can’t stay at our house? BIL (27) is on the autistic spectrum, although he’s very much independent, holds down a job and takes himself off to music festivals/to other cities as/when he wants to go. PIL bought a house for him and he stays there sometimes, and other times stays with them. PIL are going away for the night and it’s been decided that BIL will stay with us for the night (neither DH or I were asked, we were just told by PIL that’s what was happening).

We have a 3 bedroom house- one room is ours, the second bedroom DC’s room (although he doesn’t sleep in it yet but it has all his nursery furniture in already so no room for anybody to stay), and the smallest room is used as a dressing room. We therefore don’t have a spare bed for him or any room to really put a bed.

He’s openly admitted he’s jealous of DC since their birth, we tried to facilitate some bonding so BIL didn’t feel left out because of a new baby coming into the family, but all it did was make BIL think that he could do as he pleased with DC and this has now caused issues in him becoming quite confrontational and angry towards us when he can’t sit holding DC all the time. He often makes jokes about accidentally dropping DC on their head, or other references to DC sustaining an “accidental injury”- which I don’t find funny and sometimes wonder if there’s an actual spiteful undertone to his “joke” as he’s said it a few times now. He also seems to find it amusing to stick his fingers in DC’s mouth, despite being asked not to on several occasions. DC is 3 months old and therefore nowhere near being weaned yet, however, BIL will often offer food to DC and just last week attempted to feed them some curry- again he’s been asked not to do this and it has been explained to him why he shouldn’t. BIL is now never left unsupervised with DC.

As we don’t have a spare bedroom for him to sleep in, he’d therefore have to sleep on the sofa. He stays awake all night watching TV and then doesn’t get up until late-afternoon. He becomes nasty and will push people if he can’t get his own way, and doesn’t like being woken up. We have to walk through the living room to get to the kitchen, so he will be disturbed in the morning. We also have a dog which sleeps downstairs, however he’s been quite nasty to the dog in the past and on several occasions I’ve had to talk to him about how he treats the dog. He’s kicked the dog in the past, he shouts at it, and pushes it out of the way. We let the dog sit on our sofa, but he doesn’t like this so will often push it off the sofa and then shout in its face or make loud noises to scare it from getting back on the sofa- which is completely unacceptable and the poor dog doesn’t understand what’s happening. As I say, I’ve spoken with him about this in the past, but issues with his behaviour continue to repeat themselves. I’m therefore not comfortable leaving him unsupervised with the dog at any time, and especially not while we’re upstairs asleep. We can’t let the dog sleep upstairs with us as it’s an old dog now and struggles with stairs. It also likes to potter around at night which wakes us up. This is why it sleeps downstairs as it’s a lot happier doing it’s own thing, and we get some sleep.

BIL’s moods are very much up/down. In the past he has punched holes in walls, run away or thrown things in anger if he hasn’t liked something that someone has said/done. He hasn’t done this for a few months now however.

I realise it looks like I’m painting BIL in a bad light, but this is how he behaves. It can become quite draining having to monitor his behaviour and treading on eggshells so as not to say/do anything that would upset him and trigger outbursts. I’m happy having him over to visit as there’s a time limit to it and if we can see he’s getting agitated, my DH will take him for a drive to calm down before dropping him back home. Some times he can visit and be absolutely fine, and he can be a pleasure to be around. Despite the issues I’ve mentioned, we do get on with him and do enjoy his company when he’s having a settled day. However, when he’s unsettled he’s really difficult to manage. We already know he will be unsettled and angsty due to PIL being away- as he often is.

DH has another brother who lives nearby (older BIL), he doesn’t have much time for younger BIL and says he feels his behaviour issues mainly stem from PIL spoiling him and giving in to his demands. However, I feel he may be a more suitable option for younger BIL as he and his partner have a spare bedroom and don’t have pets or children. The other option is that DH stays with younger BIL out of our house at the younger BIL’s house or at PIL’s house.

WIBU if I say BIL cannot stay? or should I just get on with it as it’s only for one night?

