Page 3 | To wonder who these hooligans are?

Thewiseoneincognito · 12/07/2021 14:09

One of the many reasons I can’t stand football is the fans. Too many scumbag ones, it truly brings out the worst in so many of them. I wonder how many wives, gfs and daughters are nursing injuries after having the loss taken out on them. Horrendous.

TooOldandTired · 12/07/2021 14:14

@Sandinmyknickers

I'm sure we are all sickened by some of the footage and images of horrendous, violent antics by some England fans last night. I really dont have the words to describe them- thugs, hooligans, vandals, Neanderthals...take your pick

But AIBU to ask...are any of them your DS or DP/DH? And if so, what are your thoughts on their behaviour?

Everyone seems to be outraged at their behaviour.. but yet noone seems to know them? They all must be someones DS or maybe DP surely? They must have families? And looking at the footage there were loads of them?!

Did any of your male family members (I know there were some women but it is overwhelmingly male) go out causing havoc on the streets last night throwing bottles, fighting, getting naked etc (not just general pub beers)? How do you feel about it? I genuinely cant get my head around it. Are they respectable people normally?

I think you will find that a good proportion of these families of these people are also subject to the same abuse in their homes so maybe they are more worried about staying alive rather than calling out what they are doing outside. The police need to look at the footage and identify and arrest as many of them as possible, that is the only way it will stop.

ParsleyDill · 12/07/2021 14:18

[quote Travelledtheworld]@WhyTheEffNot I too had a football Yobbo boyfriend in the 1980s. He loved going to a match for a good fight and some mindless vandalism. It was learned behaviour and peer pressure, fuelled by alcohol. Young men are very tribal in their behaviour and the weak point in any Seemingly civilised society .

Fortunately I personally was never at the receiving end of a beating to commemorate a team loss. But many women are, hence the 38% increase in domestic violence reports after a big name team lose.[/quote]
So why did you go out with him once you knew what he was like, @Travelledtheworld?

Not being arsy -- a genuine question, in line with the question of the OP, about how football hooligans have friends and wives and parents and children and workmates. You're one of the only people on the thread to have identified yourself as having had a relationship with someone who went to matches for fighting and vandalism. I know it's a long time ago, but can you say why you were ok with it then?

WednesdayIsPurple · 12/07/2021 14:18

@remy3

It’s a good question, “Who are the hooligans?” and one we shouldn’t ignore.

To my mind they are the suck undeveloped of British society. The following circumstances will apply to most of them -

uneducated / low intellect
unemployed or in dead-end jobs they hate, yet they don’t have the wherewithal or motivation to do anything about it
they prefer to blame others for their shit lives, rather than do anything about it themselves
insecurity masquerading as belligerence
tribal mentality - “splitting” - “them and us attitude” - xenophobia - racism - misogyny
Brexiteers (see above)
poor health with associated problems of alcoholism; obesity, etc
angry about their lot in life, but it’s easier to blame everyone else than take any responsibility for anything.
for these men, negative attention is better than no attention at all

it is so dangerous to stereotype like this - to think that it can only be poor, uneducated people

when one of the clubs investigated racist behaviour of its fans abroad, there was a wide array of jobs but the ring leader was a solicitor in the city who subsequently lost his job. Someone who posted racist abuse this morning was (allegedly) outed as a building manager at Savills.

These are not uneducated, unemployed people.

Someone we knew through work was on TV at a football match and arrested for racist behaviour - I didn't know him socially but I was surprised. He also lost his job (he was an engineer).

These people walk among us

MotionActivatedDog · 12/07/2021 14:20

@remy3

It’s a good question, “Who are the hooligans?” and one we shouldn’t ignore.

To my mind they are the suck undeveloped of British society. The following circumstances will apply to most of them -

uneducated / low intellect
unemployed or in dead-end jobs they hate, yet they don’t have the wherewithal or motivation to do anything about it
they prefer to blame others for their shit lives, rather than do anything about it themselves
insecurity masquerading as belligerence
tribal mentality - “splitting” - “them and us attitude” - xenophobia - racism - misogyny
Brexiteers (see above)
poor health with associated problems of alcoholism; obesity, etc
angry about their lot in life, but it’s easier to blame everyone else than take any responsibility for anything.
for these men, negative attention is better than no attention at all

I obviously can’t speak for all of them but none of this applies to the people I know that do this sort of crap. University educated- think radiographer, teacher etc. Very confident, arrogant, lovely lives, very much a “take whatever you can get attitude- fuck anyone else” and just loves the chance to get in with their feet. The football doesn’t fight back enough for them

DynamoKev · 12/07/2021 14:25

@Itsprobablynotcominghome

The problem is that as a society we think these people are a tiny minority.

