Rigid school uniforms

[Waitrosedisaster]

I've just had the usual letter from my child's secondary school, where it outlines all the dos and don'ts surrounding school uniform for the next academic year.

Is anyone just absolutely sick of the outdated concept of strict uniforms? The nitty gritty details of 'only black or brown hair bobbles', 'no bows on socks', 'all clothes including p.e kit must have the school logo'. Why? Just why? My personal favourite this year is the following 'any piercing other than single lobe piercings will be removed immediately, regardless of when piercing was obtained'. Also, nail varnish and shellac will also be removed immediately? Wtf?

School uniforms (other than being used as a money making scheme) were originally used for purposes not to dissimilar from uniforms for prisons, or mental health units. They were used to strip away a person's individuality and make them more likely to conform and obey as they are effectively 'uniform'. It's such an outdated concept and I find it bizarre that schools are able to even dictate which (overpriced) shops the uniform must come from.

I hear arguments from teacher friends about how uniforms are better for low income families, but are they really? Unless the parents do not work, are they even able to claim money off uniforms?

Anyone else agree?

I keep reading this, and I’m sure it appears that I’m the one who wants suits in 6th form! I’m not!!!

I think the original post has been copied so many times I seem to have become the author of it!😭😭😭

NO uniform at 6th form.

Pink hair is not appropriate for a professional environment.

But school or sixth form is not a professional environment, so what one wears in a professional environment is irrelevant. Do you also expect students at university to also wear suits and otherwise conform to a “professional environment” dress code? Or just those studying law etc?

Pink hair is not appropriate for a professional environment.

Depends on the professional environment.

For people who work in advertising, design and certain types of marketing roles it could be fine.

@daisypond

Both schools and sixth forms are professional environments.

Imo it is no coincidence that the vast, vast majority of top independent and state schools and sixty forms have smart and strict uniforms or dress codes.

These establishments know that professional dress is hugely beneficial to students.

Pink hair is not appropriate for a professional environment

I went onto be a designer. Several of us had pink blue hair. Professional environment non?

The school l worked at above. Several staff had pink/blue hair. One had amazing colours that changed every week.

Still an outstanding extremely high performing school.

If the school has laid out its expectations so clearly then the parents have the choice of either agreeing to what the school asks or finding another school.

I'm sure that was covered upthread when it was established that the viable alternatives were giving up your job to homeschool or not getting pregant in the first place!

Both schools and sixth forms are professional environments.

But they’re not. What profession would it be? And why isn’t a university a professional environment, by that logic?

Imo it is no coincidence that the vast, vast majority of top independent and state schools and sixty forms have smart and strict uniforms or dress codes.

Outside of this country, that’s not the case.

Something you repeatedly refuse to engage with.

How come they aren’t all dropouts?

The more I read this thread, perhaps I should be concerned about the poor education my DT’s and their cousins have received in their different schools around the world (London, Belgium, Canada and the US - mixture of state and private) where they have never worn school uniform.
Perhaps it was luck they achieved high grades and university places. My DD is now working for the EU in Brussels - she doesn’t wear a suit nor does my niece at the bank she works for in Luxembourg.

What about the ‘creatives’ who want to dress differently. What about any of them. Why wear a supermarket uniform?

I doubt if even the most uncreative pupil would seriously want to wear a suit in 6th form!

My son likes wearing a suit in sixth form, as do most of his friends. He often chooses to wear it on days when he's allowed to wear sports kit.

Imo it is no coincidence that the vast, vast majority of top independent and state schools and sixty forms have smart and strict uniforms or dress codes.

Um no, not my experience at all.

Pink hair is not appropriate for a professional environment.

The solicitor that dealt with my Ddads will had pink hair (and wasnt wearing a suit!)

Both schools and sixth forms are professional environments.

No they're not! Not for the students anyway. The professionals working in them are the teachers. The students, if anything, are the consumers, not the professionals. A bit like a solicitors is a professional environment, but if you consult one, you are not expected to wear a suit.

"Imo it is no coincidence that the vast, vast majority of top independent and state schools and sixty forms have smart and strict uniforms or dress codes."

