Rigid school uniforms

[Waitrosedisaster]

I've just had the usual letter from my child's secondary school, where it outlines all the dos and don'ts surrounding school uniform for the next academic year.

Is anyone just absolutely sick of the outdated concept of strict uniforms? The nitty gritty details of 'only black or brown hair bobbles', 'no bows on socks', 'all clothes including p.e kit must have the school logo'. Why? Just why? My personal favourite this year is the following 'any piercing other than single lobe piercings will be removed immediately, regardless of when piercing was obtained'. Also, nail varnish and shellac will also be removed immediately? Wtf?

School uniforms (other than being used as a money making scheme) were originally used for purposes not to dissimilar from uniforms for prisons, or mental health units. They were used to strip away a person's individuality and make them more likely to conform and obey as they are effectively 'uniform'. It's such an outdated concept and I find it bizarre that schools are able to even dictate which (overpriced) shops the uniform must come from.

I hear arguments from teacher friends about how uniforms are better for low income families, but are they really? Unless the parents do not work, are they even able to claim money off uniforms?

Anyone else agree?

School uniforms are a lifesaver in our house - the excess time and anxiety on home-clothes days is ridiculous and I wouldn't survive that every day of term.

Uniform is simple for a go-to outfit in the morning. No labels or fashions to worry about. Regulation style, colour (and length) more equitable for all pupils.

Idea is that pupils dress formally for their education and representing their school - sets an expectation & tone. A psychological influence.

Not expensive when comparing cost per wear, and if you size up (take up, in; let down/out). Sports kit (secondary) usually decent quality. Plain hair accessories inexpensive in comparison to fashion items.

Silly to have frequent changes resulting in additional expense though.

Having taught in uniform and non uniform secondary schools, I much prefer non uniform. I found sending children home for wearing the wrong colour socks when they’ve not had breakfast and struggled to even get to school utterly soul-crushing. Plus you could focus on, you know, actual teaching.

I preferred it as a parent too when my children were at a non uniform primary school (so did they). Whatever was clean was worn. Non uniform days are such a novelty, children seem to stress about their clothes in a way that children at non uniform schools don’t on the whole.

Although my older child’s secondary does have a uniform (hardly any non uniform secondaries left) I like the way they talk about it- we had a letter saying that they want to challenge ideas about conventional beauty and that’s why they don’t want students to wear acrylic nails and false eyelashes. Non of this misogynistic stuff about short skirts having an effect on boys which still happens in many schools

I am on low income but I prefer my dc to wear a uniform otherwise my teen girls would constantly want new clothes to stay cool and on trend and it would in the long run cost me more money if uniform didnt exist.

I do think though that some of the items are overpriced.

I do wonder re secondary, is there any need? These days many, many teens shop at Primark regardless of social background. You can tell if uniform is worn or second hand on the first day of Year 7. That marks a card for a whole school year.

I used be a Secondary teacher in the U.K. and I admit that I got fed up having to insist on correct uniform. The head used to say that it was something for the pupils to rebel against, so they wouldn’t rebel against other rules!
I then moved to France 20 years ago, and my three children have been through the French school system where there is no uniform. I have not found it to be a problem. My children have not been dressed in designer clothes, more Primark and supermarket. They have never been bullied for what they wear. The only issue we had was school bags. At one point it was Eastpak, and then Fjällräven Kånken (?), but that would have been the same in the U.K.
I now teach the last year of Primary and I like to see the children’s personalities being expressed in what they wear.

The thing about adult uniform is that there is often a PPE aspect to it as well as it making sense - in a restaurant you want to know who is actually working there. The times I have worn a uniform in adult life were when it made sense and the dress code made sense (e.g hair tied back, no nail varnish, no dangling earings, closed-toe footware not to high a heel etc).

And since when does threatening children with detention over clothing help them study better? Looks like magic and ritual to me.

If uniform was that essential to learning, collages and universities would have them.

I hated mine- the stupid tie use to get cause on the desk and half strangle me, or the horrible girls who bullied me would yank it. I had to be cut out of it once because of that.

My uniform at work is provided for me so it doesn't cost me a penny. It's also refreshed regularly so it stays looking nice. They also don't care what colour or type socks or hair elastic I wear.

Uniform prices are insane, especially for stuff like branded blazers.

It should be simple, comfortable (no wearing blazers on a scorching hot day!) and practical.

Looking at OECD and other statistics internationally, there is no correlation in terms of performance between school uniform being present or not.

I'm a teacher and I agree. I think school uniform is outdated and unnecessary. Most of Europe seem to manage fine without it. If state schools have a uniform, it should be affordable and generic (e.g. any grey school skirt of x length etc).

I also think that if you do have a uniform, there's an argument for having an entirely unisex, trousers-only one, assuming again that you are not too rigid about the cut. I don't buy the whole 'trousers are unflattering' line. School uniform is rarely particularly flattering. Lots of different styles of trousers are available, even if you disallow leggings etc.

Unisex ? So default male then, forgetting that girls may well find skirts easier or more practical or comfortable . Why can't unisex just mean allowing the boys to wear skirts too.

I totally agree.
Ffs our school even set a colour code for face masks.
They focus so much on whether shirts are tucked in they fail to see way more concerning behaviour.
The rules are outdated for many modern workplaces.

My dd never wore trousers to school at secondary and prefers skirts out of school too. No I don't think the default should be trousers at all

Oh and you can tell the less well off kids in uniform anyway.

the excess time and anxiety on home-clothes days is ridiculous and I wouldn't survive that every day of term.

God help these kids when they have to figure out for themselves what is and isn't appropriate for their workplace.

I'd happily have a dress code or a very simple uniform. Unfortunately experience tells me that some parents are apparently incapable of deploying common sense.