We sweep it away, blame social media, blame alcohol, blame lockdown, blame anything or anyone but ourselves.

blame anything or anyone but ourselves.

Eh? How exactly am I to blame for the actions of thugs?
What do I need to do differently to prevent them from doing it?

babbaloushka · 12/07/2021 14:29

Some of DD's Instagram "friends" were there, she says they have girlfriends.

A woman I used to work with's son trashed a local venue during the Germany game, so much so that it had to close for the next match, and a photograph of him holding a flare on the stage circled on several local news sites. She was sharing them, joking about him getting royalties and generally egging him on, this was publicly on FB.

Jokes on them now though, as the flare sent another fan to hospital with an asthma attack, and he has been banned from the venue. Not a nice lad and his mum needs some sense knocking into her, she's raised a misogynistic thug who will get himself into some real trouble soon, and he'll deserve it.

Councilworker · 12/07/2021 14:31

I went out with a bloke about 12 years ago who was obsessed with casuals and hooligan culture. He was a Bolton supporter and I think quite idolised the 80s football hooligans in a way as he saw it as some sort of proof of your devotion to a club and a level of camaraderie between your fellow crew members. He was white middle class went to university for a first and was a lower grade Civil Servant. Whilst he probably wouldn't have started a fight I don't think he would break one up. He probably would throw beer and climb up a statue or onto a barrier sing loudly and badly and possibly show his arse. He would describe himself then and now as a blokey bloke.
Men from all social classes have been arrested for hooliganism in the past. It's not something that ABC1Ss never do and only the lowly manual or unskilled workers do. It's machismo and alcohol that make the lethal combination with a good sprinkling of tribalism.

AnotherKrampus · 12/07/2021 14:38

A lot of these thugs are supposedly professionals. Arrests in previous situations showed a lot of white-collar office workers, some city bods etc which is infuriating because the stereotypes are usually blaming 'low-class' yobs. Around my way, it was a lot of Hooray Henris and their drunk female counterparts.

doesparentingsuck · 12/07/2021 14:39

OP I have been thinking the SAME thing everyone so quick to condemn the behaviour and disassociate themselves from these people but they have families and jobs and wives and children and mothers - someone must know something about this? And be quietly complicit. Who are you? Speak up!

doesparentingsuck · 12/07/2021 14:40

@doesparentingsuck

OP I have been thinking the SAME thing everyone so quick to condemn the behaviour and disassociate themselves from these people but they have families and jobs and wives and children and mothers - someone must know something about this? And be quietly complicit. Who are you? Speak up!

And fathers before anyone jumps on it! They just have work colleagues and friends. SOMEONE knows these people!!

doesparentingsuck · 12/07/2021 14:41

@Itsprobablynotcominghome

The problem is that as a society we think these people are a tiny minority.

We sweep it away, blame social media, blame alcohol, blame lockdown, blame anything or anyone but ourselves.

This exactly

Bumblenums1234 · 12/07/2021 14:50

Nope DS is 14 months so was in bed and DP was in bed as he doesn't care about the football

AnneElliott · 12/07/2021 14:57

It's an interesting question op. I've been at polo e operations for football (not the Euros) and yes most of the people arrested had jobs - a majority had white collar jobs and families.

The police view was that it was a very tribal thing, often family/friends related and they see the violence as part of the fun. Something to do on a Saturday afternoon. Some of the men were in their 50s which surprised me.

ParsleyDill · 12/07/2021 15:02

@MotionActivatedDog and @AnotherKrampus, but why are these civil servants, teachers and radiographers you list so unafraid of any employment consequences (which could involve dismissal for gross misconduct, breach of contract, impact on credibility of being able to discharge their role etc) for their violent and/or antisocial behaviour, given that they're clearly relatively invested in their careers?

