So embarrassed to be English today

[UpSlyDown]

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

Nope, I'm proud to be associated with the football players of this particular England team and their manager.

Compare this socially aware and passionate team with the brattish, privileged and entitled behaviour of England football players of recent decades. This is what we should be proud of: these young men and their manager. Forget a few thousand thugs - they don't get to represent this country.

You're kidding right? There are hooligans in every football nation, have you ever seen the Roma hooligans in action?

Or the horrible racist abuse Balotelli got.

Or the extreme right wing rhetoric from Lazio fans.

Notice that there weren't any black players in the Italian team. A few Brazilians who had acquired Italian nationality but otherwise, the players were pretty much all 'ethnic' Italians. Britain is a much more diverse country than Italy or so many other European nations.

I think a lot of these hand wringing 'England is the laughing stock of the world' types are very insular and are very uninformed about football and football culture around the world. Like all countries, England has its good points and its bad. To read some posts here, you'd think everywhere else was a veritable Utopia.

@Youdiditanyway

The 36 year old Italian who grabbed a 19 year old by the scruff of his neck and pulled him to the ground is kind of a signal that twats exist in every country. Unbelievably dirty play by the Italians last night, disgraceful actually and definitely a couple deserving of red cards.

The racist trolls on Twitter are of course the most abhorrent of all and I sincerely hope they’re all tracked down, fined, possibly jailed and banned from football matches for life.

A red card should have been given, and it would have been a token towards condemning violence. All violence.

If a player is allowed to behave like that for all to clearly see on pitch and be allowed to carry on playing, what message does that give out?

Exactly - if we’re so insignificant then surely nobody pays us any notice.

These threads are just malevolent and a clarion call for bitter and twisted individuals.

Same. The booing made that match really uncomfortable to watch. And now all the racism?! Disgraceful, shameful and embarrassing.

This isn't a football fan problem, it's a man problem. This is about toxic masculinity and sadly its a worldwide issue.

Yep. This.

Honestly.
England best Denmark, someone posted about what a horrible nation we are.
England lost to Italy, someone posts about what a horrible nation we are.

There are bloody idiots in every nation, but I just don't accept this idea that the English are uniquely awful. I've lived abroad so I have seen other nations at home at first hand.

but it's the constant implication that it only occurs in England that is sickening.

No one has ever implied it only happens in England, BUT there is no denying that it is a problem in England. A problem that it seems you'd rather deflect with whataboutery than actually address.

@scottmichael thank you for saying that! I am English and have lived in Scotland for 20 years and still can't get my head around the anti Englishness up here, especially when it comes to football and the 'anyone but England' attitude. I really, really didn't want to come to work today because of the sarcasm, gloating and general nasty sniping about last night's result and I am supposedly not allowed to be gutted about it either. I would never send Scottish fans negative messages or purposefully support their opponents. It just baffles me how wound up some Scots get about England doing well. They say it's banter, but really it's not.

@Blessex

As for opening up - what the hell else can we do now? Better now than in the winter.

Better to get all population vaccinated before lifting final restrictions.

No, this isn’t the same all around the world, much as people may wish that were the case. Other countries can be more community-oriented, whereas we prioritise individualism here.

Pros and cons to all societies, but I’ve lived in other countries and the sense of entitled belligerence that is a feature of our society that I haven’t encountered in other places. Including Italy.

We have a problem with thuggish behaviour in this country, no use in denying it.

I don’t give a shit what happens in other countries, I just know that, only a decade ago, England was one of the most tolerant countries in the world. It is a shame to see what it has become over the last few years of the Tories exploiting differences for political gains.

I am ashamed and saddened because of what we are losing, that tolerance and multiculturalist, what happens in other countries doesn’t erase that.

Your country, like mine, is just a place where human beings live, and act the way humans being act. Sometimes well, sometimes badly.

There are thugs waiting for an opportunity to watch the world burn in every single country.

Only in this one do the rest of the population use it as a vehicle to dissolve into a puddle of self depreciation at every single turn.

@DotDotDotDot

This isn't a football fan problem, it's a man problem. This is about toxic masculinity and sadly its a worldwide issue.

Yep. This.

Yep!

x 1000

I’m not ashamed to be English, those people don’t represent me. I haven’t asked them to and they haven’t worked to achieve a role whereby they might be ambassadors for this country. These people have took it upon themselves to step outside of the law of the land and actively reject what it means to most people to be English.

(I would also identify as British usually but in the context of the events that’s the heading I come under).

@DottyHarmer

Well, *@Geamhradh* , I am sorry you are experiencing this but it is NOT TRUE OF ALL OF ITALY. I don’t know anyone “barricaded” in their house. And I’ve been speaking to a lot of Italian, Anglo-Italian and English people.

Oh, so because you have spoken to a lot of Italians, the abuse I'm receiving isn't real? Fuck you.

So, do some posters believe all Americans should have been ashamed to be US citizen last year…. but after the inauguration miraculously be proud?

If there were an election here tomorrow and Corbyn made a comeback, would we all be redeemed, including football hooligans? (Although Corbyn was a closet or not so closet Brexiteer so any hopes of rejoining that perfect band of Europeans might be dashed….)

What a previous poster said, racism exists everywhere and it’s disgusting but it’s definitely not just in England. The lack of diversity in the Italian team says all you need to know about opportunities for POC in Italy. The racism of Italian football hooligans is legendary. I have also personally heard unbelievable racism regarding football from a Frenchman in France. This has nothing to do with Brexit or being in or out of Europe. If you think all Europeans are lovely non racist people and it’s just the English, you are totally deluded.

I'm proud to be English.
Idiots like some of the England fans bring shame on themselves, not us.
Such idiots exist in every country, and perhaps we have more than our fair share, but they don't represent England. They represent idiocy.

The best the rest of us can do is continue to call out this shocking behaviour. The fact they use football as a vehicle for their nonsense saddens me, but it's not the fault of football any more than it's the fault of any of us for how they behave.

Society has issues. They are a symptom.

upslydown Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god) I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.
what a nasty uncalled for comment. Do you know that lefties can be just as abhorrent
I don't know any lowlife thugs who attended any football match and nor do I know any who are ignorant enough to use twitter. Thank god - I am a centre right /leaver and proud to be English.

lol Still crying about brexit?You lost just get over it already.

I don't really care what other countries deal with I care about where I live and how it impacts us as a society and how it makes people feel. It isn't like they're personally insulting their football skills, which are top notch btw.Its the insulting of the every person within their racial group because they're upset about the sodding football that turns my stomach. It leaves people feeling sad and isolated when it's not dealt with and acknowledged as being shitty behaviour properly.

@Sakura7

England fans are notorious for their violent behaviour. It is not the same in every country, and to claim that is to make excuses.

Did you see Denmark fans kicking off like that? Or the French, Germans, Swedes, Dutch, Spanish, etc?

Yes some other countries have problems, but the scale of it amongst the England fanbase is something else.

You weren’t watching Euro 2016 then, when the French hooligans caused absolute chaos? (Along with contributions from a number of nations, which yes included England but also people like Germany). Plus there have been real issue with hooligans in France this year (such as in Marseille) and don’t get me started on Italy and the way their fans have been known to behave. Hungary has been punished by UEFA for the level of homophobia in its crowds, but yes let’s single out English fans.

I disgaree the scale of it is worse, in fact domestically I think we see fewer issues than in eg Spain

I agree with PP: I think a lot of these hand wringing 'England is the laughing stock of the world' types are very insular and are very uninformed about football and football culture around the world

No, other people being racist doesn't make me ashamed of being English - why would it?

What does racism have to do with being racist? Don't you think there is racism in all countries?