So embarrassed to be English today

[UpSlyDown]

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

So which nationality would you be proud to be?

@Fernando072020

Ugh this thread has given me rage. "It's not just us. Hooligans are everywhere". So that makes it ok? To just shrug it off. The thuggery, racism and rioting of a substantial number of people? Beating Italian fans lying on the ground. The booing of other teams' national anthems (which btw no other clubs did). The storming of the stadium which again, I don't recall seeing in recent years. Many English fans have behaved disgustingly. Seeing the comments here basically saying "ah well, it happens everywhere" is sickening. So does violence against women, and against black people, and against LGBTQ. But ah well, it happens in other places too, it's not just us, so yabu op. Fuck off.

Yanbu op and I have many friends saying similar today

This ten times with bells on!!!

@walkoflifewoohoo

No, have you seen the state of the Italians and how they trashed their streets etc last night? Not to mention their dirty play.

I'm not proud of a few dickheads spoiling it for the rest but I'd prefer to be English today and I'm not ashamed

Now you realise that bad things only happen in England, don't you, according to the MN mantra.
It happens in every country when there's a football competition, the pearl clutchers need to be in some other countries, South America, former USSR, when they lose to get a perspective. And No, I'm not making excuses etc, just trying to give clarify a few facts.

This minority of predominantly men, who love any excuse to get pissed up and cause chaos at any kind of major event, football or otherwise, because it's easier to hide and be delinquent in a crowd when police and organisations are overwhelmed - do not represent and should not be allowed to in any way, such as in posts like these, represent 'being English' just because they are also in a certain geographical location

One day I hope that the positive messages of our amazing English football team will crowd out the horrible nature of the minority. We should start a thread about what role models every member of our squad was. If I were Italian I would be ashamed how their players acted. And the players are the role models for the kids.

@Crankley

More bullshit by people who appear to be determined to talk down their own country. Do us all a favour and go live somewhere else if you hate England so much.

Exactly. I wish all these critics would fuck off.

Our country would be such a better place without them.

So much I agree with here

Why take on the actions of these men?

I’m proud of the team, Saka, Rashford and Sancho, all players and Southgate and what they represent

Why align yourself with male aggression, racism and violence rather than the good stuff?

And this
It's very trendy to declare how embarrassed you are to be English at the moment so you're right on trend OP. Very earnest of you.

Plus pp on same lines

The 36 year old Italian who grabbed a 19 year old by the scruff of his neck and pulled him to the ground is kind of a signal that twats exist in every country. Unbelievably dirty play by the Italians last night, disgraceful actually and definitely a couple deserving of red cards.

The racist trolls on Twitter are of course the most abhorrent of all and I sincerely hope they’re all tracked down, fined, possibly jailed and banned from football matches for life.

@Geamhradh that sounds awful, hope you are okay and it passes soon.

@Puppysharness

I’m livid with rage at the treatment of Rashford, Sancho and Saka. I just don’t understand men. Would any of these cretins sending them racist abuse like to get onto the pitch and try to give them a run for their money?!

I don’t care about football but I do care about common decency. Especially given how young these 3 are.

Does this happen in other countries? Is it just us?

Spot on.

Particularly when you think of how much Marcus Radford has done for vulnerable children in poverty - and now, he misses a penalty and his imaged is defaced and there is abuse hurled at him and his team-mates.

Absolutely vile behaviour!

England fans are notorious for their violent behaviour. It is not the same in every country, and to claim that is to make excuses.

Did you see Denmark fans kicking off like that? Or the French, Germans, Swedes, Dutch, Spanish, etc?

Yes some other countries have problems, but the scale of it amongst the England fanbase is something else.

My DD walked through that crowd in Trafalgar Square yesterday afternoon on her way home. She said she was catcalled, leered at, saw men unconscious on the street, fighting, setting off smoke bombs. She's 14 by the way and very much looks her age.

This isn't a football fan problem, it's a man problem. This is about toxic masculinity and sadly its a worldwide issue.

Get over yourself. Yes there are horrible scummy people in England, but the vast majority are decent reasonable people.
It’s just not ‘new’ to report on ordinary folks going about their business.

Yobs will be yobs nothing new there. I’m just glad our boys didn’t play dirty like those Italians.

