Rigid school uniforms

[Waitrosedisaster]

I've just had the usual letter from my child's secondary school, where it outlines all the dos and don'ts surrounding school uniform for the next academic year.

Is anyone just absolutely sick of the outdated concept of strict uniforms? The nitty gritty details of 'only black or brown hair bobbles', 'no bows on socks', 'all clothes including p.e kit must have the school logo'. Why? Just why? My personal favourite this year is the following 'any piercing other than single lobe piercings will be removed immediately, regardless of when piercing was obtained'. Also, nail varnish and shellac will also be removed immediately? Wtf?

School uniforms (other than being used as a money making scheme) were originally used for purposes not to dissimilar from uniforms for prisons, or mental health units. They were used to strip away a person's individuality and make them more likely to conform and obey as they are effectively 'uniform'. It's such an outdated concept and I find it bizarre that schools are able to even dictate which (overpriced) shops the uniform must come from.

I hear arguments from teacher friends about how uniforms are better for low income families, but are they really? Unless the parents do not work, are they even able to claim money off uniforms?

Anyone else agree?

@LolaSmiles

warmfluffytowels Schools near me in that situation allowed the Year 10s and 11s to continue wearing the old uniform, so only Years 7-9 made the change. Very few students wear the same items for 5 years. One chain I've heard of provides students with a set of uniform, or all year 7s.

Any school that does a quick full change for everyone is unreasonable in my opinion.

I agree.

But someone above mentioned that parents shouldn't pick a school with strict rules if they didn't agree with them, which ignores the fact that a) many parents don't have a choice and b) many schools change rules mid-way through a child's time there.

I object to schools insisting on logoed and branded items, or clothes in weird and wonderful colours or patterns so you are forced to give the school a backhander buy from the school supplier. I can understand a blazer and tie but not whole uniforms and pe kits. Secondary schools have done this for ages but now my DC primary is introducing an expensive "exciting" new branded school uniform including pe kit. One of the state secondaries near me has blazers that are over £100 from the school supplier. (The uniform "grant" is £50 - are you supposed to buy half a blazer...? )

6th form "corporate style" uniform really annoys me, as well.
I literally dont understand it. Very few jobs now insist you must wear a power suit to work. My friends DH is a partner in a London law firm - he rarely wears a suit to work. Not all teachers, or GPs, or accountants wear suits.
I have a practical/creative job and in 20 years, I've yet to see someone wearing a suit or tie doing that ..and yet the kids doing tech subjects at school are meant to wear suits (and ties for the boys) . It's about the most impractical clothing you can think of if you are doing woodwork, or cookery, or art (and expensive to dry clean, or replace if you get it dirty, or ruin it)

@HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime
So in effect you've just made a different type of uniform.
One they can wear outside school too, and that can be bought more cheaply than most secondary uniform though. Teenagers also need to know how to dress for the workplace, and in many jobs that is suitable casual clothing.

Haven’t read the whole thread.

But uniform is about behaviour control and behaviour in class does have a huge impact on teaching and learning. If you don’t like the uniform at your school - move.

Trying to control 30 children and getting them past their GCSEs is tough. Having high expectations is important and that includes appearance.

i think school uniforms are outdated nonsense and anyone who thinks it cuts out the differentiation between wealthy and poor children hasn't got the slightest clue.

I had literally the stupidest uniform ever invented, and my DCs grew up and went to school with no uniform (but a dress code - so no cheeky shorts or spaghetti straps for girls, no showing underwear for boys) and it was perfectly fine.

@84wood

Haven’t read the whole thread.

But uniform is about behaviour control and behaviour in class does have a huge impact on teaching and learning. If you don’t like the uniform at your school - move.

Trying to control 30 children and getting them past their GCSEs is tough. Having high expectations is important and that includes appearance.

Then how do millions of other schools around the world cope without a uniform? lol. It's only the UK that seems to use that argument around uniform. America, Canada, most of Europe and the rest of the world all seem to manage without.

And even if a uniform IS important, why does it have to come from the school outfitter and cost a small fortune?

Have no idea about other countries’ systems and their cultures. That will be unique to them. But uniform in the UK is badly needed especially in ‘naughty’ schools. It sets an expectation and tries to make children conform, engage and be polite. I care about GCSE results and in the UK uniform is needed.
As I said - if you don’t like your school policies move. My DC goes to a very strict school for uniform. If I didn’t like it I’d move her. I’m more concerned about child happiness and exam results.

