To think they should separate girls and boys on sports day

[EmergencyHaribo]

I wasn't sure if I should post this in feminism but I sort of wanted everyones opinions. I've NC.

DS (6) came home from his sports day today and was really excited that he'd won an event and mentioned some of his friends (all boys) who had also won events. We celebrated all of their achievements then I asked if any of his girl friends had won anything. He said it was only boys who had won events and that it was because the girls weren't strong enough.

I was horrified at this as I've never brought him up to think anything like this and challenged him. He said that that's what the girls were saying amongst themselves after the events were finished.

This made me so sad. I hate to think that girls feel this way about themselves. I know some people believe that 6 year olds are physically the same despite their sex and that it is down to socialisation; boys being encouraged to be physical and girls being encouraged into less physical pursuits, but I sort of feel this is irrelevant at this stage, because now they are seeing evidence that 'boys are stronger'.

AIBU to think that it makes sense to separate them by sex for the events so there was a boy winner and girl winner for each event? And each could be celebrated for their strength?

My children's primary schools always have separated them. And all the XC events too.

I attended sports day at my sons primary a few days ago. I found it was pretty equal in terms of boys/girls winning but what made me smile the biggest was when one of the kids who has a disability was taking part in the sprint and all the other kids slowed down a little - she powered ahead and won to screams and applause from her team mates. Some might say not to do that but these were a bunch of 6yr olds and I thought it was the sweetest thing. My eyes are actually filling up at the memory as I type.

@Woobeedoo

I attended sports day at my sons primary a few days ago. I found it was pretty equal in terms of boys/girls winning but what made me smile the biggest was when one of the kids who has a disability was taking part in the sprint and all the other kids slowed down a little - she powered ahead and won to screams and applause from her team mates. Some might say not to do that but these were a bunch of 6yr olds and I thought it was the sweetest thing. My eyes are actually filling up at the memory as I type.

Oh I love that

My daughter won most of the races at sports day in primary school- she totally whipped the boys! She's a delicate thing too

Single sex at primary school usually translates to "sorry we don't have funding for a girls XYZ team" or "sorry but unless we get more girls to join we can't run an XYZ girls team" or even worse "THE BOYS TEAM JUST CAME RUNNER UP IN LOCAL TOWN COMPETITION! The girls are off to nationals next week. BUT IM SURE YOU'LL ALL JOIN ME IN CONGRATULATING THE BOYS! WELL DONE LADS!"

The best thing my nephew's school did was divide the 2 year classes into 4-5 teams with an even-ish mix of young/old/boy/girl/special needs etc. No individual medals but team competitiveness, and lots of kids cheering their own team members in events. It worked SO well.

Football is a whole issue on its own - it’s all bound up with self worth and gender stereotypes and all that. I read an ethnographic report into football in primary schools which described it exactly - girls not allowed to touch the ball, forced off the pitch to the edges of the playground.

I am hearing this from DD10, just this week. Boys don't want to give up the 'best' pitch to girls, so they just take over and won't pass to the girls. I am going to email the school, and pursue it next year if I have to

@TheBitchOfTheVicar The report is here, if you’re interested (I saw it via the excellent Make Space for Girls newsletter):
www.researchgate.net/publication/248975381_%27Why_can%27t_girls_play_football%27_Gender_dynamics_and_the_playground

I read it with continual shocks of recognition, it describes my dd’s experiences so precisely. Especially the bit about derision and exclusion of girls and non-footballing boys.

My girls are athletic and every sports day since reception have been faster than the boys in their class. They’re almost 9 now and, once again, sports day was mixed. One boy was faster than them in the sprints, it didn’t occur to them that it was unfair to be racing against boys. Neither would be happy to be the fastest girl, they would want to be the fastest in the year. Until puberty most girls are more physically able than boys anyway.

IT'S SEX

NOT GENDER

I think it’s pretty awful that your 6 year old said that the girls didn’t win anything because they aren’t strong enough! Our infant school doesn’t separate sexes, but they do split the children by ability in running races. My 7 year old won her sprint race, which included a lineup of both girls and boys.
So I would say YANBU to be annoyed that girls didn’t win any races, but YABU to think the answer is to separate the sexes.

With regards to football, when I was in year 5 a Year 5/6 football club was started for girls at my school but on the first session all the boys stood and laughed at the girls. I would have carried on going but no one else wanted to so the club never made it to a second session.

