To my half siblings shouldn’t get 50% of my parent’s house?

[reannneeee]

Paternal half siblings. They are 20 and 22 years older than me. Their mum joint owns with their stepdad and she was better off after the divorce as he left her the house. Me and my full brother raised in social housing as my mum and dad always struggled for money.

My parents ended up expressing a wish to purchase their property with Right To Buy in my late teens. They had a fair amount saved up but nowhere near enough. The property is in a desirable area and I saw it as a steal to get it with the Right To Buy Discount, so I agreed to save up and then give the money to my parents to use to be able to use Right To Buy. I ended up providing about 75% of the money (it took a good few years and meant I spent bugger all on fun and delayed my own life events) used for it. My full sibling has a learning disability and can’t live independently. The deal between me, my mum and dad was if I helped them to be able to buy the house, once they go I could have it and use 25% of the money on supporting my brother. None of the house is mine legally but we knew it’d benefit me and my brother in future if I helped them buy it now.

This was a few years ago. DF has now decided to write a will, he isn’t ill but wants to in the event of a sudden death. He has decided he’d feel guilty doing the original plan and excluding his older children. He now wants us to have 25% of the house each. He says that my financial support in making it possible for them to buy the house is negated by the fact that they let me live there rent free. I’ve not expressed this to him but I’m quite annoyed. My mum was also the bigger contributor for their portion of the deposit out of the 2 of them. I also know that when they go, all of the care for DB will go on me. I’ve already been told I’ll be his power of attorney, will manage his money etc. My half siblings are significantly older with their own well established lives. Mum is upset as well but doesn’t want to rock the boat.

Aibu to think DF is being unfair?

@Cooldryplace

How much was your 75% compared to the value of the house now?

You tried to run a bit of a scam. You weren't entitled to buy the house, that was your parent's right. You helped them raise the cash, but at most ethically, (in my view) you're only entitled to the repayment of your "loan", not all the profit. The house is theirs.

That's how it seems to me.

@Homemadearmy

It would be more fair for your parents to split your mum's half 50/50 and your dad splits his share 4 ways. As he has 4 children compared to your mother's two. Where does your brother live now?

That's what we've done. Older kids have already inherited a six figure sum from late father so no risk of them losing out, they might be doing alot better if we end up in care but we can't predict that.

Getting back the amount you put in in cash would also be unfair though. It needs to be done in terms of percentage of the house value at the time the contribution was made. E.g. £3,000 provided by OP as 75% of the deposit required of £4,000 in order to get a mortgage to buy at £40,000 20 years ago for a discounted house with an actual market value of £60,000 at the time would be a 5% stake in the property. If OP contributed no further funds towards mortgage payments and the property is now worth £200,000 then OPs share prior to any division of inheritance is £10,000 not the £3,000 originally supplied. If OP gave ongoing contributions as well as deposit then it's more complicated but still possible to calculate (and would then obviously be a bigger share)

(I have made up these numbers to make the maths easier but can redo them with actual numbers if you wish OP)

@honeylulu

Solicitor here (not my area but I know a bit from law college days). From what you have said it seems you are a beneficial owner of a share in the property, despite what the land registry says. This means that the legal owners (your parents) hold your share in trust and should not dispose of it.

I say "should not" because it will be down to you to prove it and that might be tricky without a written agreement, as you understandably trusted your dad to do the right thing/what he had agreed.

I agree that it will be worth spending a bit of money getting legal advice on what to do, unless you feel it is very clear. First, get together all the proof that you can - all evidence of you providing the 75% (bank records etc), any correspondence referring to the agreement etc. Your share can be protected from a future sale or transfer by entering a notice or restriction on the land register BUT if you dad/parents challenge it you will need to provide the evidence. This guide tells you a bit more:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/notices-restrictions-and-the-protection-of-third-party-interests-in-the-register/practice-guide-19-notices-restrictions-and-the-protection-of-third-party-interests-in-the-register

I think your dad has behaved like an utter shit and your mum should challenge him but it sounds like she won't. His excuse "we let you live here for free" is bullshit. Your parents also lived there themselves "for free". You have already paid for the right to live there AND the right to own a fair share beneficially.

Mumsnet is wonderful sometimes. Op, ignore the guesswork, here's your advice

Are you on the deeds?
Did you sign anything when the property was bought - e.g. saying the money you gave was a gift and you have no financial interest in the property.

I think this is totally unfair given that you provided the money for the house purchase.

If you hadn't done that, I would have said your parents should split their halves of the house between their respective children.

But in this case, your older siblings would surely understand that you bought that house, not their dad.

You need to have a frank discussion with him. Sounds like he's rewriting history and forgetting what really happened. Tell him how much you contributed, how much he did.

Why didn't you talk about this at the time?

Your looking after your brother is a separate issue. You don't have to do this if you don't want to. And this needs to be discussed too. Who will pay for it? Where will he live? Will he need carers? Are you expected to fund it?

You might benefit from seeing a solicitor to see where you stand.

But you and your mum need to stand up to your dad, who is acting really badly.

YANBU but I guess the real question is how to resolve it with the least upset possible.