Hard no.
He can't be trusted with your baby or your dog.
There are plenty of other options available so don't feel guilty.
He can stay at his house alone
He can go to your BIL's house
DH can go and stay in his house
BIL can go and stay in his house

Absolute no. Child has to come first. As others have said i would reevaluate even letting him hold your child supervised and I wouldn't let the in laws babysit as I think their judgement is off.

Your husband sleeps over at his. My db had a learning disability and he stays home alone

Oh hell no! I think it's a good idea maybe if your DH stays at his parents with him as it's only one night. The Pil really need to ask next time, instead of assuming it be the right thing for him, when it clearly isn't.

Not a chance would have him staying overnight. I really feel for your PILs - they’re probably desperate for a break - and I can see why he might not be able to stay on his own in his house if he’s unsettled by their absence, but either he stays with your other BiL, or your DH or BiL stay with him at his place.

Kicked your dog!!!! In a million years he would not enter my house. Dh can stay with him elsewhere. Youre not even one iota unreasonable

I honestly cannot believe what I am reading here.

He has AUTISM. He isn't a potential sociopath. FGS. This is why our society is the way it is, because no one has any compassion.

Is your DH the only sibling your BIL has?

Do you know much about Autism?

Individuals with ASD (or autistics as some preferred to be called) struggle with social communication skills, and restricted interests and repetitive behaviours. The latter means that any changes in routine can cause immense distress and anxiety. So PIL going away is a HUGE change for him. A lack of social communication skills explain why he has no "filter" and why he struggles to self regulate (behaving the way he does when things don't go his way because he hasn't learned how to deal with disappointment).

Am I saying he should stay because of this? Absolutely not. Your baby's safety comes first. I may offer to just go in your position (to your parents).

Your BIL can be taught to self regulate and you can teach him appropriate versus inappropriate behaviours in your home. He may need this to be explained in a way that is more direct than you would typically tell a neurotypical person and you may need to have rules that are typically "unspoken".

Just to all the posters saying some really harsh things, this is a man who is likely emotionally 10 years old. Would you say the things you have about a 10 year old?

I am surprised that you needed to even ask the question here - why is your DH even contemplating having him to stay in light of all the examples you gave?

How far away does he live?

I think if he genuinely needs the company, then as family, you should all help. If his other brother cannot assist, could your DH go stay with him at his own house/PILs' house?

I did say you should help, but it comes with the caveat of keeping your DC safe. So, your contribution to the helping would be looking after your DC on your own for the night whilst your DH goes to look after his DB.

I am not sure why you eve let him visit. I have no kids but nobody who abused my dog would stay longer than 2 minutes after doing it and would not get through the front door again. If he has enough self control to have a job and travel alone, he has enough self control to behave himself in your house. If he doesn't behave then its not disability, its choice.

Oh and I would not be leaving my own house to facilitate his behaviour.

@GetTaeFuck

He can’t be left alone with your baby. He can’t be left alone with your dog.

Obviously the answer is no.

I agree 100%. It's outrageously unfair of PIL to expect it.

My BIL has Aspergers and sounds similar. Although I'm no expert, and as the saying goes, if you know one person with autism, you know... one person with autism.

I think the jokes about the baby are misjudged humour. He's not picking up on the social cues that you're uncomfortable and he's going too far. You have to be blunt, tell him you don't find it funny and ask him directly to stop.

My BIL also loved to hold my DC, a bit like they were a doll, it was fine when they were very little. He loves his nieces very much, but he doesn't really get how to interact with them. I had ground rules, he always held them sitting down on the sofa, me or DH in the room, and that was fine. He also appreciates a hard and fast rule, and my main one is that whatever I say to do with DC goes, no arguments. I'm quite firm, and after a couple of times where he tried to tell me what to do, that's been fine. He's more likely to argue with DH tbh. He can tell I mean it and won't take any shit.

It's very useful as now my oldest is 4, he likes to tease her, or tickle fight with her, and he doesn't always judge where the line between good fun and too far is that well. He doesn't know his own strength and isn't a great judge of personal space. I can just say that's enough stop now, and he will listen. DD will also tell him directly to stop and he will usually then as well. She gets it already that you need to tell him firmly, or get another adult involved.

