So embarrassed to be English today

[UpSlyDown]

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

I'd be ashamed to be Italian tbh all that desperate shirt grabbing and pushing. A win is a win but even so.

@Waxonwaxoff0

I don't feel ashamed to be English, no. I find that attitude weird. I don't have anything in common with those people and their actions are nothing to do with me so why would I feel ashamed?

People act like England is the only country with terrible people in it. All countries have a small subset of the population that ruin it for everyone.

I also find the concept of being 'ashamed' of people just because they happen to hold the same passport as you, to be quite odd.

Same with being 'proud' to be British (or any other nationality). The success of a footballer or tennis player or whatever has nothing to do with you. So how can you be 'proud'?

I'm Mexican-American so I watch football from Latin America and yes, there is racism amongst them too.

Here's a story for you to read:

www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/2014/11/04/ronaldinho-abuse-reveals-soccer-racism-in-mexico/18465159/

@MarshaBradyo

Catch yourselves on English people

Apart from the irritating phrasing why should everyone who is English be accountable? Do women always have to take on board the actions of the thuggery etc of men?

The expression ''Catch yourself on" was made famous by 'Derry Girls'.

If that's the poster's neck of the woods, then maybe she could find mindless violence, prejudice and thuggery a wee bit closer to home.

@Dragongirl10 it's definitely got better, and the fa has worked incredibly hard on this.

The men involved aren't fans, never really were fans. I'd say they were more like mercenaries - they want to fight and the club banner (like a flag for a mercenary in a warzone) gives them a reason for it.

Sure, they'll fight for one club (or, for the national team) but that's territorial, not loyalty iyswim. It's a different mentality from fandom. Which yes can be ribald and blunt but isn't violent.

I assume people feel pride in their country in the same way they feel proud of their family.

It is about a sense of belonging and shared endeavour.

I would say I love my country and my family, rather than I am proud of them.

However, being English isn’t the problem. Football violence and racism in almost every Eastern European and Balkan country, France, Italy can be much, much worse. I mean, on a scale I’ve never seen from England fans away, or in this country. Hideous far right elements exist in every European country and latch on to football as an outlet. That’s not an excuse for England, it’s just a fact.

Agree. A close male friend of mine went to watch Madrid v Barcelona in Madrid a while ago his report of what went on was hair raising - full on far right nazi factions in the crowd who openly still support Franco's policies, pigs heads thrown on the pitch, live chickens having their throats slit outside the ground, riot police everywhere, he said the hatred was palpable, he felt decidedly unsafe.

YABU.

I’d be embarrassed to be English because of the racism and the booing during others’ national anthems. I wouldn’t be embarrassed due to Freedom Day (sensible in my view) and Brexit (didn’t vote for it, hate it but we live in a democracy and it’s how democracy works)

(I’m not British)

@pinkcircustop

YABU. I’m proud to be English.

This isn’t an English thing - it’s worldwide. Take the dirty play from the Italians, for example, grabbing a young smaller kid by the scruff of the neck and throwing him backwards. That would make me ashamed.

‘A younger, smaller kid!?’ It’s not the school playground. He committed a foul, the age/size is irrelevant !

@JaniieJones

I'd be ashamed to be Italian tbh all that desperate shirt grabbing and pushing. A win is a win but even so.

Are you also ashamed to be English after all the Penalty that got England through to the final was a dive.

Well said @Waxonwaxoff0

Instead of being ashamed of a few tossers on SM (who may or may not be English) we should be rightly proud of the players- it's them are representing us. Let's shout about this instead.

PS We should also be proud/amused/embarrassed (according to DD) that so many boys in her school have had the 'Foden' hair!! She was saying that if we won DH had to get it done (so a v small part of me was relieved )

By the way the Italian football fans are hideously racist. Mario Balotelli suffered extreme racism and nothing much was done about it.

Don't be silly OP. Yes there's a small minority who have behaved despicably, but I don't see how that makes you embarrassed to be English, unless you genuinely think they represent the country as a whole - which they clearly do not.

After seeing video of Palermo last night and my friend putting on Facebook that she was too scared to go outside, I don't think we are alone in our yobbish behaviour sadly

PS We should also be proud/amused/embarrassed (according to DD) that so many boys in her school have had the 'Foden' hair!!

I'm surprised dying your hair bright yellow is allowed in school!

@JaniieJones

I'd be ashamed to be Italian tbh all that desperate shirt grabbing and pushing. A win is a win but even so.