A possible option is saying to your DF that no you won’t accept that, that you understand the emotions involved which is why you think registering an interest with land registry (get legal advice) in the house is the best option. That way you get your agreed share of the house and his estate can be split equally. It’s formalising the reality that he isn’t free to give all the house away because he didn’t own all the house.

He said your financial support in buying the house is negated by the fact he let you live there rent free? If you put 75% of the value down wasn't it you who let them live there rent free?

I'm so happy to hear it's working out for you He sounds lovely!

You need to follow honeylulu's advice.

It's well out of order. Your Dad should be prioritizing your brother who has a learning disability rather than the two other well-established children.

Completely unfair to you. The more I think about it the more outrageous it gets. Who asks their child to stump up the cost of the house (more or less) and then reneges the deal. And you have your brother to look after. What is wrong with people?!

But remember that in the end nobody might end up getting the value of the house if one or both have to pay for care. That is a very real fact and so you may get nothing anyway.

Completely unfair to you. The more I think about it the more outrageous it gets. Who asks their child to stump up the cost of the house (more or less)----
---

she paid 75% of the DEPOSIT not the house, it may have only been 3 K

@burnoutbabe

From my study of resulting and constructive trusts, yes a claim for a share is possible but as lady hale said, often the cost of these things is out of all proportion to the actual amounts at stake.

It's usually cohabiting couples when they split who have this issue when one is not in the deeds. You contributed to the deposit so have a fair shot (Lloyds bank v rossett) but need up prove there was also an intention to share.
You probably need to prove all this before any deaths and get your share noted now. Even the threat of legal action may make him give a share.

(Of course 75% of a low deposit may not be much and dad also contributed the council discount which is counted in these cases as a contribution towards purchase price)

The last paragraph of this post seems like it might be very relevant !

OP, can you give us the numbers. I think they are relevant.

Well your mum is going to have to do her own will and ensure it is different from your dads. Assuming he dies first then it won’t be an issue.

@Cooldryplace

I don't know. I can see you point, but I absolutely hate it when children of council tenants "see a steal" and try to play the system in the expectation that they will inherit much more than they paid for and deprive future generations of much needed housing, so I can have limited sympathy, I'm afraid.

This really. I hate the right to buy scheme because you've taken a house away from a family in need and now you're squabbling over money from it and your parents aren't even dead yet. It's brought out the best in you hasn't it?

You should have had your name put on the deeds, I would have refused point blank to contribute any money towards a house unless my name is on the deeds. Think you are now stuck with whatever your dad decides, and that's down to your mistake.

Even without the issue of the 75% loan and brother's care costs, the house should not be split this way.

Your half siblings will then be inheriting from 3 people: their mum, your dad AND your mum. Whereas you and your brother are only inheriting from two.

The starting point should be: half siblings: 12.5 % each (your dad's share split into 4) and you and your brother 37.5% each.

Are your parents making joint wills? Your mum should also be fighting your corner on this.

Have they paid you any of the money back?

Fairer is your parents own 50% each, you get half of your mums portion (25%) and 25% of your dads portion (12.5%) meaning you get 37.5%

Definitely need to know how much you put in

You should be able to have that removed before the inheritance is shared (Morally at least)

If your half siblings were offered the opportunity to help buy the house and profit from the right-to-buy discount I wonder if they would have done so.

He says that my financial support in making it possible for them to buy the house is negated by the fact that they let me live there rent free

"Rent free" - in a house *you paid 75%% of the purchase price of?!
I am so sorry your generosity has come back to bite you on the arse.
Also, that your contribution was not legally documented.

Also, gobsmacked at how unfair your folks are being.

DF feels guilty about the other siblings? - why? - did they buy him 3/4 of a house?
DM "doesn't want to rock the boat"? What?! the boat that you paid for?!

I agree with you that he has tricked you.
Do you have a paper trail of your payments, or any written agreements at all?

As you used all your money to buy his security, he has now compromised yours. I don;t know how he can live with himself, let alone the DD he has ripped off.

It's also disrepectful & mean toward your DB, who you will be caring for when your parents are no longer here to do so. That money you 'invested' for your parents current security, & your & DB's future security, should not be compromised. I can't belief the selfishness of a man who would watch his own DD working to buy him a house, going without fun or building up her own savings, & effectively steal most of it back from you.

He is putting his wish not to feel 'selfish' to his other 2 kids ahead of all your hard work & sacrifice. He needs an MN Hit Squad!
Your DM is being a wet fucking lettuce too. I cannot believe she will sit passively by & let you be ripped off like this.

Agree with PP about getting this moved to Legal.
Your dad has crapped on you from a great height, & it seems your mum is going to be useless in persuading him to see how unfair he is being to the person who paid for his house.

@ChargingBuck

she ONLY paid 75% of the deposit! not the full purchase price.

Don’t take legal advice from mumsnet, what people feel must be the case, often isn’t.

The only advice I would give (as a lawyer) is get a lawyer! Google “direct access chancery barrister”. This will be the cheapest way to get you the advice you need, but also ironically most likely the most accurate advice.