This means that what started as "plain black school trousers, no fashion trousers or jeans" means that some parents will buy:
Leggings
Jeggings
Skinny fashion trousers that are basically spray on
Skinny jeans
Low slung black jeans
Cullotes style fashion trousers
Very wide fashion trousers
Trousers with embroidery on them or charms hanging off them
Trousers with large stitched in belts and buckles

Then the parents who are apparently clueless what bog standard school trousers look like will say "but they were in the school section of the shop", missing the point that the shops selling fashion schoolwear are relying on pester power and parents not bothering to read/follow the rules will buy them ^because EVERYONE else is".

Or school uniform says to wear 'plain black leather or leather style school shoes, no trainers' and every year some parents will spend £75 on a pair of black trainers and moan that someone challenged their child. If they show up on Angry People in Local Newspapers then there's usually a sad face photo holding the trainers, whilst parent says they can't afford school shoes after buying their child a pair of branded trainers that's twice the price of school shoes.

A school might say one earring per ear, but some parents think that actually means let my 13 year old have several piercings in school time and be confrontational if anyone points out that my child has to follow the same rules as all the others.

The problem is that a reasonable minority of parents are incapable of following even the simplest uniform codes, so schools have to be increasingly prescriptive.

School uniforms are a lifesaver in our house - the excess time and anxiety on home-clothes days is ridiculous and I wouldn't survive that every day of term

But that wouldn't happen as it'd be normal to wear everyday clothes, rather than uniform. As pp's have said, most countries manage just fine.

The amount of time wasted on how a tie should look, collars buttoned, shirts hanging out, skirts too short etc etc is time better spent on teaching and learning.
And many uniforms wouldn't have looked out of place in the 1920s.

Surely if you don't like uniforms you send them to a school without that policy.

@LolaSmiles

I'd happily have a dress code or a very simple uniform. Unfortunately experience tells me that some parents are apparently incapable of deploying common sense.

This means that what started as "plain black school trousers, no fashion trousers or jeans" means that some parents will buy:
Leggings
Jeggings
Skinny fashion trousers that are basically spray on
Skinny jeans
Low slung black jeans
Cullotes style fashion trousers
Very wide fashion trousers
Trousers with embroidery on them or charms hanging off them
Trousers with large stitched in belts and buckles

Then the parents who are apparently clueless what bog standard school trousers look like will say "but they were in the school section of the shop", missing the point that the shops selling fashion schoolwear are relying on pester power and parents not bothering to read/follow the rules will buy them ^because EVERYONE else is".

Or school uniform says to wear 'plain black leather or leather style school shoes, no trainers' and every year some parents will spend £75 on a pair of black trainers and moan that someone challenged their child. If they show up on Angry People in Local Newspapers then there's usually a sad face photo holding the trainers, whilst parent says they can't afford school shoes after buying their child a pair of branded trainers that's twice the price of school shoes.

A school might say one earring per ear, but some parents think that actually means let my 13 year old have several piercings in school time and be confrontational if anyone points out that my child has to follow the same rules as all the others.

The problem is that a reasonable minority of parents are incapable of following even the simplest uniform codes, so schools have to be increasingly prescriptive.

But why is anything that you have said important for a child's learning experience? Does it really matter if heaven forbid, a 15 year old has two piercings in each ear lobe? Or someone wears culotte black trousers because they are understandably much more comfortable than the formal type school insist on.

@CupoTeap

Surely if you don't like uniforms you send them to a school without that policy.

You think it's that easy? How many non-uniform schools are there in the UK, never mind the county?

@CupoTeap

Surely if you don't like uniforms you send them to a school without that policy.

There aren't many schools in the UK without a uniform

Yes, I hate it! My DC are only in infants and have to wear stiff shorts or tailored trousers, stiff button up shirts with ties, logo jumper, black socks, black shoes. No boots allowed (even in winter when we walk to school), PE kit has to have the logo plus a separate kit for outdoor sports.

It’s all so petty and silly!

Most adults don’t wear shirts, ties and formal trousers to work! Kids have to sit on the floor, need stretchy stuff to play in, why does it matter what colour their hair bobble is?

And the hassle of doing up buttons and trying to find black socks each morning! Adjusting waistbands, trying to do up ties!

Time schools got up to date and made uniforms comfortable, pull on and practical. Eg jersey trousers/joggers in black, navy or brown (or whatever the school colours are), a pull on cotton top/tshirt in school colours, a fleecy jumper or hoody or sweater in school colour. Trainers, boots, shoes, sandals, socks in any colour, hair bobbles in any colour. If the school wants a sense of unity they could design an iron-on patch that attaches to the jumper/sweater!

DT’s went to a non uniform school. From ages 4-18 they wore jeans, T-shirt and hoodies. Shorts if it was hot.

Much easier than specific expensive uniform which everyone hates.

I think the other problem is that schools' tendency to have a formal uniform is driven by parents, who like the aspirational look of the smart blazer and logoed shirt when they're choosing schools (and mistakenly believe smart uniform equals good school and well-behaved kids).

But lots of them probably go off the uniform once they have to actually regularly pay for it and once their dc get detentions for not sticking to it. But it's the prospective parents schools want to appeal to, not the current ones!

Do people also not realise that choosing choosing school is a luxury only the few have.

Try that round here where many schools are iver subscribed and thanks to faith schools and grammar schools and academies you can be surrounded by schools and not qualify fir any if them while people from.15 miles away are bussed in.

Its not a choice its " get thrown.in where there's a space regardless if whether u can.get there or afford the uniform.or not"

I also agree with the nonsense around piercings, hair colour, make up etc.
It seems the rules expressly go at loggerheads with every natural instinct of a teenager when it comes to self expression.
I do not care what colour my dc's hair is. I care if they're happy, confident and trying at their schoolwork.