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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

So embarrassed to be English today

999 replies

UpSlyDown · 12/07/2021 12:20

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
morepizzapls · 12/07/2021 17:18

[quote Meraas]@morepizzapls so debate that person, why shout down everyone else?[/quote]
You said it isn't happening the other way? And it isn't just one poster who has implied that.

you can be ashamed if you want - it's an odd view though. No one should take on other people's shame when they haven't done anything wron.g

DeedledeDee · 12/07/2021 17:21

Don't be ashamed of being English .The team did really well. There is always some people give a country a bad name.
I'm a Scot and was sad England lost.
It's fine to be proud of your nation.

Meraas · 12/07/2021 17:21

I didn’t say I was ashamed?

I said the shouting down wasn’t happening the other way. By all means debate unsavoury views, like I’ve called out the poster saying a serial killer on the loose is worse than racism.

SlipperyDippery · 12/07/2021 17:22

meraas sorry yes it was someone else, but there have been repeated suggestions on this thread that those talking about the problems elsewhere are minimising or condoning. I’m very clear that isn’t what’s happening with the majority of this thread, and at any rate I’m one of the people who thinks OP is being unreasonable and have definitely called out minimisation where I’ve seen it.

GrandmasCat · 12/07/2021 17:23

Would anybody be interested in signing this petition to ban racists from England football matches for life?
chng.it/XhpZ4wHJcZ

Thekindofwindowsfaceslookinat · 12/07/2021 17:24

secondbellini I was just starting to respond to your earlier post, which raised a couple of interesting points, but then you posted this Both political correctness and racism are widely unpopular, as I am sure you know really so I didn't bother.

This kind of thing knocks a sensible back-and-forth on the head, so I'll forget it.

FootballisgoingtoRome · 12/07/2021 17:25

[quote GrandmasCat]Would anybody be interested in signing this petition to ban racists from England football matches for life?
chng.it/XhpZ4wHJcZ[/quote]
Done thanks for sharing

Sn0tnose · 12/07/2021 17:26

Ah more ad homs. You’re not very good at debate are you? Not the best, no. And I also don’t know what ad homs means. But I do understand the general concept, which seems to be more than you do.

You pretty much said it’s fine to shout people down as they have a view you disagree with.

At least own it..

Yeah, because that’s absolutely what I said 🙄. If you cannot be bothered to read and digest a few short lines then I can’t be bothered to respond to you any further. It’s like bickering with an egg mayonnaise sandwich. Utterly pointless and we’re derailing an interesting thread with some very valid points being made on both sides.

Lemonmelonsun · 12/07/2021 17:31

I have also attached thinking the thuggery on the pitch needs to be addressed, some tackles are hard to judge the outcome, perhaps the guy whose stud boot went into grelish leg couldn't predict that but without a doubt, chelini dragging down saka... Very poor form.. Very poor and very clear outcome when you grab someone like that.

Eastie77 · 12/07/2021 17:32

@FloconDeNeige I lived in France for many years and found the French were absolutely aware of the difference between les Anglais, les Gallois, l'Irlandais, l'Ecossais... When I lived in Paris, England played Scotland there in a rugby game (early 2000 so World Cup I think) and the French and Scottish fans were out mingling together, united in their hatred of the English.

Most countries are fully cognizant of the difference between England and the other home nations and the English are disliked in a way the Welsh and Scottish are not. I find the Irish are universally liked everywhere.

As a Black woman I didn't buy into this 'England united' nonsense for one moment during the Euros. I've seen the sickening abuse Sterling, Rashford and other Black players get week in, week out. They are tolerated as long as they perform for England but when they put a foot wrong the vile racism that lies at the heart of this rotten country comes to the fore.

MarshaBradyo · 12/07/2021 17:33

united in their hatred of the English

Why are people ok with this hatred?

LouiseBelchersBunnyEars · 12/07/2021 17:35

@MarshaBradyo

united in their hatred of the English

Why are people ok with this hatred?

You know, we deserve it because …. You know, Reasons.

Honestly the irony is off the chart 🙄

IcedPurple · 12/07/2021 17:35

[quote GrandmasCat]Would anybody be interested in signing this petition to ban racists from England football matches for life?
chng.it/XhpZ4wHJcZ[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that anyone found to be indulging in racist abuse is removed from the stadium and banned for life. That policy has been in place for years. I do think a lot of people on this thread are unfamiliar with football and the anti racism campaigns which have been going on for years.

Although given that most racist abuse online is anonymous, it's not clear how the authors of that petition belive this policy could be enforced?

