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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To my half siblings shouldn’t get 50% of my parent’s house?

282 replies

reannneeee · 15/07/2021 01:06

Paternal half siblings. They are 20 and 22 years older than me. Their mum joint owns with their stepdad and she was better off after the divorce as he left her the house. Me and my full brother raised in social housing as my mum and dad always struggled for money.

My parents ended up expressing a wish to purchase their property with Right To Buy in my late teens. They had a fair amount saved up but nowhere near enough. The property is in a desirable area and I saw it as a steal to get it with the Right To Buy Discount, so I agreed to save up and then give the money to my parents to use to be able to use Right To Buy. I ended up providing about 75% of the money (it took a good few years and meant I spent bugger all on fun and delayed my own life events) used for it. My full sibling has a learning disability and can’t live independently. The deal between me, my mum and dad was if I helped them to be able to buy the house, once they go I could have it and use 25% of the money on supporting my brother. None of the house is mine legally but we knew it’d benefit me and my brother in future if I helped them buy it now.

This was a few years ago. DF has now decided to write a will, he isn’t ill but wants to in the event of a sudden death. He has decided he’d feel guilty doing the original plan and excluding his older children. He now wants us to have 25% of the house each. He says that my financial support in making it possible for them to buy the house is negated by the fact that they let me live there rent free. I’ve not expressed this to him but I’m quite annoyed. My mum was also the bigger contributor for their portion of the deposit out of the 2 of them. I also know that when they go, all of the care for DB will go on me. I’ve already been told I’ll be his power of attorney, will manage his money etc. My half siblings are significantly older with their own well established lives. Mum is upset as well but doesn’t want to rock the boat.

Aibu to think DF is being unfair?

OP posts:

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/07/2021 10:17

she ONLY paid 75% of the deposit! not the full purchase price

Are we sure about this? The OP kind of suggests both ...

As PPs have said, the key to it all will probably depend on whether there's an evidence trail of what OP put in - also how much it actually was and how it relates to the value of the property now

Either way it does seem she's been dumped on, not least by the expectation that she'll take on her brother's care (which indidentally she's not obliged to do)

If you do choose to become DB's carer, OP, I imagine that could affect your employment capacity? If so you could always tell your DF that you'll be unable to shoulder his care unless he thinks again ... not a very principled thing to do perhaps, but then neither is the way he's behaving

saymynames · 15/07/2021 10:18

He says that my financial support in making it possible for them to buy the house is negated by the fact that they let me live there rent free.

I'd be telling him that it's you that's been letting them live there rent free

Melroses · 15/07/2021 10:18

The op doesn't say how much money is actually involved. Deposit on a council property may not have been that much.

We don't know unless OP tells us.

I do know someone who gave their parents a considerable sum to purchase their council house so in effect owned most of it (I don't know whether in name, or through the parents honouring the debt in the Will). However the sibling was not pleased that they would inherit less house than it was worth and drained the elderly mother's savings.

Ideally, these arrangements would be made legally watertight and above board at the time, but if the OP was young and living in the home at the time, and thinking of the brother, then they are at a disadvantage.

It is hard to work out if they have given a gift, a loan, or part of the house.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 15/07/2021 10:21

@shedofdread

The Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 establishes that children are entitled to provision from their dad's estate. So he wouldn't be able to write them out of the will altogether without a good reason. The law also says that it's reasonable to make different provision for your children.

If your brother has a learning disability and relies on carers, your parents are likely to need a Will with a discretionary trust to prevent his share to stop his benefits.

Practically, if your name wasn't on the tenancy and you contributed the money to buy it with no formal agreement regarding what would happen after he died, I suspect you'll be giving a couple of solicitors major gifts from your parents estate after arguing this one out.

If you're living with your mum and stepdad, you could argue that his gift is leaving you without the means to live.

Your parents need proper legal advice on this and from what you've told us it could be a real mess.

This is a complete misunderstanding of the law in England & Wales, as regards children generally. There is absolutely no barrier to the DF excluding the older half-siblings from the will - this is extremely well-established law in E&W. The OP, because of her residency, and her DB, because of his dependency, are more complicated. The OP needs to speak to an actual solicitor.

With regards to Power of Attorney, no one can have POA for the DB because POA can only be conferred by people who have legal capacity, then lose it. The OP could apply to be her DB's advocate, which carries many of the same responsibilities and powers as POA, but no one can force her to do this.