SlothMama · 12/07/2021 15:10

I'd happily report anyone if I saw them behaving like that

Flugbustingbiz · 12/07/2021 15:15

Lol all the defensive posters - you're sure it wasn't your H breaking into Wembley

No one would admit it op! I was watching them all on Twitter yesterday and was wondering who procreates with these cretins, someone must

x2boys · 12/07/2021 15:24

I used to go to school with someone who received a, prison sentence about 20 years ago for football hooliganism, he was always a bully
It's a subculture of people, and I bet most don't even care about football their main aim is violence

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 12/07/2021 15:29

@Flugbustingbiz

Lol all the defensive posters - you're sure it wasn't your H breaking into Wembley

No one would admit it op! I was watching them all on Twitter yesterday and was wondering who procreates with these cretins, someone must

Ive video evidence 🙂

remy3 · 12/07/2021 15:31

But if you have a job you’re reasonably happy with and you have children and a family etc, why would you do this? Surely you have too much to lose? What is the actual point?

remy3 · 12/07/2021 15:36

I think there is an element of these individuals who just go out hoping for a fight - they don’t care about the football or who wins or loses. It’s like a tribal psyche, or something like that? They get excited in the anonymity of crowds. They want to smash up people and property and use the football as an excuse?

Boood · 12/07/2021 15:36

Because in our culture, there are two ways for men to express their anger that other men turn a blind eye to. The first is getting drunk and abusing women, and the second is getting drunk and abusing an opposing football team and its fans. I’m pretty sure that there’s an enormous overlap between the two, so the answer to the question is, these men are everywhere. And the men around them stay out of it because they don’t see the problem, or don’t see it as their business, and the women appease them so that they don’t become the target.

ChainJane · 12/07/2021 15:40

@x2boys

I used to go to school with someone who received a, prison sentence about 20 years ago for football hooliganism, he was always a bully It's a subculture of people, and I bet most don't even care about football their main aim is violence

I think you and a previous poster who said "they're not football fans" are both wrong.

Being a hooligan/thug does not prevent someone being a football fan too. Many of the thugs genuinely love their team, almost as much as they love the violence and destruction they create when opportunities arrive.

The idiots who tried to storm Wembley yesterday were highly unlikely to have been there trying to force their way in if they had no interest in football.

Time and again politicians and the media claim hooligans aren't true football supporters. That's utter nonsense. Their love for their team is genuine. Loving a team and being a thug are no more incompatible than loving your team and being a stamp collector or model train enthusiast are.

Personally I think the thuggery has a lot to do with wanting to exercise control. They are testosterone-fuelled louts who are used to getting their own way, whether it's beating the wife if she burns your dinner or having a punch-up in the pub because someone looked at you funny. With football, especially when your team is involved in a final or in a position to win at title - you have zero control over what happens. You are weak, you are powerless. The team's PR department can make sure the players and managers spout the usual bollocks about the fans being the 12th man on the pitch, but ultimately as the football fan you are powerless to influence the game unless you smuggle a laser pen in.

The violence is a way to show that actually, you do have control of something at least. It shows that you matter, that people can't ignore you. Especially if you lose, but even if you win.

It's an idiotic stance to take, but then the thugs weren't exactly going to be watching Mastermind instead, were they.

DasPepe · 12/07/2021 15:45

Hi OP. I made a similar comment on another thread.
The not all men/not all fans line is really not cracking it anymore. I see no difference between the football thugs and the guys who assaulted Chris Whitty.

Leary, full of entitlement, would take the credit but not contribute, sexist, aggressive, xenophobic, homophobic. . When they think they can get away with it.
These people aren’t like that ALL the time. But we have allowed a culture where there is no society pressure not to put your feet on seats, throw litter, spit and urinate in the street etc etc etc. and that pressure used to come from society including peers.
I’m just waiting for some of these culprits to be caught and the line round to block of people to say what a great person they are and they would do anything for anybody blah blah blah.
Accountability is severely missing

YellowandGreenToBeSeen · 12/07/2021 15:45

Coke. A lot of the behaviour is fuelled by a vile combination of alcohol and coke. Both require money. This sickening behaviour is not the work of the unemployed.