to expect child minder not to slam door in dp face? Please help

[lilymolly]

ok here goes

Usually pay cm on friday morn, but dd was excluded cos of conjuncitivitis.
CM rang on friday to ask after dd and I told her I would drop cash off over the weekend, instead of cheque cos obv could not be checked into the bank.

CM under a lot of personal pressure due to family illness, sons car payments and start of menopause, she had 1 day off last week due to stress, and I was really supportive and me and another mindee bought her some flowers and offered to go for a meal and drink to cheer her up, (this was cancelled by the other mindee and was rearranged for a few weeks time)

Anyway, I totally forgot to send money to her this weeekend, and she sent this text message at 4.30pm

"where is dd childcare fees, i take this as at best as forgetfullness at worst disrespect and insentivitness and i trust that you will not need me to look after dd any more"

I sent dp down with cash for her, he tried to apologise for delay, and told her we had had manic weekend, as dog has just had puppies and was at the vets etc... she told him not to talk about his weekend and that her mil was terminally ill, she had a car to pay for and that she would look for someone elses children to look after as we have no rexpect for her!!!!

I swear down, I have the upmost respect for her and have treated her with so much sensativity, ahe is an excellent cm, and dd is due to go to her care on Tuesday and I dont know what to do.

I have sent a message apologising and asking her to contact me directly but she has ignored me.

I am devastated, I have been in tears all night, I am CONVINCED i have done nothing and this is totally out of the blue, and if she is stressed I am willing to let this go, but need some advice as I don not want to loose her and dont want her treating us like this.

Please Help

Thanks

Crikey, I've come late to this but have to agree with the majority of others and say WHY on earth are you continuing with this woman?

Yes, she has the right to expect to be paid on time. Yes, she has the right to remind you about that if you fail to do so, but to rant and rave at you and bring up all manner of totally irrelevant issues (sorry, but however ill her mother is, it's nothing to do with your payment arrangements) is totally unprofessional.

I agree with whoever said you seem to have overstepped the line between personal and professional relationships. She is not your mate, she should not be off-loading to you about her private life, and tbh I think taking her out for meals and things may be what has confused the issue, and made her feel she can behave in a less than professional way.

It's one thing to crack when someone fails to pay you - but she clearly doesn't even see that she behaved in an inappropriate way - whereas you have acknowledged that you were in the wrong not to pay her on time, she has completely failed to acknowledge that her behaviour was unacceptable.

I could not leave my child in her care - not least because if you forgive this you will have set the tone for the rest of your relationship as being one where she can get away with this level of unreasonable behaviour and you will simply put up with it.

TBH, I would be taking the fact that she has said she doesn't want to care for your DD any more as a god-send - you can walk away from this clearly very unsatisfactory woman without any ill-feeling, and the excuse that it was she who was unable to care for your DD due to personal reasons. Get out while you have the opportunity!

I'm often paid late due to the nature of my work. Annoying yes, but I take it on the chin.
OP didn't 'forget to pay' on Friday. She wasn't there on Friday as her daughter was excluded for being ill.
Owing to illness etc it did slip her mind on Saturday, but she paid instantly - in cash - the minute she was reminded. So the CM suffered no loss at all. In fact, she got her cash faster.
Being rude, sending texts about 'lack of respect' and saying she wouldn't look after her daughter any more was clearly an extreme overreaction.
However, I think calling the OP names for not taking the advice of posters is completely unacceptable. Personally, I would think the CM wants to end the arrangement for various reasons and reluctant childminders tend to be poor childminders. However, the OP doesn't HAVE to take anyone's advice here.

Your childminder has admitted to having problems, personal,cash flow whatever and is not in a stable position to care for children, as speaking from expierence as an ex childminder I had to stop looking after children in my care due to some health problems and I couldn't fully concentrate on caring for the childrens needs, although I enjoyed looking after the children very much my health was suffering, my mindees parents were crying when i had to give them up but i knew it was for the best. However your childminder has cash flow problems and will continue to care for children so that she has earnings and this is clearly wrong your childminder needs to take a break from caring for children until she has her problems sorted, no matter how much stress your childminder was under she was clearly in the wrong and not proffesional at all sending a text mess, what was wrong with her giving you a telephone call to remind you, clearly not stable to care for your daughter at all, I could not send my children to a childminder who i knew had so many problems

Weight of opinion on this thread suggests that you're in the minority with your view of this situation Elizabetth, however strongly you hold it or forcefully you express it.

