Rigid school uniforms

[Waitrosedisaster]

I've just had the usual letter from my child's secondary school, where it outlines all the dos and don'ts surrounding school uniform for the next academic year.

Is anyone just absolutely sick of the outdated concept of strict uniforms? The nitty gritty details of 'only black or brown hair bobbles', 'no bows on socks', 'all clothes including p.e kit must have the school logo'. Why? Just why? My personal favourite this year is the following 'any piercing other than single lobe piercings will be removed immediately, regardless of when piercing was obtained'. Also, nail varnish and shellac will also be removed immediately? Wtf?

School uniforms (other than being used as a money making scheme) were originally used for purposes not to dissimilar from uniforms for prisons, or mental health units. They were used to strip away a person's individuality and make them more likely to conform and obey as they are effectively 'uniform'. It's such an outdated concept and I find it bizarre that schools are able to even dictate which (overpriced) shops the uniform must come from.

I hear arguments from teacher friends about how uniforms are better for low income families, but are they really? Unless the parents do not work, are they even able to claim money off uniforms?

Anyone else agree?

School uniforms should be practical, comfortable and affordable.

I loved teaching in a non-uniform school. No petty rows over the subtle distinction of when a black shoe becomes a black trainer or if the trousers are too tight on an awkardly growing child.

So much teaching time and goodwill is lost on constantly picking to get perfect uniform and that's to the detriment of learning, not the benefit.

My DCs' uniform is fine and can all be bought generically although some take the logo option. The PTA are also good for second hand.
All the secondaries are strict blazer and tie which will be interesting with a very sensory child who is sensitive to fabrics and fits.

@TeenMinusTests

Given how casual most offices are these days I don’t understand why schools are ever more draconian.

However many jobs do often require a uniform:

• airline pilot
• shop worker
• vet nurse
• railway worker

to name a few.

And if not supplied gratis, these uniforms are heavily subsidised and usually paid for via a dock from the salary.

I agree with you.

And it's telling to me it's just a control exercise when the 2 schools out of 8 within a 10 mile radius of me who are obsessed with infirm and everyone being a clone of each other get worse gcse results year on year.

The kids aren't comfortable and teachers spend time inspecting uniforms and logging it on the online app and not teaching.

I agree with uniforms. But not the complete removal of any individuality.

It's also completely ridiculous to expect all young woman aged between 11 and 16 to all fit into and feel comfortable in the same style skirt.
We aren't all the same size and shape and height for a start.

On the whole I agree. Uniforms in most settings are probably necessary - but details like 'black bobbles' are petty.

@LolaSmiles please explain why leggings, multiple piercings or trainers mean a child cannot learn.

I’ve taught in uniform and non uniform schools.

In the non uniform school - which still had some guidelines like “no crop tops” “no visible underwear” - the amount of fuss over clothes was far, far more time consuming than at a school with uniform.

The conversation about uniform is “That’s not uniform, do you have a uniform one at home? I’ll give parent/carer a call to get that sorted.”

At the non uniform school it was “That’s a crop top. Do you have an alternative?”

And it's telling to me it's just a control exercise when the 2 schools out of 8 within a 10 mile radius of me who are obsessed with infirm and everyone being a clone of each other get worse gcse results year on year

Its like that round here too. Out of the 3 secondary schools actually open to everyone 2 out of the three introduced those over priced tartan monstrosities.

2 /3 used the same uniform.supplier ( one has now moved but its one if those weird open hours stuff so yeah weekend shopping forget it) dds is all online.only. you can wait weeks fir the stuff I'm yet to receive a full order/order without problems and I have to pay 5 quid delivery.

And all have had uniform changes that have meant that stuff saved for siblings is useless.

All have also appeared on the worst schools in the county list at one point 2/3 were and tbe one that didn't was in SM.

So yeah...not convinced it helps grades tbh

But why is anything that you have said important for a child's learning experience? Does it really matter if heaven forbid, a 15 year old has two piercings in each ear lobe? Or someone wears culotte black trousers because they are understandably much more comfortable than the formal type school insist on.
Because it tells you a lot about the attitude that is being promoted at home.