TestingTestingWonTooFree · 15/07/2021 10:22

If your mum severs their joint tenancy, she can what she likes with her half. It’s not a complete fix, but it stops part of his plan.

Grossly unfair of him given his promise, your reliance on it and your contributions.

There are more legal options, but they are likely to be more difficult. Is he planning to write a will that would have your mum out of her own home on his death?

Cooldryplace · 15/07/2021 10:22

@saymynames

He says that my financial support in making it possible for them to buy the house is negated by the fact that they let me live there rent free.

I'd be telling him that it's you that's been letting them live there rent free

That's blatantly not true though. OP had no right to buy the house, that why it couldn't be done in her name.

IAmWomxxnHearMeRoar · 15/07/2021 10:26

You defo need to take legal advice. I'm a lawyer, although this is not my area at all, so can't help, but don't assume there is nothing there.
My parents gave me money to purchase my first property and the mortgage co insisted on a signed document that this was an advancement of inheritance (ie I didn't owe my parents anything!). Was anything similar done here? Really you should have put your name on the title deeds at the time, but easy to say from hindsight.

Your mum however can do something - she can claim she owns 50% of the house and give it all to you, or in whatever proportion she wants to. Again, she will have to take legal steps, but this is really basic legal stuff and could be done cheaply when she writes her own will. Therefore your Dad can only give half the house as he wants, or an 1/8 to each of his 4 kids.

Also, with respect to your brother, your parents need to set up a trust and leave everything to the trust for him (otherwise it will affect his benefits and other things). As a term of the trust, get it to state that anything left over at the end of his life goes to you, or if you have died, your own kids. My own brother is sadly in the same situation and this is what my parents have done. As I'm sure you are aware those with severe disabilities, even with no health problems, have substantially shorter lives.

Is it worth talking to your 2 older half siblings? Unless they are total bastards, aren't they going to take your side?

Oh, and YANBU!!!

RincewindsHat · 15/07/2021 10:27

Erm, they did NOT "let you live there rent free". You paid for it, or does he not remember where most of the money came from to buy the house? He didn't do you a favour! You did them a massive favour and now he's going back on the arrangement because it all looks different a few years down the line.

YOU enabled them to buy a house they would otherwise have been paying rent on indefinitely because they could not afford to buy it. YOU gave them housing security. YOU made it possible for them to build up value in a property that would otherwise have been forever out of their reach. YOU created this situation they are now in where they even have anything to leave because if you hadn't provided that money, they wouldn't own the house anyway.

Imsofriggingtired · 15/07/2021 10:29

You paid 75% of the deposit?! You should tell him hes lucky you didn't charge him rent the CF

TheRosariojewels · 15/07/2021 10:30

I think it is difficult to judge without knowing all the details. Who has been paying the mortgage? What percentage of the houses value did you contribute? As an example if you contributed say 2k and you’ve lived rent free for 10 years he would have a point. I don’t think it’s fair that his older children would get nothing. I think it is usual that his share would be split between his four children and your mother’s split between her two children.

Thiscantreallybehappening · 15/07/2021 10:30

YANBU but like other posters have said you need proper legal advice. If you have evidence of the amount you paid you might be able to stop this.

I don't understand why you didn't see a lawyer when you gave them the money and get the verbal arrangement sorted out legally so you couldn't be put in this situation. Surely, at that stage it should have been put on the deeds as a part owner?

I understand it was an agreement with your parents and you assumed they would honour it but people and circumstances do change.

What if your parents needed to go into a care home? the house might have been needed to be sold to pay for those costs?

You knew you had half siblings, even if your parents honoured the arrangement, they might have contested it?