Secondbellini · 12/07/2021 17:36

Window, sorry if that came across as glib or unpleasant. I do assume most people know those views are unpopular, but so can see it might have come across in a post as putting someone else down.

IcedPurple · 12/07/2021 17:38

the French and Scottish fans were out mingling together, united in their hatred of the English.

I wonder how you'd feel if someone talked about, say, the Germans and English being united in their hatred of the French, and gloating over their defeat to lowly Switzerland two weeks ago?

And I notice you have nothing to say about racism in France. A black colleague of mine lived there and said the everyday casual racism she encountered was appalling.

Youarestillintherunning · 12/07/2021 17:38

"We" as a nation. By half 9 last night personally I was tucked up in bed. I'm not sure why people have felt the need to jump on me for saying that I'm embarrassed to be British. They are my feelings. I don't understand why anyone is trying to justify the behaviour of the fans last night. I don't feel proud to say that I from Britain because of the behaviour that too many people showed last night. I think it's revealed how racism is bubbling just under the surface. I really don't get why that's a bad thing to say. If you've taken offence to me saying that I'm embarrassed to be British, I'm ever so sorry but I think that's your own issues, and you're perfectly entitled to feel however you do, as am I.

FootballisgoingtoRome · 12/07/2021 17:42

@Youarestillintherunning

"We" as a nation. By half 9 last night personally I was tucked up in bed. I'm not sure why people have felt the need to jump on me for saying that I'm embarrassed to be British. They are my feelings. I don't understand why anyone is trying to justify the behaviour of the fans last night. I don't feel proud to say that I from Britain because of the behaviour that too many people showed last night. I think it's revealed how racism is bubbling just under the surface. I really don't get why that's a bad thing to say. If you've taken offence to me saying that I'm embarrassed to be British, I'm ever so sorry but I think that's your own issues, and you're perfectly entitled to feel however you do, as am I.
I don’t think you seem to know the difference between England and the UK . It was English fans who were out misbehaving last night don’t lump the other counties in with them please.
FrippEnos · 12/07/2021 17:43

What is funny about this is that football has been harbouring racists, thugs, partner beaters and rapists for years.

Yet its only (apparently) now that so many people have seen the light.

Football fans and teams have deified poor behaviour from their "heros" for years.

Ched Evans anyone. (just to begin with)

TrickyD · 12/07/2021 17:45

No need to be embarrassed to be English. You are obviously not a member of the thick racist scum known as football supporters.

Geamhradh · 12/07/2021 17:47

@Blessex

I am so proud of our team of lions and choose to focus on them and their values today. Read this on social media and 100% agree.

This is England.

This is England: Raheem Sterling, whose big sister would go with him to training and back every day, three buses each way, and never once complained. Raheem Sterling, who called the day he bought his mum a house ‘the best day of my life.’

This is England: Jordan Henderson, who spent most of the first lockdown last year organising the other 19 Premiership captains to help raise money for the NHS.

This is England: Marcus Rashford, who secured free school meals for vulnerable kids during school holidays after the government had refused to extend the programme. Marcus Rashford, who lives by the words of his mother Melanie: ‘take pride in knowing that your struggle will play the biggest role in your purpose.’

This is England: Mason Mount, who gave the shirt he’d worn in the semi-final victory over Denmark to a 10-year-old girl called Belle in the crowd, and in doing her made her smile a smile so incandescent it could melt the Siberian permafrost.

This is England: Tyrone Mings, who spent part of his childhood in a homeless shelter, who played non-league football while working as a barman and mortgage advisor, and who tells kids at the coaching camps he runs that the game is nothing unless they enjoy it. Tyrone Mings, who was taunted with monkey chants on his England debut against Bulgaria and didn’t pretend he hadn’t heard, who turned to the assistant referee and said, firmly but without aggression, ‘did you hear that?’ As in: we’ve got a problem here, you’re part of the officiating team, so this is your problem too and I’m not going to let you duck it, because though this was the most important match of his life there were some things which were more important still than that.

This is England: Luke Shaw, who when playing for Southampton watched Liverpool players file unseeingly past two small boys waiting for their autographs, and who went over and said ‘I know I don’t play for your team, but will I do?’ and posed for a photo with them which they will never forget.

This is England: Declan Rice, who would play cage football in New Malden every day after school and all day on Saturdays, not because he was the best but because he wasn’t.

