Rigid school uniforms

[Waitrosedisaster]

I've just had the usual letter from my child's secondary school, where it outlines all the dos and don'ts surrounding school uniform for the next academic year.

Is anyone just absolutely sick of the outdated concept of strict uniforms? The nitty gritty details of 'only black or brown hair bobbles', 'no bows on socks', 'all clothes including p.e kit must have the school logo'. Why? Just why? My personal favourite this year is the following 'any piercing other than single lobe piercings will be removed immediately, regardless of when piercing was obtained'. Also, nail varnish and shellac will also be removed immediately? Wtf?

School uniforms (other than being used as a money making scheme) were originally used for purposes not to dissimilar from uniforms for prisons, or mental health units. They were used to strip away a person's individuality and make them more likely to conform and obey as they are effectively 'uniform'. It's such an outdated concept and I find it bizarre that schools are able to even dictate which (overpriced) shops the uniform must come from.

I hear arguments from teacher friends about how uniforms are better for low income families, but are they really? Unless the parents do not work, are they even able to claim money off uniforms?

Anyone else agree?

Also due to gerrymadering and other odd borders there are places in London that aren't in LEAs at all.

I hate the uniform rules.
So expensive and the boys school is a small, underfunded and unpopular comp.
The head teacher is obsessed. We had a blazer hoo-haa as there is only one uniform supplier for all the schools in our city.
They shut at 5 and don't open on weekends, also 'don't really want to take online orders'. Took us 6 months to get a new blazer (horrible sweaty nylon thing) during lockdown and the school were ridiculous about it. None were coming from the supplier to the uniform shop because of lockdown so no-one in the area could get one. School were aware of this but hassled ds2 every single day, often with head teacher shouting at him. He carried a letter from me with him and a letter from the shop explaining the situation!
Everyone has had a shitty year, clothes are sold out and hard to get hold of, kids are all feeling demoralised by the learning they've missed and schools like ours seem to have their focus all wrong (the teaching was absolutely crap during lockdown).
It winds me up so much, considering how many kids there are at that school who needs financial assistance, that the uniform is so expensive and impossible to actually get hold of.
Also, they now aren't even allowed to remove their blazers in class without permission. They've been sitting mocks in sticky heat and the teacher refused to let them remove blazers for the exam! Has me fuming
Rant over!
In case you hadn't guessed, I completely agree OP

I think uniforms avoid school being so much of a fashion show (although bags, phone etc can still be compared). However I don’t know why they can’t say black trousers white shirt and leave it at that, maybe a cheap branded jumper. No idea why there has to be an expensive old fashioned woolen/uncomfortable uniform. Totally out of date with how the rest of society dresses. In the past, people wore blazers/jumpers/skirts/shirts like that and society expected people to look more formal/neat (people wore hats outside, starched collars, got dressed up to go to the shops etc). The rest of society has moved on and many workplaces are casual or smart casual and people wear joggers/leggings out and this is normal, it is not frowned upon to go most places looking a bit of a mess we are just more casual now. So not sure why schools need all the petty archaic rules about socks and hair bands/nail varnish etc. Maybe it was important for children of the past to learn these “boundaries” and social customs but they are totally out dated now and won’t help children learn how to conform/achieve in society they are just an irrelevant pain in the arse in modern life

There are few countries in the Western World that have uniforms it always make me wonder how German/French/Swedish children adjust to adult hood when they have not grown up wearing uniforms - how do they manage when they have to wear one at work it must be a nightmare - their countries must be in total collapse.

And how do all these foreign parents manage to cope with dressing their children in the mornings without uniforms existing - imaging the bullying in those countries they must all be traumatised.

And those poor Finnish children who do not wear uniform - i mean they only have the widely accepted best education system in the world but they must all be failing with being forced to wear uniforms every day.

Or maybe all these countries just have much better parents who seem to manage their children's clothing, behaviour and transition to adulthood without such draconian methods from 5 years old.

I do think that having a smart, well enforced uniform does help with the setting standards side of things. I can’t explain why but certainly with local schools there seems to be a pattern.

Ds is starting secondary in September in a school which has strict uniform rules now. They provide all pupils with their first uniform and keep costs down across the board as much as possible.