"where is dd childcare fees, i take this as at best as forgetfullness at worst disrespect and insentivitness and i trust that you will not need me to look after dd any more"

Do you really think that this is appropriate language in response to a first time oversight?

Yes, this quite often happens to me. It is common for self-employed people. And I have never had anyone apologise and rush round to my house with cash! But I still don't throw a text tantrum.

Elizabeth, I may have missed something, but surely if the cm wanted to be paid on the Friday, (and as far as I can see the only reason she wasn't was that she took the decision to exclude Lillymolly's daughter), the correct thing to do would have been to ask for payment on Friday or Saturday morning at the latest, not agree to payment over the weekend.

Elizabeth, the OP has not self-righteously berated the CM or called her a nutter. She has apologised and acknowledged her mistake and timidly suggested that perhaps the CM over-reacted.

"where is dd childcare fees, i take this as at best as forgetfullness at worst disrespect and insentivitness and i trust that you will not need me to look after dd any more"

Is that really a proportionate response to a mistake you don't even know has been made? OK, Lilymolly knows she had forgotten, but the CM didn't - for all she knows, LM might have been intending to drop the money in later, or something unexpected like an accident might have occurred.

As an opening salvo, it doesn't strike me as being reasonable and proportinate. And I doubt if OFSTED would find it acceptable either, tbh.

Poor Lilymolly has apologised time and time again, and cried about it. I don't think she could have grovelled much further, andn to be honest, I think she should stop right now. It was a simple, human mistake, which caused the CM no financial hardship whatsoever, and was rectified immediately. We are none of us perfect. Mistakes happen. Memory lapses occur. There was no malice in LM's action. The CM's response was aggressive and personal.

you are saying things like, you couldnt upset your CM further by adding to her financial stress etc even though she has made it clear there is no love lost in this relationship.

You are putting this CM before your childs welfare, i cannot believe it - you are either deluded or not wanting the hassle of finding someone else. Either way, this is not a good situation for DD, the woman has made it clear she has no respect for you, so how the hell can you trust her to look after your children??

I just hope your DP sees sense and puts his foot down with a firm hand, because my DD would be going to this woman OVER MY DEAD BODY!!!!

You are putting this woman before your child.

You need to find alternative childcare. You said yourself you could be at home. Do it.

You owe it to your child.

Now you are being more than unreasonable you are playing fast and loose with your daughter's well being.

You must have heard about the recent case where a CM was found guilty of manslaughter? She had lots of good references too.

Elizabeth I am a CM and by NO MEANS am I employed by the parent. I am self-employed. The parents of my mindees are NOT my bosses. I make all the decisions in how much I charge and when and how the money should be paid.

Do not belittle our profession by suggesting that we are employed.

Is it demeaning to be employed?

Although I can't say I would consider a childminder and employee...

Oh OK. I see what you mean.

I'm self-employed, like CMs, and often paid late. I usually remind the person, but they are clients, I value their business, so am always very polite. I have paid CMs late in the past, due to pressure of work, they have always been very understanding, never complained, I've always paid generously, so its a mutally respectful arrangement.

I agree with Minum. You treat your clients with respect. If you don't, you forfeit their loyalty and expect to lose them. Reminders are perfectly acceptable - polite reminders. If someone is gratuitously rude to their client, they may well want the client to go elsewhere.

lilymolly - your cm is totally taking the piss.

Please find another cm who can treat you and your daughter with respect.

Being self employed is most certainly not just about national insurance and tax. It is a totally different relationship. If the CM was an employee, which Elizabethh suggests, she would not have the power to say that she would refuse to take the OPs daughter. She is clearly 'firing' the OP. Who is the 'employee' here? Just because you pay someone doesn't make you an employer. I pay the inland revenue, my hairdresser and NCP car parks when I use them. They are not my employees.
I am paid by lots of clients. None of them are my boss.

dd is going to the cm for the next week as normal. I will be observing cm behaviour extremely closely to see of any signs that dd is being put under signs of stress.