Well, @Geamhradh , I am sorry you are experiencing this but it is NOT TRUE OF ALL OF ITALY. I don’t know anyone “barricaded” in their house. And I’ve been speaking to a lot of Italian, Anglo-Italian and English people.

You need to open your eyes Op and take a look around, I think you are totally deluded to be honest.

@Fernando072020

Ugh this thread has given me rage. "It's not just us. Hooligans are everywhere". So that makes it ok? To just shrug it off. The thuggery, racism and rioting of a substantial number of people? Beating Italian fans lying on the ground. The booing of other teams' national anthems (which btw no other clubs did). The storming of the stadium which again, I don't recall seeing in recent years. Many English fans have behaved disgustingly. Seeing the comments here basically saying "ah well, it happens everywhere" is sickening. So does violence against women, and against black people, and against LGBTQ. But ah well, it happens in other places too, it's not just us, so yabu op. Fuck off.

Yanbu op and I have many friends saying similar today

So pleased you're raging, people like you really can't seen the bigger picture. No-one is condoning racism, thuggery, violence of any kind but it's the constant implication that it only occurs in England that is sickening. Having lived in many countries and seen the outcomes of disappointement expressed I would advice some to get off their high horses, sorry I lack yout lexicon of vulgarities.

@TheGenealogist

Just give over with the "laughing stock" nonsense.

Despite what English people think, the rest of the world has better things to do than spend their time laughing at you.

Honestly, there is a certain contingent of what I would describe as ‘left-leaning liberals’ who are the type to sit and slag of brexit voters, wind them up by calling them things like ‘little Englander’ and making statements about ‘not having an empire anymore’ etc, but these are always the type to be ‘ashamed’ of being British, and ashamed of being the ‘laughing stock’. They’re actually the ones who think the world are obsessed with us, they don’t realise that as you’ve said, most people don’t really give a shit. 🤷‍♀️

Social media is utterly toxic. The police should investigate each and every instance of racist abuse and where possible, prosecute. I would go further than that and say they should be fired from their jobs, have their credit score affected, in some instances even have their children taken into care.

But that’s because of the people they are not because they’re English.

And nobody said that because it happens in other countries that makes it ok, people are being deliberately obtuse.

Saudi Arabia is known for it’s policies on human rights, that of course doesn’t make it ok because it happens in other countries, but do people think that Saudis should be ashamed to be Saudis because of it?

No - I am not embarrassed to be English.

I despair at the 'football fans' who have behaved so badly. They should be embarrassed.

It's not football that is racist, it isn't sport that is racist, it isn't England as a country that is racist . Individual people are.

We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.
By far the majority of English people (who even cared) did respond like rational adults.
The only thing I am sorry about is that we haven't found a way to hold the racists and hooligans to account more.
The actions of some won't make me ashamed to be English, any more than I'd expect Muslims to atone for the actions of a the people who commit acts of terror in their name - its ridiculous.
YA beyond Unreasonable to link in Brexit too, OP.

Have you seen the backlash against the racism? That’s something to be proud of. Many countries turn a blind eye to racial abuse, but many English people have called out the racism for what it is and put out supportive messages to drown out the racism.

Yeah a lot of the fans are vile but the huge majority aren't. England and the UK as a whole is one of those most tolerant and inclusive countries in the entire world.

It's not the fans. It's the firms attached to the clubs. You get them in every country. In Colombia the firms are drug mafia and they shot a guy who let in a goal. In Russia the firms are neo nazis. In Italy the firms have quasi fascist connections. In France the firms are ultra nationalist. Etc etc etc.

The English FA has done a lot of work breaking the links between networks and clubs. A lot more than many other countries. And it is better now than it was in the 1970s, although it's been starting to build up again these last few years.

But it is far from a purely English phenomenon.

I've said that you're being unreasonable because of your silly comment about 'shame of Brexit'. I didn't vote to leave but it was a democratic decision and therefore not a question of 'shame'.

To be quite honest, posts like yours smack of 'being on the winning side', wanting the glory to rub off when things go well but, on the flipside, bleating on endlessly when things go wrong.

I didn't/don't celebrate or cry over football results because either way, it's not my achievement. I am though sometimes quite ashamed to be a human being for several good reasons but I'll add lack of resilience to that list as well because. from what I can see, some people are using pointless activities as a major focus in their lives.

The thuggery and abhorrent behaviour isn't limited to English people, it's across the board and it's not everybody from England or anywhere else.