It essentially teaches children there are some rules/laws in life you might not like or agree with but you have to follow, which is true. Why set them up to believe they have a say in everything. My big standard state school in the nineties was at least as strict as that and we weren't allowed any make up or jewellery. The ones pushing the boundaries weren't the ones who couldn't afford uniform there were things in place for that, they were the ones coming in in Ralph Lauren shirts, Lacoste earrings (the boys...) Fancy trainers for PE that were five times more expensive than plain black tennis Reebok classic or similar. They were also the pupils pushing boundaries and misbehaving in other areas disrupting lessons for the rest of us, with parents who endlessly backed their little darlings. I don't think it's any coincidence that the worst 'offenders' literally are offenders now. It's the same mindset, that doesn't apply to me, I can do what I want etc.

@Upamountain43 those countries generally have a culture around parental and personal responsibility that just doesn't exist in the UK as a whole. Generally more socially responsible, law abiding etc

It's a bit odd you're more perplexed about kids not being able to wear shellac nails than a green hair bobble.

Uniforms aren't the issue, 3000 petty rules are. Ours need grey or black bottoms, yellow top, blue jumper. PE is dark trainers, dark bottoms, white top. Ok primary but the equivalent is possible for secondary

@DoubleTweenQueen

School uniforms are a lifesaver in our house - the excess time and anxiety on home-clothes days is ridiculous and I wouldn't survive that every day of term.

Uniform is simple for a go-to outfit in the morning. No labels or fashions to worry about. Regulation style, colour (and length) more equitable for all pupils.

Idea is that pupils dress formally for their education and representing their school - sets an expectation & tone. A psychological influence.

Not expensive when comparing cost per wear, and if you size up (take up, in; let down/out). Sports kit (secondary) usually decent quality. Plain hair accessories inexpensive in comparison to fashion items.

Silly to have frequent changes resulting in additional expense though.

There wouldn’t be the anxiety/novelty of home clothes if they wore them every day. I wore uniform at secondary then own clothes for 6th form and it was exciting at first/everyone dressed their best/looking on trend was a big deal. After about 3 weeks no one cared it noticed what anyone wore and it was much easier than uniform. I think the psychological influence of working better in a uniform is a myth too-many offices have more causal dress codes, many people wfh, and pupils in Europe and America and universities manage to achieve without a uniform. Pupils who want to learn will do so wearing anything and a uniform won’t motivate anyone who doesn’t want to learn

@PurpleOkapi Workplaces do have a clothing code of sorts, but also grownups don't often experience a similar level of angst or peer pressure our young teens are often under :)

Also, schools have differences in uniform and stringency/enforcement. Our uniform is inexpensive - plain black blazer, striped shirt or plain white with tie, black or grey skirt/trousers. Couple of options for skirt style. All fairly innocuous. Individual interpretation fine to a degree. No-one ever sent to isolation/detention/home for wrong colour socks!
Private school though.
During open windows for ventilation since schools back, more relaxed in that games kit/skins/coats could be piled on at least to keep students warm
Recently asked if we wanted to keep blazer or move to smart jumper instead.

Uniform is much quicker/simpler/less time, anxiety and cash-consuming for us, that's all

Uniforms aren't the issue, 3000 petty rules are. Ours need grey or black bottoms, yellow top, blue jumper. PE is dark trainers, dark bottoms, white top. Ok primary but the equivalent is possible for secondary

Yy I mean this patented shade of grey stuff is a big problem.

And you can pick up a a black/navy tracksuit top in tesco but the hood is suddenly a problem. Y? It's for pe on a field there's no one who's gonna see it.

Its also very hard to buy plain black sports leggings without a logo. Why is a UA or a Nike logo a problem. Uts an hour twice a week.

School uniforms are a lifesaver in our house - the excess time and anxiety on home-clothes days is ridiculous and I wouldn't survive that every day of term.

So how will they handle the real world? My 3.5 yo can pick out a shirt and trousers as well as grab his coat, hat, and shoes before we take him to nursery. We just make sure its weather appropriate.

The cost of uniforms is ridiculous. One bloody jumper with the school logo £24 yet I can go to H&M and get a nice shirt for £7.99 (one pictured is £8.99) and a pair of chinos for £7.99. The little boy in the picture looks pretty smart to me. Children can still look “smart” without uniforms.

I think the logos thing should have to go , some are even encouraging embroidered names which is great if stuff gets lost , but then they can't be passed on . Secondary School Uniforms have always been expensive and people used to save with the school uniform shops ,and badges were hand sewn on but they have taken it to a new level , and sometimes they change them when they find a new supplier or change the Academy gets a new sponsor . Its become a bit of a racket .

One of the reasons my daughter doesn’t go to school is because of uniform.

She’s autistic. Can’t tolerate the cheap polyester straight jacket style clothing schools insist on. But equally can’t tolerate being the ‘odd one out’ not wearing the uniform.