You need to dig a bit deeper. These schools only take the top pupils. They pay lip service to diversity, especially disability. They don't struggle for funding. They have no qualms about kicking pupils out. All factors add to why they are top.

"Pink hair is not appropriate for a professional environment."

One of my black African consultants has different colours weaved into her hair. The Nurses have tattoos and piercing plasters. At court via my job role, I've seen barristers starting to buck against what was once considered inappropriate. All of the looks banned at school are becoming allowed in professional life.
The no makeup, plain nails certainly doesn't make sense in schools, if we are looking at what goes in professional life. If Teresa May can wear animal print shoes, then they are suitable for professional life.

Indeed. I can think of one employment judge who has coloured hair and wears biker boots to court.

DS did have to wear a suit for 6th form. It was bloody ridiculous - one of the UK's highest performing independents.

Nothing about school uniform supports the development of style. It's petty and small minded and usually implemented punitively by those who by those who like to dictate rather than broker. One of the main reasons why teachers generally communicate so badly.

Imo it is no coincidence that the vast, vast majority of top independent and state schools and sixty forms have smart and strict uniforms or dress codes.

Imo, having worked in some, it's no surprise they have strict uniforms, but strict uniforms have nothing to do with what makes those schools good.

If the top girls' day school I taught at ditched its uniform, the girls would still be the same incredibly bright, motivated, polite, privileged, well brought-up girls. Their teachers would be the same very highly qualified, professional teachers (enjoying smaller classes and excellent working conditions). The incredible facilities, extracurricular opportunities etc would be the same. So would tye exam resuktsand university entrance figures.

When state schools try to emulate top private schools by having a posh uniform, they are copying the wrong thing. But they are copying the only thing they can copy, because the rest is beyond their means. That's why it doesn't work.

When I was at secondary there were different styles of school skirt you could have in the lovely brown and certain groups had their own version, some pleated short, I had long tight. You can have different hair cuts and hair accessories within the colour range. Same with socks. Bags were a thing of expression as were pencil cases and stud earrings ( I didn't have pierced ears) I think personally understanding their are rules is life.

I think personally understanding their are rules is life.

Absolutely. But not all rules are good or useful rules. Making people obey rules which they see as pointless tends to make them have less respect for rules and for the people making and enforcing them.

My oldest was taught by a teacher with pink hair at one of the top 10 high schools in the US.

She was a great teacher. DD scored 800/800 in the SAT for her subject, which put her in the top 0.25% nationwide and got her a nice scholarship for college.

I wonder what GreenLake's husband would have made of that teacher? Or of the school?

DH is a company president and has worn a suit once in the last five years - it was for an awards event. He actually had to rent a suit as he didn't own one that fit.

When he recruits, he's looking for people with the right qualifications, skill, intelligence, determination and work ethic.

None of these is learnt from being forced to wear a uniform at high school.

I'm curious as to why schools are 'professional environments' requiring uniforms, but universities are not.

[quote GreenLakes]@daisypond

Both schools and sixth forms are professional environments.

Imo it is no coincidence that the vast, vast majority of top independent and state schools and sixty forms have smart and strict uniforms or dress codes.

These establishments know that professional dress is hugely beneficial to students.[/quote]
No, they aren't. Not for the students. For the teachers, maybe, and then I'd still think it was stupid for teachers to have to wear a suit.

You are ridiculously out of touch with the real world.

I’ve just watched (via Zoom) a ceremony for the promotion of two staff as Partners at a top 25 Accountancy firm - no one was wearing a suit.
My sister sent me photos from my nephews Uni graduation at one of the top Unis in Belgium - no suits or even formal outfits.

It shows that a uniform at school or work has no impact onto educational attainment, behaviour or success.

I've only had one job in my life that entailed wearing a uniform. It was McDonalds.

I've worked in telecoms, IT (back when it was called IT), insurance, publishing, management consultancy, manufacturing operations management, journalism, marketing, web design, retail, restaurants...

The most formal wear required was business casual at the insurance company, and that company has since relaxed its attire rules to allow jeans and shorts.