You should have got this legally sorted when you gave them the money.

knittingaddict · 15/07/2021 10:31

IT'S 75% OF THE DEPOSIT, NOT 75% OF THE HOUSE.

timeisnotaline · 15/07/2021 10:31

@RincewindsHat

Don’t walk away and let him get away with conveniently forgetting this. You only have a house because I paid for most of it. If I’d bought myself a house I’d bloody well be living there rent free too, that’s what people who buy a house do. How dare you phrase it as if I’m entitled, you’re creating an imaginary universe where you don’t feel like a selfish arse to the child who’s done the most for you and who you are relying on to look after my brother. Newsflash- I need funds to look after him. I spent my funds looking after my selfish ungrateful parents who can piss off and sort out your own plan looking after my brother in the future , he’s your son. You’ve been living rent free after all so should have pots of money to set up a care fund. (You don’t have to mean it about your brother, but you need to get him to see you’re really upset and not going to roll over- if you took it calmly he’d happily kid himself you’re happy with the solution because that lets him feel good about himself.)

timeisnotaline · 15/07/2021 10:32

@knittingaddict

IT'S 75% OF THE DEPOSIT, NOT 75% OF THE HOUSE.

Which she should have ringfenced to own 75% if the house! She’d own 100% of the house if she’d bought herself one instead of her parents.

TheRosariojewels · 15/07/2021 10:33

Also as a Right to buy property, the discount on the purchase price would have been based on how many years your parents have paid rent on the property.

knittingaddict · 15/07/2021 10:34

@Thiscantreallybehappening

YANBU but like other posters have said you need proper legal advice. If you have evidence of the amount you paid you might be able to stop this.

I understand it was an agreement with your parents and you assumed they would honour it but people and circumstances do change.

What if your parents needed to go into a care home? the house might have been needed to be sold to pay for those costs?

You knew you had half siblings, even if your parents honoured the arrangement, they might have contested it?

You should have got this legally sorted when you gave them the money.

They may not have been able to do that at the time because they weren't eligible to buy the council house. The parents would have been the only ones with the right to buy.

Cooldryplace · 15/07/2021 10:34

Why is no one seeing that this was an attempt at a terrible abuse of the system? No wonder there's no suitable housing for those most in need.

Thiscantreallybehappening · 15/07/2021 10:37

@knittingaddict
They may not have been able to do that at the time because they weren't eligible to buy the council house. The parents would have been the only ones with the right to buy.

Well, of course, the OP would have been able protect her investment legally. Even if it was to get the Wills sorted out with a clause about her contribution. There would have been something OP could have done legally to protect herself.

It seems ridiculous that this wasn't sorted out via a lawyer at the time.

catmandont · 15/07/2021 10:38

YANBU as PPs have said! You need legal advice.

I would be particularly offended by the suggestion that you have benefited from living 'rent free' in the house.

It is laughable that the person who paid for the majority of the property has to pay any rent! .... Even more outrageous that the person who contributed the smallest amount would be the one charging it!

mm8989 · 15/07/2021 10:39

Which she should have ringfenced to own 75% if the house! She’d own 100% of the house if she’d bought herself one instead of her parents.
----

What if that deposit was 2K? what if her parents went on to pay 80K off the mortgage? maybe OP wouldn't have got a mortgage? If they had charged her rent, she wouldn't have had the deposit money....

knittingaddict · 15/07/2021 10:39

The op didn't pay any of the mortgage though as they stated rent free. They are only owed what they put in which is 75% of the deposit. Not paying rent allowed them to build up more savings to buy their own home. Money put into a house in which you have no share either by being on the deeds or paying the mortgage or on which their is no legal documentation is money that isn't legally yours any more.

Orf1abc · 15/07/2021 10:40

You abused the RTB scheme so you could increase your inheritance, is that right?

The reason you don't have a legal interest in the property is because you didn't have the right to buy it, only your parents did.

You could argue that they owe you the money you loaned them, but you'd need to document that it was a loan and not a gift.

knittingaddict · 15/07/2021 10:42

@catmandont

YANBU as PPs have said! You need legal advice.

I would be particularly offended by the suggestion that you have benefited from living 'rent free' in the house.

How many times. They did not pay for the majority of the house. They paid 75% of an amount that may be as little as 5% of the valuation if the house. It could be a few thousand.

Gemma2019 · 15/07/2021 10:43

@knittingaddict

IT'S 75% OF THE DEPOSIT, NOT 75% OF THE HOUSE.

I read it as 75% of the actual house - they saved up and bought it with cash. No mortgage is mentioned and the OP says her parents struggled for money.

knittingaddict · 15/07/2021 10:49

My mum was also the bigger contributor for their portion of the deposit out of the 2 of them.

This from the op suggests that we are talking about the deposit here.

The op hasn't been back to give any more info or correct assumptions. Neither do they say what the amount was. I would love to know.

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