AIBU to wish people could be more honest and accepting of honesty?

[LemonLemonLemon]

I realise I’m not about to change society, but I wish it was more acceptable to be straight with people. Probably my pet hate is white lies to avoid a slightly upsetting truth.

For example, if a friend doesn’t want to meet with me because they’d rather spend the day relaxing, they should be able to tell me that and I should accept that and move on. I know for a fact that a lot of people would lie about this, or if they told the truth it would upset the other person.

Why can’t we tell someone if an outfit doesn’t suit their shape, or if they’ve upset us and why?

I’m not saying everyone suddenly needs to become rude and blunt, you can still be honest with tact.

But that's not really about honesty - you are just assuming that you are a neutral party in this exchange. What if you had missed out on something else to see this friend, or if you were feeling really shit and were really looking forward to seeing your friend and if they cancel that will mean you spend the weekend alone. Is it ok for you to then be honest in return and say that you're pissed off that you passed up on something else or sad that they're ditching you when you really needed a friend

Yes, it's ok to say those things if you feel them. But if you feel you have to say this sort of thing every time a friend cancels, you need to have a look at how you're managing your own emotions. Friends are meant to support each other, but they're not the emotional emergency services.

As an honest person, I generally don't bat an eyelid if a friend says they're too tired or something else has come up. If they do it repeatedly, I'll have a look at the friendship and work out if it's still mutually satisfying. It's not always the case, and so sometimes it's necessary to pull back from friendships/have a chat.

Nowhere does anybody have to say/not say something that is true to their feelings. Everybody is being honest.

My grandparents are French and the bluntest people I know. My Gran is not afraid to tell people what she thinks of them and I find it quite impressive, there’s no way I’d dare say even half of what she says!

I think Austrians are the bluntest people I have met (DH is part Austrian) but I don’t mind, I actually like it

@Hoppinggreen

I think Austrians are the bluntest people I have met (DH is part Austrian) but I don’t mind, I actually like it

The Dutch are more blunt ime.

" But if you feel you have to say this sort of thing every time a friend cancels, you need to have a look at how you're managing your own emotions. Friends are meant to support each other, but they're not the emotional emergency services."

It's not necessarily about emotions, it's about your plans being ruined if, for example, you declined something else or you've just arranged everything around one meetup. Personally, I don't put up with cancellations except for serious issues.

@Youdiditanyway

My grandparents are French and the bluntest people I know. My Gran is not afraid to tell people what she thinks of them and I find it quite impressive, there’s no way I’d dare say even half of what she says!

One of my grandmothers was extremely blunt in her last years (over 90). She got away with it just because of her age.

I’ve never met any Dutch people but am often asked if I’m Dutch. I always thought it was just because of the way I look but
now I’ve read this thread it may be my bluntness too.

Gwen I have met both and I still think The Austrians “win”
Or maybe that’s just DHs family ?

Culturally the Dutch are the bluntest group that I know, much more direct that Australians.

There are obviously always individual variations in that. I actually don't mind it at all but I lived in Yorkshire for years.

@Gwenhwyfar

" But if you feel you have to say this sort of thing every time a friend cancels, you need to have a look at how you're managing your own emotions. Friends are meant to support each other, but they're not the emotional emergency services."

It's not necessarily about emotions, it's about your plans being ruined if, for example, you declined something else or you've just arranged everything around one meetup. Personally, I don't put up with cancellations except for serious issues.

But do you not see that that is about emotions? If a friend cancels, you could be furious or feel let down of feel disappointed or not mind or be relieved because you were feeling quite tired yourself, but it's all to do with feelings.

People can be honest and still be careful with other people's feelings. I don't put up with cancellations if they're careless with my feelings (ie last minute, repeated, expensive, very disappointing etc) But I'll put up with a cancellation if it's for something very casual, with a reasonable amount of notice, even if it's just because my friend doesn't feel like coming out.

@lakesummer

Culturally the Dutch are the bluntest group that I know, much more direct that Australians.

There are obviously always individual variations in that. I actually don't mind it at all but I lived in Yorkshire for years.

Australians or Austrians? We did have a family member who came to visit who was Austrian but lived in Australia for 20 years That woman was BLUNT!!

I am still scared by Eastern Slovakians and I AM blunt person myself😂 Love them though!

I have a good Dutch friend and I remember a few years ago going to a cafe with her, another 3 (?) friends and all our babies - she went up to someone sitting alone at a long cafe table that could seat 8 or so people and saying "Excuse me, do you mind moving there [much smaller table] so we can sit here? Because there are lots more of us." And the person moved. God I loved her at that moment.