@84wood

Have no idea about other countries’ systems and their cultures. That will be unique to them. But uniform in the UK is badly needed especially in ‘naughty’ schools. It sets an expectation and tries to make children conform, engage and be polite. I care about GCSE results and in the UK uniform is needed. As I said - if you don’t like your school policies move. My DC goes to a very strict school for uniform. If I didn’t like it I’d move her. I’m more concerned about child happiness and exam results.

Yeah, because everyone has loads of choice about schools.

My area has one high school unless you pay for private. There IS no choice.

Again, why does uniform in the UK need to be logo'd and expensive? What's wrong with trousers, a polo short and a plain coloured jumper from the supermarket?

No school needs a logo'd blazer, tie etc. to get kids to conform. That's just nonsense.

My daughter starts school in September. It will cost £190 without shoes of trainers for her to start in reception. This is our catchment school. No choice to go anywhere else. This is an obscene amount of money for people to have to spend. Children at the age of 4 do not need ties and button up shirts and logo jumpers. What is wrong with cheap polo shirts and a cheap sweatshirt? Also whoever thinks putting 4 and 5 years in white shirts is an idiot.

Have no idea about other countries’ systems and their cultures. That will be unique to them. But uniform in the UK is badly needed especially in ‘naughty’ schools. It sets an expectation and tries to make children conform, engage and be polite. I care about GCSE results and in the UK uniform is needed

Then how do you account for all for all crap schools in and out of RI and SM that have these strict uniforms and still have poor results. How long do you give it til you admit its not working?

What i don't get is that it is a very Conservative (or conservative) thing to want uniform. But for C/conservatives a monopoly is a bad thing and the market should set prices. So single school uniform suppliers should be a massive no-no. And yet, meh.

If you're going to insist on a uniform (and i still maintain that if most of mainland Europe, including as pp said the best school system in the world, Finland, can do without it, what is it about the Very Special British that they need to force their children into uncomfortable, impractical expensive clothes?

Any teachers on here sho have taught at schools where they have to, as pp mentioned, ask permission to remove blazers (and then were refused during exams) what's the thinking behind that?

And the hassle of doing up buttons and trying to find black socks each morning! Adjusting waistbands, trying to do up ties!

Meh. I get that dressing is difficult, but you shouldn't be looking for items of clothing in the morning. That's a rookie mistake.

If school uniform is going to be a "thing" there is no reason it can't be X different styles of black/grey/whatever trousers (takes account of different needs for different children or skirt (regulation length above knee is relatively easy to determine - we had to kneel on the floor and they had to touch the floor) or shorts. With no distinction about who is allowed to wear trousers/skirts. Blouses/shirts or polo-type shirts, v-neck jumper. Ties if necessary to be clip on. Hoody/shorts/trakkies/leggings and a polo shirt for sport. Again, no restrictions on who can wear what.

All generic, all widely available none expensive. It is doable. If you really insist.

www.gov.uk/government/news/new-law-to-make-school-uniform-costs-affordable-for-all

School uniform is totally unnecessary. My DC have never worn a school uniform and it’s the teaching which is important not whether they have a particular logo on their ridiculous bazar.

I am torn on this issue because i like the fact that at my dds school the uniform policy is very strict. The same rules apply to everyone, so its fair. On the other hand, i do wish that they would update school uniforms in general to reflect what people in the real world actually wear. Wool skirt, wool jumper, blouse, who dresses like that nowadays?

It is a shame you don’t have choice and you have to accept a uniform policy you don’t agree with. That is tough especially if it is expensive to you.

However, behaviour management is absolutely key to controlling children’s engagement in the classroom to deliver a good education with excellent exam results. Uniform is part of behaviour management in the UK. Some schools struggle to deliver and again that’s a shame. But uniform with high expectations is super important about setting high expectations to children.

I am torn on this issue because i like the fact that at my dds school the uniform policy is very strict. The same rules apply to everyone, so its fair.

But the rules can apply to everyone without being strict. The colour of someone's hair bobble, the style of their trousers or the number of earrings in their earlobes has no impact on their ability to learn Maths.

Uniform is part of behaviour management in the UK

Not in every school. There are schools in the UK with no uniform and they don't seem to have imploded in chaos.

But uniform with high expectations is super important about setting high expectations to children.

Nonsense.

Not sure if a strict school uniform is fair, what if you are disabled or neurodiverse it is simply another stick to get beaten with.
It was just another reminder of how little control I had over most of my life and that something that irrelevant is important to some people.

