So embarrassed to be English today

[UpSlyDown]

Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

Of all the reasons to leave MN this seems one of the most compelling. Unless you have masochistic tendencies.

MN has turned into a platform for wilful misinterpretation and acceptable lecturing by anonymous PPs about the downright evil of the English.

I'm not even a football fan, but when my 15yr old DD, who both plays and watches football with passion, and who like so many others of her age, have had a truly shit year, feels ashamed of having been born in a country, something has gone wrong.

A young, talented and racially diverse team of men have put their heart and soul on the pitch and given so many people a few much needed weeks of joy and hope . But the same old miserable and bitter ABE posters can't let us have that can they? Because we might get above ourselves.

Well - to all you lovely fellow English posters, solidarity and commiserations. Let's put the kettle on ...

@Secondbellini

‘I didn't say that, I said instead of wasting energy pointing out what everyone else does we focus on how we can change it.’

I don’t know how to reduce racism; it seems like a complex problem that many very intelligent people are struggling to come up with an answer too.

It probably isn’t going to be solved by starting internet threads suggesting people of a particular ethnicity should be ashamed of themselves for being that ethnicity.

I also love being English. We have amazing sports, art, literature, theatre, landscapes, architecture and music.

I haven't said that the English should be ashamed of being English, in fact I have pointed out that we have the same problem in Scotland

What I have said that there is a lot of "what about" on this thread

I guess there are violent men all over the world.

Do all Muslims feel ashamed by the action of Muslim terrorists? Do you judge them all the same way as you are judging the English?

Obviously not all men are like this, but the violence seems to come from men. So the issue seems to be male violence TBH.

@Scrumbleton

YANBU- Im sorry but there is a reason why the English are unpopular with other nations - populism, racism, boorish drunkenness, thugggery, bad sportsmanship. Most English people are lovely. Rugby fans are amazing. It’s the football that particularly brings it out. I said to DD to remember that it’s a minority but she travelled through London yesterday and said the vast majority of fans were completely out of control and behaving like animals - she had a bottle thrown at her when she got off the tube. Catch yourselves on English people - shout loudly that you are ashamed - stop making excuses about other nations because they just are not as bad as the English thugs’ behaviour was yesterday. I would add that though I’m not English, I’ve lived here for a long time and was supporting England throughout the tournament. I’m disgusted by their behaviour and some of the weak excuses being made here.

www.reuters.com/world/europe/one-dead-several-injured-during-italy-euro-2020-celebrations-2021-07-12/

What did England do that was worse than this? And that’s just from yesterday. If you want to open it up into domestic football, I don’t think England has anything like the problems in its European counterparts.

I am horrified by the thugs in football. I honestly am. But this suggestion on Mumsnet that everyone hates England (not in the European nations I’ve lived in, they don’t) or that England is a world leader in hooliganism these days is bullshit.

@PlacidPenelope

I agree Mistress I don't like the booing of national anthems at all I 'm just sick of the trope that is regularly trotted out on here that is only the English fans who do it.

placid Penelope oh I agree it's not just the English.

Football as a sport has lost its way, it has systemic problems with

Racism
Xenophobia
Links to domestic violence
Male Violence
Over consumption of Alcohol

The football associations across the globe really need to sort it out! Bans need to be given out like smarties and a child's birthday party for any of the above behaviour and criminal action.

I'm not sure how they can solve it now, it's become endemic globally that, that is football culture for the minority of fans. And it's unacceptable.

Maybe England could change their national sport to curling or something 🤣 just kidding.

I was in the local pub full of staunch football fans and they behaved amazingly. The atmosphere was incredible and although there were some tears shed at the end by some usually tough blokes, i wouldn't have wanted to have watched it with anyone else and I'm certainly not embarrassed to be English today.
We always hear about the small faction of troublemakers but everyone decent condemns their behaviour.

Absolutely agree, OP. We're a complete embarrassment. I pass as non-British due to a number of reasons and it's very interesting how people in other countries see and talk about the English when they don't realise I am one! Mortifying really, as they're not wrong either. I usually explain I'm English and then agree and apologise! And hope to goodness that by the time we part company they realise that how we present to the world as a country isn't reflective of ALL the people.

‘I haven't said that the English should be ashamed of being English, in fact I have pointed out that we have the same problem in Scotland’

Nobody said you did. You aren’t the OP and didn’t start the thread.

The scenes from the Trafalgar Square fanzone and nearby Leicester Square when people tried to gatecrash were on Twitter this morning. Crowds of drunken yobs breaking down barriers, fighting with the police and a sea of litter. Yes, I'm ashamed and angry, and that was before I heard about the (inevitable) racism.

@Scrumbleton

YANBU- Im sorry but there is a reason why the English are unpopular with other nations - populism, racism, boorish drunkenness, thugggery, bad sportsmanship. Most English people are lovely. Rugby fans are amazing. It’s the football that particularly brings it out. I said to DD to remember that it’s a minority but she travelled through London yesterday and said the vast majority of fans were completely out of control and behaving like animals - she had a bottle thrown at her when she got off the tube. Catch yourselves on English people - shout loudly that you are ashamed - stop making excuses about other nations because they just are not as bad as the English thugs’ behaviour was yesterday. I would add that though I’m not English, I’ve lived here for a long time and was supporting England throughout the tournament. I’m disgusted by their behaviour and some of the weak excuses being made here.