A parent who sees "one ear lobe piercing" and say "oh well DC, we can clearly read the expectations that are on the website and have been sent to us but let's go and get you several piercings and if anyone challenges you then I'll argue with school because your piercing doesn't affect your learning ... it's not like a bit of metal affects your brain pats self on back at how smart they are" is exactly the type of parent who is likely to complain that their child was expected to follow the same rules as everyone else and apparently doesn't consent to the school following their behaviour policy when their child chooses to repeatedly ignore the rules. It's why in normal years there's always dozens of threads on here from posters ranting and raving about the fact their child got detentions "for no reason" when in reality their child has disrupted a lesson, refused to follow instructions and argued back. Said posters are quick to argue that their child shouldn't have to follow any school expectations that they don't like.

As an individual, I couldn't care less if a school has a uniform or a dress code, but when uniforms and dress codes are stated then they need following. If parents have no intention of supporting the basic expectations of school, why send their kids there? Home educate them or find a school that allows them the full freedom to pick and choose what expectations apply to them.

@LolaSmiles

But why is anything that you have said important for a child's learning experience? Does it really matter if heaven forbid, a 15 year old has two piercings in each ear lobe? Or someone wears culotte black trousers because they are understandably much more comfortable than the formal type school insist on. Because it tells you a lot about the attitude that is being promoted at home.

A parent who sees "one ear lobe piercing" and say "oh well DC, we can clearly read the expectations that are on the website and have been sent to us but let's go and get you several piercings and if anyone challenges you then I'll argue with school because your piercing doesn't affect your learning ... it's not like a bit of metal affects your brain pats self on back at how smart they are" is exactly the type of parent who is likely to complain that their child was expected to follow the same rules as everyone else and apparently doesn't consent to the school following their behaviour policy when their child chooses to repeatedly ignore the rules. It's why in normal years there's always dozens of threads on here from posters ranting and raving about the fact their child got detentions "for no reason" when in reality their child has disrupted a lesson, refused to follow instructions and argued back. Said posters are quick to argue that their child shouldn't have to follow any school expectations that they don't like.

As an individual, I couldn't care less if a school has a uniform or a dress code, but when uniforms and dress codes are stated then they need following. If parents have no intention of supporting the basic expectations of school, why send their kids there? Home educate them or find a school that allows them the full freedom to pick and choose what expectations apply to them.

It says absolutely nothing about the attitude being promoted at home. Do you really think I sit around and discuss with my child how ridiculous it is that her school uniform costs me hundreds and hundreds a year? No, I don't, I just stick to it. It doesn't mean I can't complain about it. Children/teens should be allowed to express themselves and their style. I would suggest you do some research on the reasons why uniforms are used in prisons and such and perhaps it will enlighten you as to why it's a ridiculous policy

Uniform is massively expensive. It's cost me £70 to get all the branded stuff I need for my son for reception (state) BUT, totting it up, I'd have spent close to the same if he wore his own clothes.. Really depends where you shop. Logo T-Shirt £8, Cardigans £10 Vs Asda where I can get a 3 pack for about £10 and jumpers that actually fit over his head at about £6. The school jumpers are round necked and do not fit over large heads. Thankfully school don't care if it's logo or not so he has a few for school trips, photo day etx

I quite like uniform at primary level as ours is just quite practical but I have not noticed it being any easier than at nursery when I’m own clothes or holiday clubs when equally in own clothes.

Secondary feels like a different beast and I think blazers are a ridiculous concept for teenagers. In the summer they’re too hot so get crumpled or left. In winter a big coat would be better. I just have never understood the point and hated mine still school.

My son is moving into Secondary school after the summer. I have had to take out a loan to afford everything he will need. After adding everything up, it's £350. I just don't have that kind of money "spare" and things are going to be even tighter paying the loan back.
I just wonder what would happen if parents genuinely cannot afford it? Do the kids get shamed and sent home from school? Are they still entitled to an education?
It's madness!!

My other pet hate is extracurricular activities that require a branded uniform for 3 year olds. Really do I need to pay £40 for a branded t shirt for my toddler to go and shake a rattle at a music class? It annoyed me so much I avoided all classes like that although to be fair I was quite excited to buy my daughter her ballet uniform so I might just be a massive hypocrite.

