Rigid school uniforms

[Waitrosedisaster]

I've just had the usual letter from my child's secondary school, where it outlines all the dos and don'ts surrounding school uniform for the next academic year.

Is anyone just absolutely sick of the outdated concept of strict uniforms? The nitty gritty details of 'only black or brown hair bobbles', 'no bows on socks', 'all clothes including p.e kit must have the school logo'. Why? Just why? My personal favourite this year is the following 'any piercing other than single lobe piercings will be removed immediately, regardless of when piercing was obtained'. Also, nail varnish and shellac will also be removed immediately? Wtf?

School uniforms (other than being used as a money making scheme) were originally used for purposes not to dissimilar from uniforms for prisons, or mental health units. They were used to strip away a person's individuality and make them more likely to conform and obey as they are effectively 'uniform'. It's such an outdated concept and I find it bizarre that schools are able to even dictate which (overpriced) shops the uniform must come from.

I hear arguments from teacher friends about how uniforms are better for low income families, but are they really? Unless the parents do not work, are they even able to claim money off uniforms?

Anyone else agree?

I did get annoyed when my older DD was told her shoes should be entirely black and the soles were yellow! But I sent a note in explaining how hard it is to get shoes that accommodate her high instep and wide feet, and the teacher leg it drop. They were leather, polished and sensible just had the wrong colour sole 🙄

I mean, this what I'm referring to when say schools need to stop making up petty rules - who the hell cares what colour soles someone has on their shoes?! It's bonkers. I can't believe grown adults sit there and think rules like that make sense

I take a measured approach to uniform enforcement. I call out trainers, ridulously short skirts, jeans.

However, when you have watched a child not turn up to school for the 3rd "non uniform day" in the last week of term (and not turn up for days 4 and 5) because he didn't have enough clothes to come in different outfits, then you know uniform is the right thing to do. Noone knows if you're wearing the same trousers 5 days in a row if everyone is wearing the same.

Try teaching on a "mufti" day. Like a zoo.

Try teaching on a "mufti" day. Like a zoo.

But isn't it like that because it's a novelty?

@StrangeToSee

Perhaps there is a correlation between your DC’s school accepting poor uniform and having a ‘not great’ OFSTED.

It is no coincidence that the vast majority of excellent schools have smart uniform policies that are strictly enforced.

A DC appearing at the DCs’ school with a top button undone or yellow shoes will be straight into a one hour detention, so it very rarely happens.

Totally agree OP. The problem isn’t the idea of uniform - that’s fine - it’s that schools insist on sticking to ridiculous concepts that haven’t changed since the 1950s. Why are girls wearing ties? Women don’t wear ties why should girls?

Uniform at a Chinese primary school? A red tracksuit. Cheap, practical, comfy and in my view much nicer looking than the funeral-type dress we put our kids in.

Uniform at a UK primary school? Dull colours that children hate, usually grey or navy. Pull up socks and skirts that a girl can’t exercise in without either flashing her knickers or wearing sweaty cycling shorts underneath which will make UTIs / thrush worse. Plus a compulsory logo jumper that costs £17-25 from one supplier, altho a plain one would only cost £5 at Sainsburys. Shoes she can’t run in properly.

It isn’t any better for boys. Sure the shoes are more practical, but girls usually get the choice between skirt or dress, and can choose between different dress styles / hair accessories. Boys have no way at all to express any of their personality. At our state primary school they aren’t allowed to wear trousers until age six, only shorts. So bare legs in winter for boys, but girls can wear tights (shameless sex and age discrimination).

And the overriding message chikdren are given from the age of four in UK is that what matters most isn’t how you feel or even how you behave - it’s how you look.

Meant to say boys aren’t allowed trousers until YEAR six.

My dd is starting primary in August and I'm already annoyed at her uniform. It's navy so of course all the cheap uniform is black/grey. Embroidered polo's preferred at 10 a go. Embroidered cardigans at 14 a go. For a 4yo! 2 pairs of shoes, 1 indoor and 1 outdoor. How do they expect people to be able to afford this 2/3 times a year?

I'm all for uniforms but don't think there should be all the silly little rules for example only allowing certain coloured hair ties. Why does that even matter?!

I also hate that most of the uniform for the secondary school here can only be purchased from one shop- it's massively over priced and terrible quality.

DS has been wearing his PE kit on PE days throughout this school year because they weren't allowed to use the changing rooms. He's so much more comfortable especially in warmer weather. I'm really hoping they keep it that way, changing must take up a chunk of the lesson anyway.

[quote GreenLakes]@StrangeToSee

Perhaps there is a correlation between your DC’s school accepting poor uniform and having a ‘not great’ OFSTED.

It is no coincidence that the vast majority of excellent schools have smart uniform policies that are strictly enforced.

