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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think they should separate girls and boys on sports day

222 replies

EmergencyHaribo · 16/07/2021 18:37

I wasn't sure if I should post this in feminism but I sort of wanted everyones opinions. I've NC.

DS (6) came home from his sports day today and was really excited that he'd won an event and mentioned some of his friends (all boys) who had also won events. We celebrated all of their achievements then I asked if any of his girl friends had won anything. He said it was only boys who had won events and that it was because the girls weren't strong enough.

I was horrified at this as I've never brought him up to think anything like this and challenged him. He said that that's what the girls were saying amongst themselves after the events were finished.

This made me so sad. I hate to think that girls feel this way about themselves. I know some people believe that 6 year olds are physically the same despite their sex and that it is down to socialisation; boys being encouraged to be physical and girls being encouraged into less physical pursuits, but I sort of feel this is irrelevant at this stage, because now they are seeing evidence that 'boys are stronger'.

AIBU to think that it makes sense to separate them by sex for the events so there was a boy winner and girl winner for each event? And each could be celebrated for their strength?

OP posts:

UndertheCedartree · 18/07/2021 21:39

@ChateauMargaux - this is why I have always put my DD in trainers for school - much more practical.

Soontobe60 · 18/07/2021 21:48

Currently teaching in Y5. I had to split my class into groups of 5 or 6, mixed sex. I did it by putting the fastest girls and boys together, the slowest together etc, in every race bar 1 the boys won the running, the girls the skipping and obstacle - which involved skipping! At this age, the girls tend to be better than the boys as they have often started puberty so are taller and stronger - it’s the sweet spot! Plus boys generally can’t skip as well as the girls because they tend not to play with the skipping ropes at break time.

Original poster

EmergencyHaribo · 18/07/2021 21:56

@BFrazzled

I doubt that having a girl would change my opinion on sex separation anymore than it did yours.

The difference in my opinion and yours is that you're looking at it from an athletic point of view and I'm looking at it (and started this thread) from a feminist point of view. I personally don't care for sports and have never encouraged my son in any sporting pursuit.

The issue to me here is girls self esteem, not athletic achievement. And physical difference/socialisation argument aside, girls see women competing against each other at the olympics and in football tournaments etc so why would competing against only girls 'send them a message'?

OP posts:

Original poster

EmergencyHaribo · 18/07/2021 22:06

[quote UndertheCedartree]@ChateauMargaux - this is why I have always put my DD in trainers for school - much more practical.[/quote]
All kids should have to wear trainers for school in my opinion. Much more comfortable to move around in than silly, stiff school shoes (boys and girls shoes).

Our school actually do allow it as they do so much outdoor activity and now on the children's clothes debate I'm thinking about the shoes the girls wear, some wear trainers but others wear patent leather t bar type things. Those can't be comfortable for long walks through the forest, which they do very frequently.

OP posts:

00100001 · 18/07/2021 22:06

@Uramaki

They don't shove all the olympic athletes in one group so there's obviously a difference so yes, they should be seperate.

Guess you've missed the news of males being selected for female teams for the Olympics... Destroying women's weight lifting records etc...

BFrazzled · 18/07/2021 22:14

I don’t know @EmergencyHaribo…it did send this message to me and my classmates. It was a very strange thing that being perfectly physically able to run as fast as boys we nevertheless told that we were not permitted to compete against them. And I could not care less what happens at the olympics when I was 6.
Sex has absolutely no bearing on sports ability before puberty. The only reasons you yourself bought up to support separation (clothes, societal expectations) have to do with gender expectations and not with sex.
I am not sure you understood that but I am also talking about this from feminist perspective. School races have little to do with athletic success…

Original poster

EmergencyHaribo · 18/07/2021 22:21

@BFrazzled

'It was a very strange thing that being perfectly physically able to run as fast as boys we nevertheless told that we were not permitted to compete against them. '

I do get that. That must have been really frustrating and I can see why you feel the way you do.

OP posts:

kowari · 18/07/2021 22:25

I wasn't sporty as a child, but I got a lot of satisfaction out of beating all the boys at maths, or at a game of spotlight on cub scout camp. So I understand wanting to be able to compete!

334bu · 18/07/2021 22:55

Sex has absolutely no bearing on sports ability before puberty.

I am sorry but this is just not true. The difference between boys and girls is much narrower pre puberty but it does exist. Yes some girls will outperform all the boys but on average the very best boys will beat girls, though by a very reduced margin. After puberty the difference is massive with hundreds of schoolboys regularly outperforming the very top female athletes in the world.

reader12 · 18/07/2021 23:10

YANBU

My year 6 son came home all excited about sports day, telling me who won which race and it was all boys. They don’t separate the boys and girls for the 100 metre running race which is the only one that competitive, so no girl ever gets to win and I think that’s rubbish for the girls. There should be a boys race and a girls race and everything else can be mixed in teams.

BFrazzled · 18/07/2021 23:17

@334bu

*Sex has absolutely no bearing on sports ability before puberty.*

What you wrote is a reason to separate males and females in serous competitions and even then only in sports where sex makes difference. It is not a reason to stop or discourage a keen primary aged girl from competing with boys in a school race or playing football in mixed team. The differences before puberty are minimal if they exist at all and there is scientific evidence to support this.