If it was a polo shirt and joggers for everyone, she’d be fine.

My kids have just finished school couldn't have come quickly enough - 13 year of daft uniform rules and we followed them all - daft or not. Total vanity project for the school's leadership team - wished they had focused on the shit teaching but we were all paying for tutors so why bother!

I don't think this is too bad. At my school (state comp) we were only supposed to wear simple studs or sleepers and only 1 piercing per ear. Necklaces had to be inside our jumpers and 1 simple ring. Only 'senior girls' could wear make up and I know more than one girl who had to go and wash her face in the head of year's office.

We pushed against all of these little boundaries. I always had a necklace outside my jumper lol

Uniform is massively expensive. It's cost me £70 to get all the branded stuff I need for my son for reception (state) BUT, totting it up, I'd have spent close to the same if he wore his own clothes. He still needs trousers, jumpers, t shirts etc. He just needs less of them now that he'll spend 5 days a week in uniform. It's also a gender neutral uniform so a good chunk can be passed to his sister when she starts

Unisex ? So default male then, forgetting that girls may well find skirts easier or more practical or comfortable . Why can't unisex just mean allowing the boys to wear skirts too.

I wear trousers. I'm not a man. Trousers are not male. Skirts are a problem because of length. Having only trousers removes that problem and also the possibility of the rules for girls and boys being perceived as unequal. It also means that any gender identity issues won't result in people wearing the 'wrong' uniform.

Hair accessories have been a huge issue at our primary school.
Stupid , oversized bows were a thing a while ago which were plain silly.
Younger girls were , and still are , wearing rigid plastic cat ear shaped headbands. Given that children often fell over each other and clashed heads, these were dangerous.

However, secondary schools insisting on overpriced tartan skirts and expensive logo blazers needs to be addressed.

I bought my daughter a stupidly expensive lab coat , as it was compulsory, only to discover that she never, EVER, wore it.

I'm in two minds as school uniform at my children's secondary is incredibly strict and very expensive.
However if children can wear what they want I can imagine the bullying if you wear the same outfit twice in a week or have the wrong jeans.
I'd prefer a school uniform that is just a white shirt and black bottoms with maybe a tie. Then plain t shirt, shorts /joggers for PE. No logos and can be brought fairly cheaply at the supermarket.

@lazylinguist as a tall woman I'm going to disagree with you there. I wore skirts at school because I found it really hard to find trousers long enough for me. I could 'get away' with skirt lengths a lot better.

Things are better now with getting tall clothes but still not ideal. I suspect my daughter will be quite skirt focused at school for the same reasons.

FWIW our school has both trousers and skirts / dresses in the uniform. It just doesn't define who wears which.

Because girls school trousers are crap. They don't fit very well.

750 girls all.at varying stages of development all trying to squeeze into 2 acceptable styles of trousers just isn't happening.

For some skirts will fit better . Won't end up half way up the shins if there dare be tall and slim or trail across the floor if they are short and curvier.

I couldn’t disagree more. The people complaining about uniform prices are funny as they would have to buy many sets of normal clothes if not uniform so uniform is cheaper. Even if you buy five sets it is more cost effective than many outfits for children. Secondary, children will waste time every morning and there will be tantrums and too much negotiations every morning of what shall I wear. Oh no you can’t wear that. That’s too short. Some children might get bullied as they will go for Emo clothes or mosher clothes like when we were young and that is a distraction to the class. It just opens up many doors that are best closed. Children feel psychologically ready to go into school when they’re in their uniform as well and everyone is equal in it. They’re free to wear their own clothes any other time they wish or on the weekend. School isn’t the place to express their “individuality” or those kinds of things.

Also young little girls with many piercings look 🤮. Nobody wants to see that stuff. It is better to be classic and minimal than to wear all the bling bling to school and make those around you feel sick when they look at your tongue or belly and it was a big piercing on it. I mean it’s disgusting to look at on adults never mind children.

I prefer strict guidelines as it saves interpreting them. My DD's didn't have uniform at upper school, from 14, and it was a nightmare! All the low level teasing and bullying over brands, letters home about girls wearing inappropriate clothing, shorts too short etc. I was relieved when dd2 chose to change schools at 16 to one with ultra strict uniform

We were never allowed piercings at school - including lobes. You know this so you therefore don't allow your kids to get pierced except for right at the start of the summer holidays so they can heal in time to be removed at the start of term.

I don't know why you're so shocked, seems standard uniform policy to me.