This is England: Bukayo Saka, who got As and A*s in his GCSEs because his parents insisted that he work as hard inside the classroom as he did on the pitch. Bukayo Saka, whose Christian name in Yoruba means ‘adds to happiness.’

This is England: Kieran Trippier, who still speaks regularly to his old teachers at Woodhey High School in Bury because they looked out for him and his brothers. Kieran Trippier, who every day has cause to reflect on the truth of the inscription by the school gates: ‘where dreams may grow.’

This is England: Kalvin Phillips, whose mum worked two jobs while his dad was in and out of prison. One of those jobs was at Harpo’s Pizzas, where you can now order the Kalvin’s Special.

This is England: Gareth Southgate, who until recently was most famous for missing a penalty he had the balls to volunteer for even though he’d never taken one before, because he knew what Teddy Roosevelt meant when he talked about the man in the arena.

These, too, are England: an incompetent government and an ineffectual opposition; a system which rewards the venal, the vainglorious and the mendacious; tribes which assume the worst of each other and snipe over Brexit, lockdown and masks; public services creaking under the strain of decades of underfunding; kids getting stabbed and women getting attacked; morons who boo the opponents’ national anthems and shine laser pens at their goalkeepers; and so very, very much more. These too are England, and they will still be so next week, next month and next year.

But, if only for today, there is an England of Raheem Sterling and Jordan Henderson, of Marcus Rashford and Mason Mount, of Tyrone Mings and Luke Shaw, of Declan Rice and Bukayo Saka, of Kieran Trippier and Kalvin Phillips, and of Gareth Southgate. If only for today, this is my England. You choose yours.

Star
Youarestillintherunning · 12/07/2021 17:47

@Footballisgoingtorome, then please allow me to substitute British for English. Im very sorry if that offended you. I really don't understand why everyone is feeling the need to jump on every single one of my comments and have a go, the op asked if anyone else is feeling the same, and I am. I haven't been rude or nasty to anyone

FootballisgoingtoRome · 12/07/2021 17:48
  • countries
chaosrabbitland · 12/07/2021 17:49

yes i feel the same p[ , i was born in north america and my mother who is not english either brought me to england when i was 2 , i used to feel proud to be english ,but that feeling has gradually gone and now i just feel embarressed to say i am , its everything you have mentioned in your post and more , brexit was the start of it for me , it made us look like a bunch of whinging complainers . its a disaster , we havent come out well at all , its no wonder we are the laughing stock of europe , im concious we are not thought well of at all

although there are hundreds of english tourists who go to spain and greece each year , i well remember the articles in the paper along with pictures of our young english in the resorts , drinking themselves sick before throwing up in the streets and screwing each other in the streets as well , what the hell do the local spanish and greeks think ?

our education system is lacking . the wondrous nhs desperatly needs reform .

i dont spend my time wondering what my life would have been like had my mother not brought me here because then i wouldnt have my lovely daughter , but the country im from is ranked in the top ten of best to live , its got its problems like any other , but i have been back and it doesnt even begin to compare to here , if i won the lottery id seriously consider moving back there .

Eastie77 · 12/07/2021 17:51

@IcedPurple

the French and Scottish fans were out mingling together, united in their hatred of the English.

I wonder how you'd feel if someone talked about, say, the Germans and English being united in their hatred of the French, and gloating over their defeat to lowly Switzerland two weeks ago?

And I notice you have nothing to say about racism in France. A black colleague of mine lived there and said the everyday casual racism she encountered was appalling.

@IcedPurple I'm simply reporting what I saw. My post was in response to someone saying people overseas do not understand the difference between England and other Home Nations. In my experience they do and many European nations will side with and find common cause with Scotland/Wales/Ireland against England. Sorry if that upsets you but it is what it is.

I wouldn't particularly care if someone talked about the Germans and English being united in their hatred of the French Confused

I had nothing to say about racism in France because that isn't the topic of this thread. Since you mention it, yes there is a lot of casual racism there - just as there is in England. I'm sure your Black colleague encountered instances of this. I don't understand your point. I can't mention racism in England because it occurs in other countries as well?

FootballisgoingtoRome · 12/07/2021 17:53

[quote Youarestillintherunning]@Footballisgoingtorome, then please allow me to substitute British for English. Im very sorry if that offended you. I really don't understand why everyone is feeling the need to jump on every single one of my comments and have a go, the op asked if anyone else is feeling the same, and I am. I haven't been rude or nasty to anyone[/quote]
I wasn’t jumping on you sorry if you thought that. I too am feeling embarrassed to be English so you are not alone.

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