Original poster

EmergencyHaribo · 18/07/2021 23:31

@reader12

YANBU

I can't believe they are still expecting Y6 children to race together!

OP posts:

334bu · 18/07/2021 23:35

Of course in certain circumstances there will be girls who can compete with the boys and why should they not be allowed to race against them or play with them on a sports team. However, we are talking here of a school which chose to make their sports day a mixed sex event, which resulted in only boys winning. Why no girls? Could it be that, with the exception of a very few girls, most boys outperform girls. It doesn't have to be by much to win and probably not enough to not make girls competitive in team sports at that age. The differences might be very slight but athletic statistics do seem to point to boys doing better than girls, at least from about 8 onwards.

Micemakingclothes · 18/07/2021 23:41

I’m surprised they don’t. Even at 6 the boys are on average bigger and stronger.

It was especially obvious when my dd was that age because she skews to the very low end of the percentiles. Even just normal playground play with her male peers ended up with her injured frequently. The boys weren’t being unreasonably rough or inconsiderate in any way, it was just that they were like brick walls compared to her.

PRsecrets · 19/07/2021 03:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CrumpetyTea · 19/07/2021 04:01

The scientific evidence is that boys don't have an advantage over girls until puberty so there is no reason to separate them. Anecdotally if I look at the girls and boys in DS's year (year 6) the girls have the physical advantage.
What I remember though is that boys are encouraged to be physical, do more sport and be more competitive and this translates into winning more - this is social though and not physical.

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2021 07:58

@EmergencyHaribo - yes, I agree. While trainers are allowed at my DD's school most of the girls wear 'school shoes'. And they do loads of outdoor stuff too in their forest area etc.

CallMeNutribullet · 19/07/2021 08:06

There isn't a basis in science for sex segregation pre puberty as far as I'm aware. I used to manage the sponsorship of a national football program for young primary school children and the coaches stated there was absolutely no difference in skill level or performance in primary age children irrespective of sex.

ohdelay · 19/07/2021 08:11

That's unusual for primary school as for the past couple of years the girls have trounced the boys at sports day? My son is year six and all his female friends tower over him. I can understand them being separated in secondary school but in primary school surely all the size advantages are with the girls?

Goldenbear · 19/07/2021 11:58

My year 5, 10 year old won the 100 metres, beat two boys in her group and it was not based on ability so I am surprised that a PP stated that no girls won the year 6, 100 metres! Other groups had a girl winner and second places, beating boys, this pattern was pretty much the case throughout the day. I suppose year 5 to year 6 can be quite a big difference in physical stature.

My DD is not 'athletic' in the way that people are using it on this thread, she doesn't attend sports clubs. I think she is naturally good at running, she is fit and is small physically so I'm not sure if she is more agile as a result. We walk the furthest to school and back so about 3 miles in total- not very far but we walk everywhere at the weekend and go to parks etc. Some of her friends live on the school doorstep so I would say even though they tower over her she is fitter and that helps. I do think that natural ability comes in to this. I was rubbish at running but very good at tennis and games with bats like rounders, I have quite strong arms and always have done.

I think we need to be careful about dictating to girls what they should and shouldn't wear. My DD loves wearing the school summer dress, she wears trainers but prefers t-bar shoes as she says they are not as hot. She likes sketching designs and not being a sheep with clothes, I think she finds sporty clothes hum drum and I find it worrying when we are saying those choices are bad but these are good especially as dresses are more likely to be associated with being female. Shouldn't girls just stop being 'told' what they should do, how they should behave all the time, whatever the content of that message?

Original poster

EmergencyHaribo · 19/07/2021 12:16

I agree. One of the things I hate the most is girls getting the message that dresses and everything traditionally feminine = bad and joggers and everything traditionally masculine = good (which is the message I received in the 90s). But I think t bar type shoes (and boys school shoes) probably wouldn't be the most comfortable and practical to run about in.

OP posts:

Aberteifi · 19/07/2021 12:22

In my childrens school Ks1 race against both and in Ks2 they are segregated.

puffyisgood · 19/07/2021 12:25

Does sex really make any difference before male puberaty?

My DS is 10, the tallest boy in his class is about 5' tall, whereas there are a couple of girls who are closer to 5'6", I'm sure that they're stronger & probably faster than almost any of the boys.

334bu · 19/07/2021 12:43

In my own sons' class year six, the tallest children were all boys although there were some quite tall girls. It was also at this stage that my son decided to quit judo as he was being asked to fight teenage girls instead of boys because of the weight class. He told me he didn't like fighting the girls as he might hurt them. It is of course quite possible that his class was exceptional as there were at least two boys in the class who topped 6 feet before they started secondary school.

RealBecca · 19/07/2021 12:58

Might have been better to split into groups and allocate points to individual 1st/2nd/3rd places and then have an overall wonnong team made up of mixed sexs and abilities rather than amaking it about individual wins

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