A DC appearing at the DCs’ school with a top button undone or yellow shoes will be straight into a one hour detention, so it very rarely happens.[/quote]
Bonkers!
Does an undone top button stop learning? (My 2 never fasten it and the way the tie sits hides that it's open)
Same with yellow soled shoes. Has no bearing on ability to learn

"I wouldn’t want to wear a polyester blouse, it would be itchy, sweaty and offer no warmth in summer nor any breath ability or wicking in summer. Would you want to wear one?

I just don’t see why button up polyester shirts can’t be replaced by T-shirt’s or turtlenecks?"

Appreciate that fabric is important to you from your posts. Fair enough. It isn't to my family. I couldn't tell you the polyester to cotton content of any top I wear. I can tell you that my sons have worn a variety of school shirts of different fabrics. My son finds the 100% organic cotton shirts (bought by accident from M&S) thicker and therefore sweatier in summer than the poly cotton ones (plus they're hard to iron). Neither son has ever commented on the polycotton mix shirts being itchy, sweaty or anything else. They would put a turtle neck in that category though.

In terms of sportswear, the base layer and activewear clothes are nearly all artificial and are supposedly designed to be breathable and wickable. Hence why they're worn by elite sportspeople.

And this is the essence of a debate over school uniform; we all like different things, fabrics, uniform or own clothes etc etc. I'm sure it's impossible for school to please us all...

Perhaps there is a correlation between your DC’s school accepting poor uniform and having a ‘not great’ OFSTED. It is no coincidence that the vast majority of excellent schools have smart uniform policies that are strictly enforced. A DC appearing at the DCs’ school with a top button undone or yellow shoes will be straight into a one hour detention, so it very rarely happens.

A correlation, I hadn’t thought of that. I viewed the school and liked it, agreed with its nurturing principles, and chose it based on that not Offstead. It’s a primary school although the uniform rules are fairly strict; button up shirts, logo jumpers, tie, logo PE kit right from age 4.

I’d be horrified with a school that put children into detention for not doing up a top button! That sounds so cruel and uncaring. How can the child work properly if they feel their neck is restricted?

As for the shoes, only the soles were yellow. Thankfully the teacher saw sense and allowed her to keep wearing them once I complained.

[quote GreenLakes]@StrangeToSee

Perhaps there is a correlation between your DC’s school accepting poor uniform and having a ‘not great’ OFSTED.

It is no coincidence that the vast majority of excellent schools have smart uniform policies that are strictly enforced.

A DC appearing at the DCs’ school with a top button undone or yellow shoes will be straight into a one hour detention, so it very rarely happens.[/quote]
Not round my way.

The 2 schools with the strict uniform are the lowest performing and getting worse year on year.

One has just lost its outstanding ofsted rating and the other witches to academy as failing and it still is.

The highest 2 performing schools have a polo and v neck sweatshirt uniform, black shoes (inc black lace up converse for girls) and knee length skirt in uniform colour or trousers.

They have excellent teaching and learning and focus on the right things such as behaviour for learning and being part of society and teaching learning behaviours and a curriculum.

They realise that a blazer does not an A* grade make

@Skysblue

A few decades ago all boys had to wear shirts to school until well into secondary. They all survived so I can’t see that it is a big deal or causing any harm to expect shorts until year 6.

There’s no point in having a uniform policy if DC are in all sorts of variations and it is not work properly. That is why the very best schools expect high standards of uniform- it’s about inculcating a culture of high expectations and high effort

Schools job to enforce uniform.

Kids job to try to get round it.

It was ever thus.

[quote GreenLakes]@Skysblue

A few decades ago all boys had to wear shirts to school until well into secondary. They all survived so I can’t see that it is a big deal or causing any harm to expect shorts until year 6.

There’s no point in having a uniform policy if DC are in all sorts of variations and it is not work properly. That is why the very best schools expect high standards of uniform- it’s about inculcating a culture of high expectations and high effort[/quote]
If you’re defining the ‘very best’ schools as top of the league tables, then the evidence doesn’t support your argument that they all have strict uniform standards. Westminster and St Paul’s boys generally look scruffy, St Paul’s Girls’ doesn’t even have a uniform.

In terms of sportswear, the base layer and activewear clothes are nearly all artificial and are supposedly designed to be breathable and wickable. Hence why they're worn by elite sportspeople. And this is the essence of a debate over school uniform; we all like different things, fabrics, uniform or own clothes etc etc. I'm sure it's impossible for school to please us all...

Yes, everyone has their preferences. That’s why I feel uniform should be more relaxed and offer choices.
Eg instead of button up shirts have the option of a tshirt or polo shirt instead (most of which are pure cotton but can be found in polyester blends if that’s your preference). Scrap the ties, they’re outdated and serve no purpose. Have a choice of colours and styles of trouser (if school colours are purple, grey and navy let them choose). And does it matter if trousers are relaxed fit leggings on primary children, or bootcut, or skinny fit stretch, or loose flowy viscous? Or plain thermal jeggings in winter? A sweater or jumper or fleece in a school colour, with an iron on logo, gives children and parents the choice of where to buy from to suit their budget, choice of materials etc.