He is also, a bit the same with our cats. He loves to stroke them, but he has no idea when they have had enough. I try and point out their flicking tails, head movements etc but it's hard for him to notice. And in his mind, that's what you do with cats, you stroke them, and they like it. I wonder if you BIL has some kind of rule in his head that dogs aren't allowed on sofas, and can't see the nuance, that it's your house, your dog and your sofa, so it's okay. Not that I want to excuse him treating animals poorly, but just trying to see where it might be coming from?

BIL can also get really anxious, and angry at himself, and has walked off, and shouted loudly in the past. He hasn't hit anyone or anything to my knowledge, but generally his family know to leave him to calm down/walk it off and don't physically intervene. It often stems from him having misjudged things socially. He's not able to realise in the moment what it is he's doing wrong and to alter his behaviour but he is very aware afterwards that people are annoyed and he gets very cross with himself about it.

I think in your shoes, I'd get DH or other BIL to stay with him elsewhere, as you don't have the space, plus are still adjusting to being a family of 3.

Longer term, I'd think about how you can manage BIL and DCs relationship. I try and plan a few things BIL can do safely with DC. For example, he takes older DD to feed the fish and fill up the bird feeders, that's "their job". He pulls faces to keep younger DD occupied while someone changes her nappy. He gets out bath toys and puts them away at bath time (but doesn't do any personal care or playing). He likes to push the pram if we go for a walk.

Basically, he loves them and wants to be involved but isn't always sure how. Clear instructions and jobs to involve him seem to work for my BIL.

@unidentifed

I honestly cannot believe what I am reading here.

He has AUTISM. He isn't a potential sociopath. FGS. This is why our society is the way it is, because no one has any compassion.

Is your DH the only sibling your BIL has?

Do you know much about Autism?

Individuals with ASD (or autistics as some preferred to be called) struggle with social communication skills, and restricted interests and repetitive behaviours. The latter means that any changes in routine can cause immense distress and anxiety. So PIL going away is a HUGE change for him. A lack of social communication skills explain why he has no "filter" and why he struggles to self regulate (behaving the way he does when things don't go his way because he hasn't learned how to deal with disappointment).

Am I saying he should stay because of this? Absolutely not. Your baby's safety comes first. I may offer to just go in your position (to your parents).

Your BIL can be taught to self regulate and you can teach him appropriate versus inappropriate behaviours in your home. He may need this to be explained in a way that is more direct than you would typically tell a neurotypical person and you may need to have rules that are typically "unspoken".

Just to all the posters saying some really harsh things, this is a man who is likely emotionally 10 years old. Would you say the things you have about a 10 year old?

You are correct in that his emotional capacity certainly is not that of a 27 year old, hence why we’ve been so patient with him and his outbursts, and why we initially tried to facilitate bonding with him and the baby at the start- although that didn’t end up working out as we’d hoped. Given his autism and the fact that I have limited experience of being around somebody who has it, I posted here to ask for advice on whether I would be unreasonable in not letting him stay as I’m very much aware that his behaviours can’t always be helped and didn’t want to be “that person” who was being intolerant to a disability. He will become unsettled by PIL going away for the evening, I’m mindful of that already. However, when unsettled this is when his behaviour can become more difficult to manage and at 20+ stone he is a force to be reckoned with when he has a really violent outburst.

I have spoken with DH and said I’m not comfortable in him staying here in light of the fact that we were not asked, there’s nowhere for him to sleep, and the fact that he can’t be left unsupervised around DC or the dog. DH has said he had also been concerned about the same things but didn’t know how to approach it. I suggested he stay with BIL but he (like previous posters have said) thinks this isn’t the way forward as he can see this being expected again in the future and he feels it’s not fair for PIL to ask this of him when we have a baby of our own to care for.

He said he’s going to speak to PIL to ask them to make alternative arrangements for BIL as we cannot accommodate him or his needs.

He often makes jokes about accidentally dropping DC on their head, or other references to DC sustaining an “accidental injury”- which I don’t find funny and sometimes wonder if there’s an actual spiteful undertone to his “joke” as he’s said it a few times now.