I’ve travelled a lot for football and you’re right, the English do have a reputation. But it’s a mixed one. Known as really ‘getting the party started’ and engaging with locals in a way a lot of more insular nations don't. But also known to have an unsavoury element.

However, being English isn’t the problem. Football violence and racism in almost every Eastern European and Balkan country, France, Italy can be much, much worse. I mean, on a scale I’ve never seen from England fans away, or in this country. Hideous far right elements exist in every European country and latch on to football as an outlet. That’s not an excuse for England, it’s just a fact.

Football brings men out in droves, and has always been an outlet for white, male violence and aggression. It’s a massive problem, it does go in waves depending on the political climate, but on he whole it IS getting better.

I think you are being a bit OTT in the 70s/80s English football fans travelled abroad and killed people (Heysel) and general smashed a city up.

Not saying things are perfect, but getting better.

Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems

So you make a stigmatising, stereotyping, prejudiced. othering statement like this, whilst patting yourself on the back for your tolerance and inclusion?
You really could do with developing some self-awareness. And learning to be less prejudiced.

That should say football violence and racism exist in those countries

@CrouchEndTiger12

Whenever there is a Muslim terrorist atrocity they say Islam is a peaceful religion and don't blame Muslims.

No one argues with that.

Being English apparently I should assuage my guilt and responsibilty for a few thugs I've never even met.

Fucking hell. Arseholes exist on a global scale.

Absolutely agree

I'm ashamed of the things you list but they arent the totality of what it is to be English. I dont really do Nationalism but there are people and institutions in this country that make me proud. The England football team for one - I'd be proud to be the mother of an of those young men.

@Secondbellini

‘I haven't said that the English should be ashamed of being English, in fact I have pointed out that we have the same problem in Scotland’

Nobody said you did. You aren’t the OP and didn’t start the thread.

Somehow I have managed to work out that I'm not the op and didn't start the thread but thanks anyway for helpfully pointing it out although I'm not really sure what the purpose was

Maybe England could change their national sport to curling or something 🤣 just kidding.

Curling, that's the one where they have brooms and sweep isn't it? Oh yes we could institute a special after match tradition of fans sweeping up all their mess, sounds good to me!

I don't feel ashamed to be English, no. I find that attitude weird. I don't have anything in common with those people and their actions are nothing to do with me so why would I feel ashamed?

People act like England is the only country with terrible people in it. All countries have a small subset of the population that ruin it for everyone.

By any measure, the U.K. is one of the most popular and well liked countries in the world.

Op it's absolutely disgraceful behaviour it really is.
It's shamefully embarrassing but.. It's pretty standard for largerd up young lads all over the world for those that way inclined.
In no way does this excuse British fans and especially not of the disgusting racism and I hope each and everyone gets charged and banned from the football matches.
But please its not exclusive to us all, sadly.

Sadly there is a culture of thuggish behaviour around football that doesn't exist around rugby or tennis....

It is definitely less than when l was a child and few families would take their children to a football match......progress has been made.

It doesn't make me ashamed to be British, l am proud of the liberal society Britian is compared to most countries....all the freedoms we have and often take for granted......
it does make me furious that there is a section of society that choses to behave like utter thugs attached to being a football fan.

Personally l would completely ban for life, all those who attend a game and after, during or before behave badly.

@MissDollyMix

Ugh, my social media feed is full of vile nationalist abuse this morning. It's all from Scots towards the English. I'm so sick of all this unpleasantness.

Same here, it's hideous.

@MrsJackGrealish

Proud to be English and proud of our boys.

Those arseholes are not England fans and do not represent England.

Oh and the Denmark fans booed Finland and the Welsh anthem.

I dont like the booing but dont pretend it's just England.

This!

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

‘Somehow I have managed to work out that I'm not the op and didn't start the thread but thanks anyway for helpfully pointing it out although I'm not really sure what the purpose was’

Because I wrote a post saying starting threads saying people should be ashamed wasn’t helpful in solving racism, and you responded to it by saying you hadn’t said people should be ashamed, which seemed weird as you are not the OP.

@Scrumbleton

YANBU- Im sorry but there is a reason why the English are unpopular with other nations - populism, racism, boorish drunkenness, thugggery, bad sportsmanship. Most English people are lovely. Rugby fans are amazing. It’s the football that particularly brings it out. I said to DD to remember that it’s a minority but she travelled through London yesterday and said the vast majority of fans were completely out of control and behaving like animals - she had a bottle thrown at her when she got off the tube. Catch yourselves on English people - shout loudly that you are ashamed - stop making excuses about other nations because they just are not as bad as the English thugs’ behaviour was yesterday. I would add that though I’m not English, I’ve lived here for a long time and was supporting England throughout the tournament. I’m disgusted by their behaviour and some of the weak excuses being made here.

Catch myself on? Fuck off. I'm not taking responsibility for something that has nothing to do with me. You need to catch yourself on.