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So embarrassed to be English today

999 replies

UpSlyDown · 12/07/2021 12:20

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
MarieIVanArkleStinks · 13/07/2021 09:23

Sorry - wrong thread. This IS the 'embarrassed to be English' thread. But there's another variation on the same theme somewhere else.

herecomesthsun · 13/07/2021 09:35

There have also been many touching tributes to Rashford & co

SimonJT · 13/07/2021 09:40

@User135644

England need to be banned from the next Euros as a consequence of the disgraceful behaviour of their fans through this tournament and the lack of security at Wembley to control rampaging mobs.

This has to be the last time England host a male football tournament.

Why should players be punished for the actions of strangers?

I play rugby, our team experience both racism and homophobia from fans of our opponents, why should we be punished for being victims of homophobia and racism? Why should England players be punished for being the victims of crime?

Flaxmeadow · 13/07/2021 09:47

x2boys

&Flaxmeadow*

So much middle class sanctimonious sneering in some of these comments. Accusing the working class of all being racist, of always talking about the war, of being thick uncultured louts. All false bigoted accusations, from positions of privilege. They've probably never even met an average football fan

Indeed it's quite ironic really

And constantly being expected to prove to these bourgeois morality police that we are not racist. Make gestures and signal virtue, pass their test. Do this, say that, display your concern. Bend over you bad little oik

Flaxmeadow · 13/07/2021 09:53

What this thread shows - as does the 'ashamed to be English' one - is that some white people are really, REALLY uncomfortable when it comes to talking about race

How do you know the posters are white? And even they are, can you blame them for being uncomfortable when they're constantly accused of being racist, even denying being racist is enough to be accused of being racist, according to current academia trends imported for the USA

SueSaid · 13/07/2021 09:58

@herecomesthsun

There have also been many touching tributes to Rashford & co
There have, the support and reaction has been fantastic. But nope, people won't recognise and acknowledge that.

There is more that unites this country than divides it 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿.

SimonJT · 13/07/2021 10:00

@herecomesthsun

I think the racists are a small (but embarrassing) minority.
I sadly don’t agree with this.

Racism is a very significant part of our society, people with a non-British sounding name are less likely to be interviewed for a job. People who aren’t white are more likely to be arrested, they’re also more likely to received a more significant punishment compared to white people. We can’t drive nice cars without the worry of being pulled over, if we do get pulled over we can be arrested for having lipbalm in our car.

We’re more likely to be victims of stop and search, I have been stopped and searched multiple times, not a single search has actually been legal. If you are white, how many times have you been stopped and searched by the police? My white husband has never been stopped, my white ex was offered assistance by the police to protect him from me while I was being searched, because you know, brown people are dangerous.

This is just the racism that the police and businesses encourage. You then add in the wonderful general public, the ones who like to shout P, or the ones who wouldn’t date a insert race here (but yeah I’m totally not a racist), the ones who speak loudly and slowly because we’re obviously thick, the ones who beat us up, the ones who ban their sons or daughters from being friends with one of us, or worse for dating one of us. When you walk into a restaurant and they say they’re full, but when your white husband asks the same they suddenly have a table for two, when waiters serve and take orders from all the white people on your table first (a surprisingly common thing).

When the olympics literally bans black athletes from wearing appropriate swimcaps.

When healthcare isn’t designed for you, so you don’t receive appropriate treatment, or you don’t get enough pain relief because black people are tough, or you’re told you’re losing your sight because there is dark pigment at the back of your eye, because the doctor seems to think all humans are white.

Black women are aggressive for merely existing.

Racism is part of daily life. Racism doesn’t have to mean being called an N, or a P or having your head kicked in.

Racist fans sending tweets etc won’t be the only ones who are racist, there will be many many more who hold those views.

Maddiemademe · 13/07/2021 10:08

Racism and xenophobia

Racism is prejudice or hostility towards a person's race, colour, language, nationality, or national or ethnic origin.

(Taken from hate crime reporting)

Something for some to think about.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 13/07/2021 10:18

How do you know the posters are white?

Because the ones I happen to be referring to have said so.

And even they are, can you blame them for being uncomfortable when they're constantly accused of being racist

Yes, if the accusations have any basis in reality. As far as your average citizen is concerned, it can also be helpful to examine your own bias and actually listen to what black people are saying - of course there will be complexities and differences of opinion - rather than trying to 'racesplain' their own experiences to them. Likewise with the whataboutery, and the NAEALT defence. As responses to a serious issue those simply aren't good enough.

even denying being racist is enough to be accused of being racist

Ah. That old chestnut, 'I'm not racist, but ...'

according to current academia trends imported for the USA

The trends which urge people to actively stand up against racism should their own safety not be compromised? Those trends?

The question being, why would you not?

x2boys · 13/07/2021 10:20

@Flaxmeadow

x2boys

&Flaxmeadow*

So much middle class sanctimonious sneering in some of these comments. Accusing the working class of all being racist, of always talking about the war, of being thick uncultured louts. All false bigoted accusations, from positions of privilege. They've probably never even met an average football fan

Indeed it's quite ironic really

And constantly being expected to prove to these bourgeois morality police that we are not racist. Make gestures and signal virtue, pass their test. Do this, say that, display your concern. Bend over you bad little oik

So true and the constant faux hand wringing over it.
CryingAtTheDiscotheque · 13/07/2021 10:31

If you can feel proud of the England team, why can't you also feel shame at the behaviour of the fans? Both are part of our society.

The minimising and distancing on this thread is part of the reason why we continue to have a problem with racism. It is all of our problem and we should all step up to address it, however uncomfortable that might be. As PP said, why wouldn't you want to?

x2boys · 13/07/2021 10:41

@CryingAtTheDiscotheque

If you can feel proud of the England team, why can't you also feel shame at the behaviour of the fans? Both are part of our society.