Many a true word is spoken in jest.

Not a chance would he be coming near my baby again let alone staying in my home.

Martz can I say, as someone with autism, he sounds like a fucking sociopath. I also have autistic friends and we all love animals and treat babies appropriately.

You can be autistic and an awful person. And the autism doesn't excuse the awfulness.

Misjudged or weird humour is one thing, and a lot of us have that and its nice if people recognise that it doesn't come from a place if bad intent.

But this guy does bad things, actual bad actions. Thats no social misunderstanding.

Hard fucking no. Your PIL can offload him somewhere else. Your baby takes priority and I always say I don't care who's vexed or pleased, I will never regret putting my child ahead of other people or their feelings. Likewise with your dog - kicking my dog would be the last time he stepped foot in my home. Again, I'm not putting anyone's feelings ahead of my family's welfare and that includes my dog. Besides that! Where would you put him! PIL are VVVVU and CF into the bargain.

How is it he can take himself off to music festivals alone but can't spend one night alone?

Parents need to arrange care for him.

@unidentifed

I honestly cannot believe what I am reading here.

He has AUTISM. He isn't a potential sociopath. FGS. This is why our society is the way it is, because no one has any compassion.

Is your DH the only sibling your BIL has?

Do you know much about Autism?

Individuals with ASD (or autistics as some preferred to be called) struggle with social communication skills, and restricted interests and repetitive behaviours. The latter means that any changes in routine can cause immense distress and anxiety. So PIL going away is a HUGE change for him. A lack of social communication skills explain why he has no "filter" and why he struggles to self regulate (behaving the way he does when things don't go his way because he hasn't learned how to deal with disappointment).

Am I saying he should stay because of this? Absolutely not. Your baby's safety comes first. I may offer to just go in your position (to your parents).

Your BIL can be taught to self regulate and you can teach him appropriate versus inappropriate behaviours in your home. He may need this to be explained in a way that is more direct than you would typically tell a neurotypical person and you may need to have rules that are typically "unspoken".

Just to all the posters saying some really harsh things, this is a man who is likely emotionally 10 years old. Would you say the things you have about a 10 year old?

How the hell have you arrived at him having an emotional age of ten?

He has a job, work is occasionally frustrating. He does not kick people at work. So he has self control. He chose to kick a defenseless animal he chooses to go to festivals which are messy/confusing/different. The op should not leave her home.

Absofuckinglutely not. You only needed to write half of your OP, OP, up to the jokes of dropping your DC on the head/ putting food and fingers in their mouth. He’s just a prick, Autism or not.

OP i think you have kept a very even keel and stayed calm in a difficult situaton.
Its good your husband has your back in this situation. The more he does it the easier it will get

But utimately your child (and innocent dog ) needs to be kept safe. You need to put your foot down and start as you mean to go on.

You will need to continue to be vigilant and safeguard your family in certain situations where your husband still shys away as its "awkward".

@Martz

I don't think you were harsh or lacking compassion in your OP. I do think many posters here are completely off the mark in how they think you should respond, though you've had some good advice too (particularly the staying firm post).

It's great that your DH is going to have a conversation with your PIL because at the end of the day, he may need a respite carer rather than family looking after him. He's aggressive and 20 stone, as you said, and the responsibility shouldn't all be on your shoulders. It's probably also time to talk about what happens when PIL aren't around anymore.

You must have the patience of a saint OP, I am probably one of the least doggy people there is but if someone kicked a dog in my presence I would see red.

People who hurt human beings often start by hurting animals, so you are right to be wary of his 'jokes' about your baby.

YANBU to refuse to have him to stay or have him in your home ever again. Put your foot down now or this will escalate.

I got to the bit where he is putting his fingers in your child's mouth and read no more. YANBU enough. I wouldnt let him have anything further to do with my child and he absolutely wouldn't be staying in my home.

He said he’s going to speak to PIL to ask them to make alternative arrangements for BIL as we cannot accommodate him or his needs.

Perfect. He would not be coming into my house again. I’ve worked with many autistic people over the years and I’m really taken aback at his behaviour. He is NOT your responsibility.