So embarrassed to be English today

[UpSlyDown]

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

No I don’t feel ashamed for other peoples reckless behaviour. For every reckless person, there will be many respectful ones that outnumber those.

I feel neither proud nor embarrassed by a group of people's thuggish actions whose only link to me is that by coincidence we were born in the same country.

@FootballisgoingtoRome who exactly is saying it doesn't matter? The thread is about whether you are embarrassed to be English, my answer is no because those people are nothing to do with me. Not that it doesn't matter.

Ugh, my social media feed is full of vile nationalist abuse this morning.

Perhaps you need to reconsider who you follow on social media then.

Yes the scenes coming out are horrific. But if you don’t know according to this thread it doesn’t really matter and things are worse in other countries. So English fans get a free pass to act as they please.

Nobody has said this. Im just trying to have an intelligent look at why this happens and when you do that, you realise that ‘Englishness’ has nothing to do with it. Nationalistic sentiment + alcohol + male violence + racism = what we’ve witnessed last night. This happens in many countries with football. So I’m not ‘ashamed’ of England. I’m angry and disgusted and frightened, but I’m not ashamed. Shame on those who behave like this.

All this “I’m embarrassed to be English” is just virtue signalling bullshit.
this
plus all the 'well it's men, isn't it'. I watched it with men, and talked about it with men. Why is there such a thirst to tar whole sections of the population because of their sex, or how they voted on Brexit. It shows the narrow-minded Liberals on MN for what they are. Bigots.

@Dongdingdong - I don't think it is tbh. I think there is an element of end of term/self-isolation hysteria taking hold! Can't say I blame them really- as rebellions go it's pretty tame (and I dare say a couple of the teachers would join in if they could).

That's why some people don't label themself as coming from a particular country.
Just be you, where you come from isn't important so doesn't need to be labelled.
Which country is it who shoot their footballers who don't do well?

@Rapskallion

Thuggish behaviour inside Wembley last night.

There is a problem with a significant minority of English football fans and as long as they can hide behind people spouting 'whataboutery' it will never be resolved. I wonder how many of those saying it's worse in Italy would be happy to travel with their DC in a train compartment with English football fans.

and my Social Media feeds are full of people applauding what the English team did and deploring the racism. But then I'm a bit picky about who I follow.

@MaMaLa321

All this “I’m embarrassed to be English” is just virtue signalling bullshit. this plus all the 'well it's men, isn't it'. I watched it with men, and talked about it with men. Why is there such a thirst to tar whole sections of the population because of their sex, or how they voted on Brexit. It shows the narrow-minded Liberals on MN for what they are. Bigots.

It’s only a section of men you are right.

But there’s no way I’m going with the ashamed part.

It is virtue signalling and bigotry in some cases.

@NursePye fair enough!

@Dongdingdong

Ugh, my social media feed is full of vile nationalist abuse this morning.

Perhaps you need to reconsider who you follow on social media then.

Exactly stop following it

I feel glad I’m not English.

plus, there were no black players on the pitch on the Spain/Italy match, or in the Italian team last night. Why not?

@MaMaLa321

All this “I’m embarrassed to be English” is just virtue signalling bullshit. this plus all the 'well it's men, isn't it'. I watched it with men, and talked about it with men. Why is there such a thirst to tar whole sections of the population because of their sex, or how they voted on Brexit. It shows the narrow-minded Liberals on MN for what they are. Bigots.

It is men, its not being a bigot to say that the vast vast vast majority of those embroiled in fights and general mayhem were men, it's reality.

[quote Tavannach]**@Rapskallion

Thuggish behaviour inside Wembley last night.

There is a problem with a significant minority of English football fans and as long as they can hide behind people spouting 'whataboutery' it will never be resolved. I wonder how many of those saying it's worse in Italy would be happy to travel with their DC in a train compartment with English football fans.[/quote]
That video sickened me to my stomach . It shouldn’t be hard to track all those hooligans down you can see most of their faces. I hope the police are on it already .

@Cam22

I feel glad I’m not English.

I wonder if people would be ok with this said about other nationalities due to the actions of a minority

plus all the 'well it's men, isn't it'. I watched it with men, and talked about it with men. Why is there such a thirst to tar whole sections of the population because of their sex

Because it is men! 93% of murders are carried out by men, and I didn't see any women acting in a thuggish way on the videos people were putting on social media.

We're not saying it's all men, but it is men. Not women.

I wonder if people would be ok with this said about other nationalities due to the actions of a minority

Of course they wouldn't. It's racism or xenophobia when its said about anyone else, but it's fine to slag off the British or English.

There was bad behaviour before every match, but it was off the scale when England were playing.

Cos people have done such a good job of perpetuating the myth that the English are done kind of super hooligans

They used to be, like 40 years ago, but other European ultras and casuals, in particular Italy, put the current English scene in the shade

YABU. Do you think all Muslims should be ashamed because of of a few Islamic terrorists?

Do you think all Germans should be ashamed because of the Nazis?
If not, why should the English?

The online trolls are mostly foreign. Southgate actually said it.
They are a minority of dickheads and are the same the world over. Stop putting your country down.

I wonder how many of those saying it's worse in Italy would be happy to travel with their DC in a train compartment with English football fans

I have no idea what it's like in Italy but no, I wouldn't travel with male English football fans because a subset of them are thuggish, loutish, drunken oafs.

@Willyoujustbequiet

YABU. Do you think all Muslims should be ashamed because of of a few Islamic terrorists?

Do you think all Germans should be ashamed because of the Nazis?
If not, why should the English?

The online trolls are mostly foreign. Southgate actually said it.
They are a minority of dickheads and are the same the world over. Stop putting your country down.

Stop trying to defend the indefensible with whataboutery

I didn’t see that@Tavannach. It’s shocking.

But it’s not ‘whataboutery’ to question why this sort of thing happens at football. And it’s not just English football. It’s missing the point to assign this behaviour to one nation of fans.

Full disclosure - I’m an Ireland fan first and foremost, but I go to England with my husband, who is black British. Things have got a lot better, trust me. There are still racists and thugs about, for sure. But they don’t have the free reign they once had.

There are still a vocal minority who shout ‘No Surrender’ during the national anthem at England games. There is a vocal minority who boo players taking the knee.

But why the fuck should be and my husband feel any shame on their behalf. They are a dying breed as more and more more people like me and my husband follow the team.

I think clubs should get much tougher on banning fans who behave like this, authorities should issue much bigger fines and more match bans to clubs who don’t stamp down on it and I think social media companies and the government should do more to tackle in-line abuse.

But I don’t think me tweeting that I feel ashamed to be English is an effective way of making any change.