The minimising and distancing on this thread is part of the reason why we continue to have a problem with racism. It is all of our problem and we should all step up to address it, however uncomfortable that might be. As PP said, why wouldn't you want to?

Whose minimising it just because I'm not starting threads on here and beating my chest doesn't mean I don't abhor racism The racist fans are disgraceful and Gareth Southgate on BBC news said many, not all had been traced abroad What is the point of threads like this what is it actually doing to tackle racism, its all just look at me I hate racism more than anyone else
Clavinova · 13/07/2021 10:42

SimonJT
When you walk into a restaurant and they say they’re full, but when your white husband asks the same they suddenly have a table for two, when waiters serve and take orders from all the white people on your table first (a surprisingly common thing).

The majority of waiters and front of house staff in London are not English - mostly from other European countries in my experience.

MarshaBradyo · 13/07/2021 10:42

If you can feel proud of the England team, why can't you also feel shame at the behaviour of the fans? Both are part of our society.

I don’t feel represented by other people in any way. I do by our national sports teams. And they are proving excellent in many areas not just sport. Good on them.

As for feeling ashamed no. Not for DV as pp put which is males on women. That’s like asking those abused feel ashamed. And no spotlight for racists who want attention. Crawl away and shine a light on the good of the team.

Would support tracing and police action and SM accountability in this society. But feeling ashamed no you can though if you want.

SueSaid · 13/07/2021 10:45

'If you can feel proud of the England team, why can't you also feel shame at the behaviour of the fans? Both are part of our society'

Oh you can, of course feel shame at some of the fans. For someone to start a thread about being 'embarrassed to be English' with others jumping in making sweeping negative generations is xenophobic.

Maybe try being proud of the masses who have being disgusted at the trolling and have supported Rashford, Sancho and Saka.

SueSaid · 13/07/2021 10:46

Generalisations*

HmmmmmmInteresting · 13/07/2021 10:49

I think the racists are a small (but embarrassing) minority.

Incorrect

Secondbellini · 13/07/2021 10:51

‘If you can feel proud of the England team, why can't you also feel shame at the behaviour of the fans? Both are part of our society.’

Because the England team have been selected to represent us and the fans have not. I sometimes find the behaviour of our government embarrassing for the same reason.

FloconDeNeige · 13/07/2021 10:56

I absolutely agree that racism is systemic; in the UK (ALL home nations) and in all other predominantly white nations too. Everyone needs to examine their own biases and it is up to all of us to stand up against it.

It is also wholly unacceptable to hold and promote xenophobic views, including against the English. The cognitive dissonance of some on here who (rightly) condemn racism and then in the same breath cheer on hate of the English, really is something else. You are part of the problem and no better than the racists abusing Rashford et al.

SueSaid · 13/07/2021 11:04

@FloconDeNeige

I absolutely agree that racism is systemic; in the UK (ALL home nations) and in all other predominantly white nations too. Everyone needs to examine their own biases and it is up to all of us to stand up against it.

It is also wholly unacceptable to hold and promote xenophobic views, including against the English. The cognitive dissonance of some on here who (rightly) condemn racism and then in the same breath cheer on hate of the English, really is something else. You are part of the problem and no better than the racists abusing Rashford et al.

Exactly.

Op and other xenophobes with their anti English crap I'm looking at you.

MarshaBradyo · 13/07/2021 11:07

@FloconDeNeige

I absolutely agree that racism is systemic; in the UK (ALL home nations) and in all other predominantly white nations too. Everyone needs to examine their own biases and it is up to all of us to stand up against it.

It is also wholly unacceptable to hold and promote xenophobic views, including against the English. The cognitive dissonance of some on here who (rightly) condemn racism and then in the same breath cheer on hate of the English, really is something else. You are part of the problem and no better than the racists abusing Rashford et al.

Absolutely
CryingAtTheDiscotheque · 13/07/2021 11:22

Well, I see that 68% agree with the OP...

so notwithstanding the many "nothing to do with me/I'm not ashamed/other countries are worse/stop virtue signalling" type comments, I can feel comforted (i) that most of us accept that the problem of racism is something that we (English) should be ashamed of, (ii) that the conduct of the English fans evidences that problem, (iii) that the problem is not limited to the conduct of English football fans, and (iv) that we are all responsible for addressing it.

MarshaBradyo · 13/07/2021 11:23

@CryingAtTheDiscotheque

Well, I see that 68% agree with the OP...

so notwithstanding the many "nothing to do with me/I'm not ashamed/other countries are worse/stop virtue signalling" type comments, I can feel comforted (i) that most of us accept that the problem of racism is something that we (English) should be ashamed of, (ii) that the conduct of the English fans evidences that problem, (iii) that the problem is not limited to the conduct of English football fans, and (iv) that we are all responsible for addressing it.

How will you be addressing it?
CryingAtTheDiscotheque · 13/07/2021 11:25

Today, Marsha, I am addressing it by calling out the minimising and denial on this thread. On other days I have called it out in real life, at some personal cost to myself. And I will continue to do so.

And how will you be addressing it? Or perhaps you don't think you need to?

MarshaBradyo · 13/07/2021 11:26

@CryingAtTheDiscotheque

Today, Marsha, I am addressing it by calling out the minimising and denial on this thread. On other days I have called it out in real life, at some personal cost to myself. And I will continue to do so.

And how will you be addressing it? Or perhaps you don't think you need to?

This thread I see. That’s pretty easy isn’t it. Telling people they are wrong on an mn thread.

What else? How did you address the SM abuse?