To wonder who these hooligans are?

[Sandinmyknickers]

I'm sure we are all sickened by some of the footage and images of horrendous, violent antics by some England fans last night. I really dont have the words to describe them- thugs, hooligans, vandals, Neanderthals...take your pick

But AIBU to ask...are any of them your DS or DP/DH? And if so, what are your thoughts on their behaviour?

Everyone seems to be outraged at their behaviour.. but yet noone seems to know them? They all must be someones DS or maybe DP surely? They must have families? And looking at the footage there were loads of them?!

Did any of your male family members (I know there were some women but it is overwhelmingly male) go out causing havoc on the streets last night throwing bottles, fighting, getting naked etc (not just general pub beers)? How do you feel about it? I genuinely cant get my head around it. Are they respectable people normally?

I don't condone the behaviour of these so- called fans. I just wanted to offer a few opinions on why this may have happened. Too much booze, were some folk drinking all day? I firmly believe people have changed during this Pandemic. Violence/domestic violence seems to be on the increase? Were fans infiltrated by agencies with their own agendas? Ive also felt for a long time football is taken far too seriously, it's almost like a cult. Im not singling out any particular team, just football in general. I do feel sorry that this has all turned out this way. England had a very young team and I think they did really well to get to where they did. The pressure must have been immense for these young men.

@EverythingWillFallInLine

They're pretty fucking intimidating in full flow and not amenable to even robust remonstration though.

A few years ago I was going past a ground some time after the match was over and there was only really security there wrapping things up. One of them chucked the remains of his lunch on the floor and an older woman - also passing by - politely (and she was polite) asked him not to. He completely turned on her and she only got away because his mates held him back. I had two kids in a double buggy and I honestly thought he'd go for the lot of us and he was a big fucking guy. And that was bloody security. In a small town, middle of the afternoon. With people around. They don't give a shit, that lot, they really don't.

They are terrifying. Having grown up in a home with a football hooligan I don't go out during major matches or in places where there are likely to be football supporters, it's just too dangerous. It's absolutely terrifying as a woman (and I'm sure as a man who isn't one of them too). A comment on a newspaper article on facebook yesterday by a woman said that she'd been sexually assaulted four times on the way home from work by football fans after the match. I can well imagine that.

@Gothichouse40

I don't condone the behaviour of these so- called fans. I just wanted to offer a few opinions on why this may have happened. Too much booze, were some folk drinking all day? I firmly believe people have changed during this Pandemic. Violence/domestic violence seems to be on the increase? Were fans infiltrated by agencies with their own agendas? Ive also felt for a long time football is taken far too seriously, it's almost like a cult. Im not singling out any particular team, just football in general. I do feel sorry that this has all turned out this way. England had a very young team and I think they did really well to get to where they did. The pressure must have been immense for these young men.

'Were fans infiltrated by agencies with their own agendas?'

What makes you ask this? Football hooliganism is a major problem even during games that aren't major parts of a competition. Are you honestly asking whether people masqueraded as England fans to cause violence for some reason?

I don't know what proportion were drinking all day Sunday, but a friend was horrified to be using the tube that day, unable to avoid large groups of drunk people (mainly men) who were not wearing masks etc and being loud & obnoxious (in football regalia, don't think they were out shopping).

I'm glad that a number of vile idiots showed themselves on SM, as I hope it will lead to consequences.

Racism will never be stamped out completely. Some just get off on it. It's one of the more vile human traits, like any other sort of bullying - a need to feel some (any) sort of superiority over others.

It's sad it's become the main story.
I would prefer to see the whole team being celebrated and that being the main focus.

All I'm seeing in the media and over friends SM is the photos of Rashford, Sancho & Saka as a trio, without the rest of their team, being discussed as the targets of abuse. The media and SM is continuing their singling out because of the controversy.
I would prefer to see them celebrated, as a team.
Those who need focussing on individually are the vile people who have chosen to abuse these talented young men. I would prefer to see their mugshots all over SM in relation to this story, preferably when they've been charged.

That's all.

If their private behaviour is in any way similar to their public behaviour, I imagine the women in their lives are probably as frightened of them as anyone else. Or perhaps they’re married to similarly anti-social people.