England team played with integrity, didn't physical pull anyone to the ground by the back of their clothes at a crucial point of the game, didn't win by thuggery. At least the ref got the result he was after though.

Football fans - yes, once again a bit of an embarrassment, but not a uniquely English problem by any means.

Writing from Belgium. Romelu Lukaku observed a while ago that he is called Belgian when he scores for the national team and African when he misses. Racism is not an English specialty.

Losing your shit completely when drunk is, to an extent, and it makes the expressions of racism worse. Just my guess.

Catch yourselves on English people - shout loudly that you are ashamed - stop making excuses about other nations because they just are not as bad as the English thugs’ behaviour was yesterday. I would add that though I’m not English, I’ve lived here for a long time and was supporting England throughout the tournament. I’m disgusted by their behaviour and some of the weak excuses being made here

Plenty of people are saying they are ashamed, have you seen anyone on social media or heard them in real life saying yeah I think the way some behaved was awesome, really great and really proud of them? Thousands on thousands of posts on social media alone calling them out, the media, politicians, celebrities being very vocal, not sure what parallel world you live in!

England team played with integrity, didn't physical pull anyone to the ground by the back of their clothes at a crucial point of the game, didn't win by thuggery.

Quite. The Italian player who pulled Saka's top should have got a red card IMO.

Not ashamed of any of it (it wasn't me, so why would I be ashamed?). Disappointed and somewhat sickened that large groups of people cannot behave appropriately for a sporting fixture. England supporters do have a reputation for thuggish behaviour, and generally refusing to control themselves.

This is a prime example of that behaviour (see clip in the article). www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57803366 First, the claim was that no one got in, then that "only a tiny minority" got in. That was a very large group, with scores of people in it.

Or this: twitter.com/Urban_Pictures?s=09&fbclid=IwAR3t4TiZNvQVgVL51zdto4SvWtuH4I3swuKB-7_YUMQ5iyRxW2orQxLEEFk

They are the people who should be experiencing shame and embarrassment today. Not those of us who would never behave like that.

I must confess, though, that our personal experience of football supporters is that they are utterly lacking in self-control. The one time we made the mistake of driving past the local stadium after a match, there were supporters all over the road. The pavements are wide, but there were people walking in the middle of the road anyway. They were smacking and thumping vehicles whose drivers were trying to navigate through that crowd (at snail's pace, given all the idiots in the road). Since then, we actively avoid going anywhere near any place with a football match on. We shouldn't *have to.

We've been segregated away from football supporters on trains, because the transport police were expecting the trains from a certain time to be loaded with supporters. Again, we had no idea there was a match on, but one shouldn't have to check these things.

The police were checking everyone who made their way to the trains, and anyone *not a football supporter was kept at one end of the train, with football supporters at the other. The police actually said, "We're expecting lots of football supporters on the trains now, so we're segregating everyone, because football supporters tend to be not very nice people."

It's utter rubbish that business owners have to put up boarding and riot protection just because football supporters are expected in their town, and it's worse that England supporters have a terrible, but earned reputation for being violent and thuggish. There's no point saying, "They're not real fans/supporters." They usually are. The only difference is that they think it's totally acceptable to behave like that. Sadly, we know that our experiences of football supporters are rather more common than they should be.

@annacondom

The scenes from the Trafalgar Square fanzone and nearby Leicester Square when people tried to gatecrash were on Twitter this morning. Crowds of drunken yobs breaking down barriers, fighting with the police and a sea of litter. Yes, I'm ashamed and angry, and that was before I heard about the (inevitable) racism.

Yes the scenes coming out are horrific. But if you don’t know according to this thread it doesn’t really matter and things are worse in other countries. So English fans get a free pass to act as they please.

I love reading all the defensive responses.

#NAEALT 🤣

Or maybe he left his red card at home

I was watching a video of 1966 not long ago. Forgotten it was in black and white. The players seemed much skinnier. And the men in the crowd all had hair. But the most striking difference was how friendly and civil the fans were. Only 21 years after the war ended. Many of them must have lost friends or family? Many must have fought even. That same war these idiots can't remember and never shut up about. Still , there is a thing called English culture and its not the property of a relative minority of drunken fools and racists.

@MrsJuliaGulia

By the way the Italian football fans are hideously racist. Mario Balotelli suffered extreme racism and nothing much was done about it.

Yes, not to mention Moise Kean

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/47808611.amp

He was racially abused and his own team mate - Leonardo Bonucci who scored for Italy yesterday basically said he had helped bring it on himself, as did sections of the Italian media.