I'm with you OP it's crazy. When I was at school I had to wear a white polo and the schools own jumper, and then black trousers (or skirt but no one ever close to wear a skirt). Black shoea. And that was it. I could do anything with my hair. Infact their was a phase where we all had our hair in teeny tiny plaits. Almost like corn rows. Not very PC now haha
All this preppy stuff is so sad, no creativity or freedom of expression

I think school uniform should be subsidised or should be basic with no logos. The sweatshirts should be plain and just available in different colours for the school to choose from. The expensive PE kits should be plain joggers and a t shirt with non branded trainer or sports shoe.

This would make it economical.

It says absolutely nothing about the attitude being promoted at home. Do you really think I sit around and discuss with my child how ridiculous it is that her school uniform costs me hundreds and hundreds a year? No, I don't, I just stick to it. It doesn't mean I can't complain about it
Children/teens should be allowed to express themselves and their style. I would suggest you do some research on the reasons why uniforms are used in prisons and such and perhaps it will enlighten you as to why it's a ridiculous policy
It does say something about the attitude at home if a parent sees a fairly simple uniform statement like "plain black school trousers, not fashion trousers" and then goes out and buys fashion trousers. It does send a message if the uniform states no piercings or one ear piercing and the parent decides their child should have several. The message is that they don't think their child has to follow the rules if they don't fancy it.

Maybe instead of telling me to research uniforms you pay attention to the fact I've said I personally don't care if a school has a uniform or a dress code. I'm also against expensive single supplier items for what it's worth. I do think that if a school has a uniform policy or a dress code it should be followed instead of some parents deciding that it doesn't apply to their child.

@PurpleOkapi

The "better for low-income families" argument is nonsense, unless the school is giving them away for free. It may be true that uniforms are cheaper than giving in to a child's every whim when it comes to designer clothes and whatnot. It's not true that a week's worth of uniforms costs less than a week's worth of perfectly appropriate casual clothes that you can get secondhand or at cheap retailers. That's what the comparison should actually be here.

Then you still need a week's worth of casual clothes too because of holidays. School uniforms are in addition to what I have to buy anyway.

I agree, my DC's school has very relaxed uniform rules - basically just set colours and no jeans, otherwise anything goes. And it works just fine, nobody has shown up in a bikini yet. Is a green hair bobble really the end of the world?

@TSSDNCOP

If you selected a school for your child knowing that it had a strict uniform policy, then I think you need to stick to it. It takes so much more energy not to.

And what about when schools change uniform halfway through your child attending there, so you have to cough up for a brand new set of overpriced stuff?

Mine went to non-uniform schools. All the kids wore jeans, tee shirts, hoodies, trainers or Converse.

We have 6 shirts, 2 sweaters, 2 pairs of trousers. All ready to go on Sunday night. No need to think. Quick and Easy.
No reason why this needs to be a uniform though. DS has 7 t shirts, 2 zip hoodies, 2 pairs of cargo shorts, 2 pairs of jeans. He attended school as a keyworker child in casual clothes just as easily.

On our recent school non school uniform day most of the boys wore trackies or jeans, trainers and a hood which were fine.

About 70% of the girls I teach were wearing crop tops, low cut tops, jeans with large holes in with lots of exposed skin etc. Fashion is the fault of the clothes shops but none of those clothes were appropriate for a workplace, I certainly couldn't come in dressed like that, non-school uniform day or not there is a time and a place. I teach science, none of those clothes are appropriate for doing practicals in and serve as a huge Health and Safety issue with so much exposed skin.

If you had a school with no uniform you would still need a dress code as they do in America and then you fall into the issue of policing it and different clothes fit different bodies in different ways and risk many of the girls being sent home for inappropriate (in the workplace) clothing when the boys where something similar are fine. So in effect you've just made a different type of uniform.

*wear

Both our schools also have second hand uniform sales - the larger school sets up a uniform shop (PTA) at least twice a term. Plenty of stuff, including the more expensive sports kit, usually in very good condition and very inexpensive - few £s. If it’s an older style (stuff gets updated) no-one cares. Most of us make use of it - can get a lot of stuff for yr7 start.

Some of your schools sound pretty uptight :)

warmfluffytowels
Schools near me in that situation allowed the Year 10s and 11s to continue wearing the old uniform, so only Years 7-9 made the change. Very few students wear the same items for 5 years. One chain I've heard of provides students with a set of uniform, or all year 7s.

Any school that does a quick full change for everyone is unreasonable in my opinion.