Austrian, although Australians are also blunter than Brits. ( my autocorrect loves Australia 😂)

I lived in a Latin American country which I found quite difficult because no one would actually say no to your face.

I see some social lies as harmless even important for a kinder society. I was shopping not long ago and the assistant had terrible facial burns. My first instinct when I suddenly looked up and first saw her was to recoil in shock but I forced myself to stop, look at her and be pleasant.

It wasn't noble it was just decent and she appreciated it from her many thank you's to me. Imagine how awful it is to her that some people don't bother to try?

Its the bigger lies our society tells that do most damage... "We just can't afford it..."Men face as much discrimination as women... "We're not racist" and "kids lie about abuse" etc etc

As a Dutch person I always find it amusing to read that we are considered to be so blunt. I never really found dealing with other Dutch people that they were rude or hurtful. But maybe I just have thicker skin?

I agree that the English "politeness" can be very annoying and in my personal opinion can be just as rude. The English are notorious time wasters. There are times, in business settings, that I can get things done in half an hour with a Dutch or German person that might take me three days with an English person. This circling around an issue just because you don't want to hurt my feelings can be frustrating and somewhat insulting.

I also know that my self confidence had gone down since moving to the UK. So often I find myself thinking, was that a real compliment or did they just say that because they felt they had to? Maybe they actually think the opposite?

I never had that before. If someone complimented you you knew it was true, it really meant something. Same thing as sorry, the word sorry has lost all impact since living in the UK.

This is not to say that I don't love living in the UK. These are just minor irritations that one has to get used to when living here.

*I see some social lies as harmless even important for a kinder society. I was shopping not long ago and the assistant had terrible facial burns. My first instinct when I suddenly looked up and first saw her was to recoil in shock but I forced myself to stop, look at her and be pleasant.

It wasn't noble it was just decent and she appreciated it from her many thank you's to me. Imagine how awful it is to her that some people don't bother to try?*

That's justa absolutely not wthat being straightforward would mean!

@jskei

I see some social lies as harmless even important for a kinder society. I was shopping not long ago and the assistant had terrible facial burns. My first instinct when I suddenly looked up and first saw her was to recoil in shock but I forced myself to stop, look at her and be pleasant.

It wasn't noble it was just decent and she appreciated it from her many thank you's to me. Imagine how awful it is to her that some people don't bother to try?

Its the bigger lies our society tells that do most damage... "We just can't afford it..."Men face as much discrimination as women... "We're not racist" and "kids lie about abuse" etc etc

That's not a lie. That's an internal recognition that the person behind the burns was more than the burns, and that the respectful thing to do would be to respond to the person, not the burns.

What do you think an 'honest' person would do in this situation? Stand with their jaw dropped in horror?

This is a good example of not understanding how honesty works. Honesty doesn't fly in the face of kindness. It doesn't have to be delivered unkindly. It's perfectly possible to be honest and respectful. They're not mutually exclusive.

jskei that is not really what people are talking about. People are talking about social lies like:

"I will get back to you about that" instead of just saying no.

"I'm 10 min away" when they haven't even left the house and then complain about traffic when they do arrive.

"Lets meet up for coffee some time" with no intention of doing os.

Telling business (say a restaurant) you're happy with the service and then complain about it later to family and friends, not giving the business a chance to rectify the mistake.

A shop assistant telling you a dress looks good on you just because they want a sale not because it actually looks good.

I wouldn't give my opinion on an outfit unless asked, thats just unnecessary.

I am trying to be more honest in friendships though, I’m too old not to be. 🤷‍♀️

@PaulaPetunia

Yes it's often a class based issue.

My very working class DM hates just being told the truth, but the problem is we've tried hinting and she doesn't pick up on it.

What class are foreigners😁

@Wearywithteens Yeah, I'm a foreigner in a very middle class profession and I struggle. I've been told I'm too blunt, when I thought I was actually doing a good job of adopting British politeness. Wonder what people would say if I was my real self, the way I would be in my home country . I still somehow manage to have lots of friends in the Uk though. I think I get away with more because people think "oh she's just from 'the continent', they're more direct there"
I honestly don't mean to upset anyone though.

"I lived in a Latin American country which I found quite difficult because no one would actually say no to your face."

I have a Dutch friend who did too. She found it very frustrating!

@SchrodingersImmigrant

What class are foreigners😁

They're exempt. It's quite funny, actually. If an English person does 'x', we thing they must be working class, but if a German person does 'x', we think they're... German.