To think they should separate girls and boys on sports day

[EmergencyHaribo]

I wasn't sure if I should post this in feminism but I sort of wanted everyones opinions. I've NC.

DS (6) came home from his sports day today and was really excited that he'd won an event and mentioned some of his friends (all boys) who had also won events. We celebrated all of their achievements then I asked if any of his girl friends had won anything. He said it was only boys who had won events and that it was because the girls weren't strong enough.

I was horrified at this as I've never brought him up to think anything like this and challenged him. He said that that's what the girls were saying amongst themselves after the events were finished.

This made me so sad. I hate to think that girls feel this way about themselves. I know some people believe that 6 year olds are physically the same despite their sex and that it is down to socialisation; boys being encouraged to be physical and girls being encouraged into less physical pursuits, but I sort of feel this is irrelevant at this stage, because now they are seeing evidence that 'boys are stronger'.

AIBU to think that it makes sense to separate them by sex for the events so there was a boy winner and girl winner for each event? And each could be celebrated for their strength?

Oh someone mentioned the Olympics - they're not sex segregated either now 🤦🏻‍♀️

See this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/4289181-please-sign-petition-to-protect-women-s-sport?pg=1

Is there really such a difference at 6? My niece and nephew are both 6 and niece is the quicker runner despite being shorter. My DD at 2 I can already see will be quicker than my DS. DS at 4 is much slower than his female best friend who is younger in year than him. Among his friends the variation in speed running doesnt seem linked to sex.

Absolutely! This really annoyed me at my kids’ primary. One year I kept tally and out of 20odd medals I think 3 were won by girls, and none of them was first place. In the younger years the exceptional girls can sometimes still beat the boys but by age 10 or so there are usually a few boys that are faster than all but future Olympian girls. I complained to the head of PE but then Covid stopped it last year and now my kids have moved on so I’m not sure if they changed it or not.

My daughter's primary school does sports day as mixed in early years so teams win rather than individuals. When they get older and individual events are appropriate they're split into boy/girls and streamed by year group.

She's 8 and it's already apparent that the sporty boys are much faster than their female peers. Splitting by sex really does seem fairest.

Ours are separated from KS2 onwards for the sprinting race. They also do a silly race as well where it isn't only speed that counts, dexterity and concentration are needed. Those are mixed sex.

streamed by year group
They'll have to do it by birthday soon with summer born deferrals. Otherwise the summerborn children in their correct year won't have a chance.

Eh, tbh at our primary school the girls tend to win as the boys don't concentrate and just standing at the starting line scratching their bums, or going off in the wrong direction. The girls are competitive and more focused.

Pre puberty I'm not sure there's a big evidence base for their being a significant difference in performance. We have a mix of genders winning at our sports day.

It does sound like your ds and his friends need some education re sexism with statements like that. I'd wonder if the issue is the attitudes of the kids (and likely the adults) meaning the girls don't expect to be able to do well.

In lower primary I'd say there would be much more likely to be a difference between a September and August child, than a girl and a boy the same age.

@Stompythedinosaur

Pre puberty I'm not sure there's a big evidence base for their being a significant difference in performance. We have a mix of genders winning at our sports day.

It does sound like your ds and his friends need some education re sexism with statements like that. I'd wonder if the issue is the attitudes of the kids (and likely the adults) meaning the girls don't expect to be able to do well.

Perhaps you could re read my op. It was the girls saying this.

Very athletic girls aren't helped by not getting to compete with the boys. Being "beaten by a girl" (at the point where girls may well have a chance eg pre puberty) needs to be normalised.

It shouldn’t be necessary to segregate primary school children until they get to Y5/6. Even then it should only be needed for running races.

If schools choose the games and races they do well, and group the children properly, separate is them when they’re still so young can be avoided.

Ours separate them out for running races yr 3 and above.

Before that IME the girls were as likely to win as the boys. In fact up to yr3 the biggest factor was birth date rather than sex. Most of the winners were autumn/early winter birthdays.

Y5 sports day here, and the fastest 4 were 2 boys and 2 girls. The slowest was a boy.
It's as much about opportunity as anything else at this age. The kids that do well on sports day are (in general) the ones we see at the park, out on their bikes, walking to school, who go to the after school sports clubs that are put on, or do out of school sports at the weekend.

@randomsabreuse

Very athletic girls aren't helped by not getting to compete with the boys. Being "beaten by a girl" (at the point where girls may well have a chance eg pre puberty) needs to be normalised.

I totally agree, I would love this to happen but if it isn't happening as at DS's school and other schools as mentioned by PP then could sex segregated events and joined events be a way to combat this?

I don't really think I necessarily feel strongly about sex segregated events, I just want the girls to feel good about their athletic achievements.

I'd be ultra sad about this. It was what I looked forward to all year, and I think I still have the things they gave as awards (tokens and certificates). If I'd had to race against boys there'd have been no joy in it and I'd have been absolutely thrashed.

'Eh? Sex segregation for six year olds?!! How seriously are you taking this?'

I'm taking girls coming away from a highly anticipated, celebrated school event feeling shit about themselves and like they 'aren't as strong as boys' very seriously actually.

@kowari

I didn't think differences in sports performance emerged until males entered puberty?

Starts before puberty

All the races are separated in to girl/boy at my kids school I can't remember if it's from nursery but I'm pretty sure it is, or was when mine where in nursery.

I thought this too tbh. My DC are year 4, 5 and 6 so older than yours and they still mix sexes which I just don’t think is fair at 10/11.

Should also add that they did a mixed sex teachers race and of course the two big burly men came first and second…

Starts before puberty
What's the reason for it? DS was a small to average sized summerborn child, he usually came last or close to it at sports day.

You are being very unreasonable and perpetuating gender stereotypes - before kids hit puberty the their muscles and strength/speed will be determined by their body shape and height and how active they are, which will have nothing to do with their sex. A tall girl could easily beat a short boy of the same age. You should perhaps first tell your son that girls can be just as fast as boys and if you could suggest to the school that they look at ensuring that the abilities of children are taken into account when organising sports day so kids are not led to believe that boys will always win.

Sounds like a lot of self suggestion of failure (which works very effectively).

I think the best bet at KS1 is to pre seed events (using the many practices) so all of the children have some chance of winning their heat. Call them colours, houses, dinosaurs or whatever.

KS2 needs sex segregation.

The biggest issue is that girls are so strongly socialised to be less physical that they are affected before the physical differences should be manifesting.

My DD was one of the fastest in nursery (only sports day done "normally") despite being about the youngest (August birthday) She won her heats in the running race and sack race and was 2nd in the "final" of the run despite being among the shortest. Missed the sack race final because was bored by then and messing around - issue with being 3 and.a whole school sports day!

This was against girls but she was beating boys as well in practice...

This year (Scottish P1) I think she's had some issues with boys threatened by her speed (she's now taller and in Scotland is mid year as an August birthday). She's been deliberately tripped in the playground and has destroyed many pairs of tights! She was 3rd of the girls, and from what I've seen in the playground the top 3 girls would have beaten the boys... It's a mixed year class but only 1 of the girls from the older part made the top 3 although all are from the taller and slimmer end of the class.

At infant level there it little difference in gender. At juniors it starts to become apparent. As someone who played mixed football until secondary (in the mid 80s when it wasn’t common) I never felt disadvantaged. Boys who underestimated me quickly learned. But once puberty hits the muscle mass impact kicks in.

My DD (year 1) was in mixed events on sports day and the girls were rapid (not my DD, she was pacing herself apparently 😂)