Sportswear is indeed wickable (and often base layers are for compression) and usually synthetic... but children aren’t athletes sweating buckets. They just need clothing that’s breathable and I don’t feel polyester shirts fit the bill. They’re neither breathable nor stretchy. Great if your kids like them but mine don’t.

Maybe I’m projecting a bit but I’ve always bought natural fabrics for mine, like organic cotton or merino wool (kinder to sensitive or rash prone skin) so dressing them in polyester and nylon feels odd! Not to mention it’s not eco friendly and wears out after half a term. Our school insists uniform is washed daily (Covid) hence why we have 5 sets per child!

Their PE kits are all pure cotton ironically with a bit of Lycra (cotton logo tees, joggers, cotton hoodies, shorts) and a cotton PE bag with logo.

The only thing we can choose are their coats!

expect shorts until year 6

Do schools really do this? Insist primary kids wear shorts all winter, even if they walk to school and it’s below freezing or snowing?

That sounds cruel and archaic to me.

I completely agree it is just nonsense. I don"t mind uniforms as such but they should be cheap and comfortable and allow for a bit of individualism. It seems to work at lots of Primary schools. Uniform can be bought from supermarket in various styles, usually a polo shirt with trousers/skirt/dress. School logo not compulsory, kids can take off their jumper when they wish and no petty rules around hair bands/socks etc.

I can't stand this move towards shirts, ties and blazers at secondary schools. And the ridiculous sixth forms that insist on 'business wear'...when they'll be wearing jeans and hoodies at Uni pretty soon!

We have one sensible Secondary near us that has black basics with a polo shirt as uniform. Minimal makeup and jewellery is allowed Unfortunately still a blazer but at least more comfy than a shirt and tie. Their sixth formers can wear what they like. They have the best reputation too so the lack of shirt/tie hasn't had a detrimental effect.

@StrangeToSee

Expecting shorts until year 6 doesn’t seem like a huge deal at all to me.

It was common practice only a few decades ago, and is clearly a tradition that this particular school has chosen to keep. I suspect it is also no coincidence that many of the most prestigious prep schools still have this expectation in place.

The whole point of a uniform is that all DC look the same. Yes, there may be rare occasions when amendments are required in response to extreme weather conditions. But this should not be a major issue in the UK.

I teach. In one of the most deprived areas of the UK. I am pretty much on the fence when it comes to uniform, personally. What I can tell you is schools locally that take it seriously are the better ones - best reputations, best results.

@StrangeToSee

expect shorts until year 6

Do schools really do this? Insist primary kids wear shorts all winter, even if they walk to school and it’s below freezing or snowing?

That sounds cruel and archaic to me.

Yes, plenty of them do.

Many schools also have "shirt sleeve order" so you can't take off your jumper/blazer in the summer months until the headmaster gives permission

Funny how the vast majority of the world have no or fewer uniform rules and perform just as well/better than here! My niece and nephew live in Switzerland - no uniform there - no problems with their attainment level either!

@onlyreadingneverposting8

Funny how the vast majority of the world have no or fewer uniform rules and perform just as well/better than here! My niece and nephew live in Switzerland - no uniform there - no problems with their attainment level either!

Stop being sensible

Uniforms are REALLY important and schools would collapse in riots if we didn't have them

@Evvyjb

I take a measured approach to uniform enforcement. I call out trainers, ridulously short skirts, jeans.

However, when you have watched a child not turn up to school for the 3rd "non uniform day" in the last week of term (and not turn up for days 4 and 5) because he didn't have enough clothes to come in different outfits, then you know uniform is the right thing to do. Noone knows if you're wearing the same trousers 5 days in a row if everyone is wearing the same.

Try teaching on a "mufti" day. Like a zoo.

If they didn't have to wear uniform they could have spent that money on clothes in Primark/supermarket. Their parents could even score some great deals on sale events

Like I said previously I have jeans from Primark that lasted much better through multiple children than the expensive uniform did in 2 months

Expecting shorts until year 6 doesn’t seem like a huge deal at all to me. It was common practice only a few decades ago, and is clearly a tradition that this particular school has chosen to keep. I suspect it is also no coincidence that many of the most prestigious prep schools still have this expectation in place. The whole point of a uniform is that all DC look the same. Yes, there may be rare occasions when amendments are required in response to extreme weather conditions. But this should not be a major issue in the UK.

I find it barbaric that 4-10 year olds are made to wear shorts all year at some schools! The U.K. is cold, wet and windy most of the year. In winter temperatures often stay below freezing for weeks especially in the north. I can’t imagine letting my child go out with bare legs in winter. Shivering in the playground, chilled in lessons (thanks to covid and the doors being wide open all year).

It may well be traditional but so were things like corporal punishment and fox-hunting until recently. Times change. Would you wear shorts on a cold December morning when it’s minus 2 and sleet is falling? Poor kids.

As if making them ‘look the same’ helps them learn and enjoy learning? How?
In some countries boys must have their hair shaved to a crew cut for school. Do you think that helps them learn?