It'd be like having a journal rejecting out one of my papers since I did most of the writing wearing gym kit.

Most European countries do not have uniform yet consistently have better results and better mental health than in the UK.

But uniform with high expectations is super important about setting high expectations to children

Those high expectations can't be applied to those who couldn't afford 400 quid , plus the bus pass, plus the chrome book just to get through the door.

Once you have excluded the poor, the disabled/non NT you have a head start already don't you.

@SamusIsAGirl

Most European countries do not have uniform yet consistently have better results and better mental health than in the UK.

Uniform advocates seem to consistently ignore the fact that most of the world don't wear any form of uniform whatsoever!

My ds goes to a none uniform secondary.

I don't spent £50 on a pairvof shoes that last 3 months. He frequetly wears the same clothes. It is far cheaper than primary.
I spoke to a few teachers about it on open day all said they prefer it saves times etc.

There is no equaliser in uniform when insiting on branded socks, you often see go to second hand sales on uniform threads. How is that equal.

You obviously have lots of experience of getting children their qualifications plus getting good progress in earlier years and find that uniform is unimportant. Good for you.

I’ve not experienced that. Uniform has been important in all my schools.

But super expensive uniforms in poor areas with little choice too move schools seems tough. I’m not sure how to handle that as it isn’t fair and schools can do as they like. In that situation you could write to your MP and copy in hour governing body and local press to embarrass your school. You could also organise second hand uniform sales.

Hope that helps.

@84wood

Haven’t read the whole thread.

But uniform is about behaviour control and behaviour in class does have a huge impact on teaching and learning. If you don’t like the uniform at your school - move.

Trying to control 30 children and getting them past their GCSEs is tough. Having high expectations is important and that includes appearance.

If teachers need uniforms to 'control' the children in their class, they need to go back to basics

@Desertexpat

I couldn’t disagree more. The people complaining about uniform prices are funny as they would have to buy many sets of normal clothes if not uniform so uniform is cheaper. Even if you buy five sets it is more cost effective than many outfits for children. Secondary, children will waste time every morning and there will be tantrums and too much negotiations every morning of what shall I wear. Oh no you can’t wear that. That’s too short. Some children might get bullied as they will go for Emo clothes or mosher clothes like when we were young and that is a distraction to the class. It just opens up many doors that are best closed. Children feel psychologically ready to go into school when they’re in their uniform as well and everyone is equal in it. They’re free to wear their own clothes any other time they wish or on the weekend. School isn’t the place to express their “individuality” or those kinds of things.

This is ridiculous. I just spent £90 for several jeggings/trousers for DD who moved into adult size overnight. This is to cover weekends and holidays. I wouldn't have to buy anymore just for school times, the clothes are there already.

I pay £35 for one skirt, £35 for one polycotton jumper and £80 for one polycotton blazer. Plus polycotton shirts and tights/socks in one specific colour.

DD stinks when she is home despite daily showers and deodarant. So one set is not. enough to get her through the week. Strangely enough, she doesn't small after a day in cotton shirts at home or on holiday. Thanks to rules I can't change the uniform to cotton only.

DD was bullies in Y6 as she. didn't have a latest iphone. A friend's girl was bullied in. Y5 for not having. a Smiggle back. Uniform is not keeping bullying over clothing away, it just moves to other items.

I want DD to feel like her own person, not an drone in a factory where everyone is dressed the same and has the same.

I managed to survive 13 years of school with my mind psycholically intakt, being on time and ready for school and not having any uniform. I managed to buy a wardrobe suitable for office work despite never having worn a blazer before. I manage to follow a dresscode because I do know it is there and HR will tell. me off if I don't.

Workplaces do have a clothing code of sorts, but also grownups don't often experience a similar level of angst or peer pressure our young teens are often under

Not all workplaces! Smart casual is clean jeans, a top and trainers in many non/customer facing roles. There a few rules like no overly revealing clothes or strappy tops but that’s all.

I work in a hospital and we all wear scrubs, even the top doctors. Baggy pj-like scrubs are far from smart 😂 we wear trainers too!

Why are we trussing little kids up in shirts with collars and ties, restrictive trousers with no stretch. My friend’s son has sensory issues so she’s resorted to buying him girls pull up jersey school trousers (they look the same on, doubt anybody’s even noticed!)

And the poor teachers and TAs have to help get them dressed and undressed before and after PE if they can’t do their own tie and socks (which many reception children can’t).