Maybe I am making this out to be more than it was. I have asked dp to go through the conversation he had once more, and yes it still seems she was very harsh, but he thinks she had tears in her eyes as she was talking to him.

I have decided that my lack of payment was taken very seriously by her and caused an over reacation on her behalf, which threw me completely and I have reacted equally as over dramatic.

I will give her 1 week to build back a "working" relationship.

I know you all think I am mad, but I pride myself on being a nice kind person who will forgive someone for one mistake, and give them the benefit of the doubt. At least then I know when I go to bed at night, I have been a good person.

Trust me I am not a push over by any means, i work in a high pressure sales job, have reasonable intelligence and consider myself to be a sane logical person, but sometimes get a little emotional about things.

Thanks for ALL the advice.

If any of you are still interested in how I get on (prob not as you all think i am mad or a terrible mother) I will post again.

Thanks LM x

buried in this thread is a very good idea from blu. would you not consider a break? You clearly want to keep her. and you have your reasons for that, which none of us are really in a position to judge. If she really is great, and her behaviour really is truly exceptionsl and down to circumstances it does sound to me like a break - followed by a very careful re-assessment could be the solution. It wouldn't be my solution - I'dbe binning her. But maybe it's one you could consider, rather than just going back?

hi lm, read all the posts, what you should consider is if this cm takes out her frustration on your child. i have seen a couple of incidences with child minder for my friend which were not pleasant, when told said friend she mentioned she was having probs with cm. she removed her dd from cm asap on what i had told her, cm didnt ask for notice etc because she knew she had been caught.

children are an easy target, you should remove yours, do you think there is any good spirit left in this woman after what has happened.

we pay our cm by cheque, a month in advance. As a result of this thread, when I went to pick dd up this afternoon, i took my cheque book, as I suspected that there may be a bill waiting for me. There was. I paid there and then . Even the cm was shocked. She said she has NEVER had anyone pay as fast!

Lillymolly, I hope this all blows over, and you regain a working relationship with this woman. I am much less tolerant than you, and I wouldn't send my dd back to someone who treated me like that.

lilymolloy, I can see exactly where you are coming from and would probably do the same as you.

You obviously have known her well for a long time and you know her reputation in your village, you have seen how she cares for your dd. So you have lots of first hand experience which no one else on this thread has.

If you did not know this childminder so well, I'd be saying you should take your dd away from her.

I think a problem you have is your relationship with her. IME, it's better to keep business and friendship separate. Your CM is right, you are not her friend. You have a business relationship. You have the power to report her to ofsted, be instrumetal in ending her business and not pay her. She has the power to refuse to look after your dd, or look after her badly. With all that at stake, you cannot expect her to be as open with you as a friend would be. It could so easily come across as being unprofessional. TBH, I would not take her out to a meal. I think you could show your support in other ways, but don't put her in a social situation where you expect her to be your friend.

I have had about half a dozen childminders over the years and only with the first one did we have any sort of friendship (she was a neighbour) and that ended in tears. The CM got to see us day to day, and felt she could (as a friend) make comments and judgements on our familyi relationships. In the end she started to interfere far too much and I removed ds just before we finally fell out.

The other thing, I can understand why your CM was so worried about the cheque not turning up. OK you told her you would pay her over the weekend, but as far as she knew, she was still being paid by cheque. As banks close on Sat mornings, any cheque would have taken longer to clear.

She may have had dds leaving her account on tues/wed that suddenly would not have been covered by the cheque she was paying in late, on Monday. And then she'd have been charged bank fees as well. Lots of complications for her!

Also, perhaps she had some sort of temporary overdraft arrangement with the bank and it was dependent on her paying in your cheque on Fri/Sat. Not to mention she might use a cheque cashing service as other posters have already said. She is skint, you do not know what convoluted financial arrangements she had made to keep her head above water. Your late payment could have easily given her a sleepless night of worry. I know you didn't mean to cause her any stress, and she was OTT in her reaction, but as Blu said, it's a time of stress for her, so try not to take it personally (hard, I know)

anyway, that's my take on it, and good luck with this week.