I’m determined that no boy will laugh at my daughter because she doesn’t know how to play football aged 10. She’s now 4 and has been in a toddler football club since 18 months old. Sadly, for almost all of that time she’s been the only girl. She absolutely loves it so I’m sure most other little girls would too. But even today barely any parent signs their daughter up for football whereas boys are pushed into it in their droves.

'I think it’s pretty awful that your 6 year old said that the girls didn’t win anything because they aren’t strong enough!'

@Moonlaserbearwolf perhaps you could read my OP again.....

I would have thought, statistically, that if there was really no difference at that age, that the tally of medals should be spread evenly between boys and girls. But the girls won nothing so I'd be wanting to know how that might have happened.

I'm not signing either of my DC up for football. I hate the culture and on a more selfish level if I'm waiting around watching something it will be either a summer sport, indoors or something I enjoy.

I also have massive issues with the lack of respect in football at all levels in how players act around officials. Rugby has a much healthier culture around authority and officials but has other issues (injury risk).

Both will get basic football skills through multi sports activities but football club sessions are not happening.

@randomsabreuse

I'm not signing either of my DC up for football. I hate the culture and on a more selfish level if I'm waiting around watching something it will be either a summer sport, indoors or something I enjoy.

I also have massive issues with the lack of respect in football at all levels in how players act around officials. Rugby has a much healthier culture around authority and officials but has other issues (injury risk).

Both will get basic football skills through multi sports activities but football club sessions are not happening.

How old are your dc? You might not get a choice if they like it! Neither dh or I are particularly interested in football but ds is obsessed. The culture at grass roots kids football is completely positive, respectful and it has massively enhanced my ds life. Keep an open mind.

@EmergencyHaribo I read your OP perfectly well. I’m not having a go at your 6 year old!! It’s a sad state of affairs when girls OR boys who are 6 years old are saying that boys are stronger! It really doesn’t matter who said it first. Your school could have avoided this outcome by sorting the children by ability like many other schools do.

www.researchgate.net/publication/224914505_Physical_Fitness_Differences_Between_Prepubescent_Boys_and_Girls

I think there are slight differences even before puberty. Mixed sex events may well end up with a lot more boys winning, and that may not be encouraging to girls.

The problem with sorting children by ability is that you could end up with top groups that are mostly boys, and bottom groups that are mostly girls, and that could result in teasing or feeling "different."

@VerySmallPears thanks, that's just what I need

Differences are apparent well before puberty.

www.usatf.org/resources/statistics/records/championship-meet-records/usatf-national-junior-olympic-track-field-champion

The above is a list of the record holders over the years for the various events in the various age categories( apologies that you have to wade through all the boys age categories before reaching the girls) Even in the 8 and under category boys are significantly better in most events.
In individual schools there may be outstanding girl athletes but when it comes to national levels the difference in abilities between boys and girls is really significant.

YANBU and should raise it with the school. It may be done to have fewer events, but even so is not right.

At Primary girls can often have the advantage in some sports as they are bigger and going through puberty. The issue more often is families and schools that don’t encourage girls to be active so many are really unfit from very young.

The issue more often is families and schools that don’t encourage girls to be active so many are really unfit from very young.

This will only be exacerbated if they are discouraged from sport by constantly losing out to the boys. Yes there are some girls who are very athletic, but as the stats show in a country where sport is king in schools for both boys and girls, from early primary school boys outperform girls. Therefore it is grossly unfair to make girls compete against boys.

@334bu

*The issue more often is families and schools that don’t encourage girls to be active so many are really unfit from very young.*

This will only be exacerbated if they are discouraged from sport by constantly losing out to the boys. Yes there are some girls who are very athletic, but as the stats show in a country where sport is king in schools for both boys and girls, from early primary school boys outperform girls. Therefore it is grossly unfair to make girls compete against boys.

But it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. Families don’t prioritise physical activity for girls so they become unfit and they will lose at sports and become even more disheartened. But splitting it by sex often means too much of a spotlight is put on the unfit girls and so only the fit ones will even turn up to sports day. DN’s school used to try sex segregated sports evens but it was only ever the same three girls who ever turned up.

Yes it is a self fulfilling prophecy if girls are not encouraged but this is a thread about a school choosing to make girls compete with boys at sports day , with the result that only boys won. As shown upthread, even in societies where sport is paramount for both boys and girls, boys overall will always do better than girls, so to make girls compete against them is not only unfair but demoralising.