Also, ‘too much booze’ is never an excuse for bad behaviour. If you behave badly when you drink too much then you need to stop drinking. It’s no excuse to behave like an abusive animal.

I don't know anyone who would behave like that! It is absolutely disgusting and makes me ashamed to be English, or maybe a better word is embarrassed. Me and adult DD watched the game at home. My adult DS didn't bother, as he's more into Rugby. My DH was on duty as a Police Officer - not in London thankfully!

Nope. Men shouldn’t be calling out other men’s behaviour anymore than women should be calling out other women’s behaviour

Don't agree. If we are witnesses (IRL or on Social Media) we should call people on this as long as we don't endanger ourselves.

As for people have racist friends: nope. I don't. I mean they might be but I haven't experienced them being racist (or sexist or homophobic or generally bigoted) because I would have said something. And if it didn't change there would be no contact.

@EverythingWillFallInLine has described club hooliganism perfectly. I'm not in UK but it exists here too. They arrange to meet and fight - generally they do it away from the ground, and have some sort of "code" that Normalos and kids are off limits. That is the actual hooligans though, it's like a version of fight club.

Drunken violence at national team events tends not to be these hooligans though, just drunk, in a group and often egged on. Add the hype from the Euros and a year of lockdown and nearly no live football dir fans and it got very bad very quickly. UEFA should have been told by the police that an 8pm kick-off is unacceptable. When the club I follow play against "high risk" (of hooligan violence) matches there are riot police (so so many) and an alcohol ban, not only in the stadium but for a large radius. It works generally in that regular yobnos are kept away. The hools still meet up elsewhere, and that has occasionally got out of hand and spilled over (although it is against their code and I suspect wannabe hooligans there) - so not fun for anyone nearby.

The answer I think is better (more) policing, no alcohol and a less ridiculous kick-off time.

I know it's probably bad of me, but I can't help having a bit of a giggle at the posters who are giving alibis to the males in their lives.

The late kick-off likely was part due to the Wimbledon men's final on the same day.

Sorry but I don't agree that these men all behave like this in all areas of their lives. The guy I worked with was funny and chatty and helpful and kind. He had a wife and 4 daughters who he adored and treated well. He was an all round 'nice guy'. Until the football was on. I really can't get my head around it. Not all of these men are violent abusers. A lot are perfectly normal people and that's what makes it so scary.

Isn't it some kind of outlet for testosterone fuelled behaviour, a bit like people who get behind the wheel of a car and suddenly get all aggro and sweary, when you combine a macho sport like football with alcohol, the demons are unleashed, it's sick sad and scary.

Honestly, it’s very reminiscent to me of that scene in To Kill A Mockingbird with Atticus outside the jail. Mob mentality can turn normally reasonable people (usually men, i have to say) into monsters. They are not individuals at that moment because they can not be- they blame the mob and they deny accountability, else they cannot reconcile their behaviour with the person they perceive themselves to be.

However, this IS who they are, under the surface. This is their inner self, usually hidden and denied, but given any excuse it comes out.

And alcohol helps expose their true nature

Except it wasn't a moment of madness where he got carried away with the mob. He would happily tell these stories at work as if they were funny. He deliberately travelled 100s of miles to cause mayhem outside Wembley, despite being banned and risking incarceration. I can't make it make sense at all.

@ParsleyDill I went out with this yobbo because he seemingly doted on me and was very manipulative. I was young and naiive. It was an abusive relationship. And as I said , it's tribal behaviour. To me it was just one of things that young blokes did.

@whoami24601

Sorry but I don't agree that these men all behave like this in all areas of their lives. The guy I worked with was funny and chatty and helpful and kind. He had a wife and 4 daughters who he adored and treated well. He was an all round 'nice guy'. Until the football was on. I really can't get my head around it. Not all of these men are violent abusers. A lot are perfectly normal people and that's what makes it so scary.

The guy you're describing doesn't fit the profile of the typical casual. I used to live near to one of the train stations in London where it would often kick off in the early 2000s and most of them were pretty similar to how they're depicted in all the football violence films.