AIBU- Dog vs neighbours allergic child !

[Henryhoover12]

Please can someone tell us if we’re being unreasonable or our neighbours are. We moved to a new house and really got on with our neighbours they are very lovely and we spend lots of time speaking to them. We mentioned that we were purchasing a dog In which they had mortified looks on their faces and explained their DC is extremely allergic to dogs (e.g can’t be in class with anyone who owns a dog etc has been in hospital) we kind of brushed it off and said we can speak about it closer to the time.

After that everytime we bumped into them they kept asking if we “changed our minds” which we found so awkward but in the end we told them not getting a dog wasn’t an option is we have always wanted one but are happy to work things out so it’s safe for their child. They took this badly and didn’t speak to us for a while. Closer to us picking up the dog we went around and asked what they would like us to do to ensure safety for their child.

One of the (long list of) rules was that we didn’t let the dog out while their child was in the garden. This seemed fine at the time until we realised their child is ALWAYS in the garden. And I mean always they have a little treehouse type thing that they play in so come rain and sunshine they are out there. At first we tried to play ball like if our dog wanted to wee we would walk him to the park 10 minutes but now it’s just getting ridiculous so we have started letting him go to wee when it’s raining outside because we really can’t be asked to walk 20 minutes just for that. The last time we did the mum came our and shouted at me saying I’m going to kill her child. AIBU to think that our dog has every much right to use our garden as the child? Our poor dog loves to be outside but is trapped inside because of this and I’m starting to think it’s really unfair

what? walk from house to house in all that dangerous open air

Stick her in a bubble and roll her over?

I sympathise with them, it must be hard. But they're being dicks about it.
To tell you not to let your dog out while their kid is out, and then let their kid out all day is just selfish and unappreciative.

They're going to have to stop letting their kid out when your dog is out. And making you park elsewhere is utter bullshit.

Allergy shots, also known as immunotherapy, are regular injections of small amounts of your allergy triggers over a period of three to five years

Study on Immunotherapy for pet hair

Current information on allergen immunotherapy in pet allergy suggests that it can be effective in reducing allergic symptoms

Allergy shots, or immunotherapy, have been shown to eradicate pet allergies entirely in as much as 80% of patients who take the full course

HedgeVeg

I'm probably talking out of my arse; but isn't there some merit in very mild exposure to an allergen (particularly with children) to slowly reduce it?

Not if you are anaphylactic and tiny traces can cause a potentially deadly reaction, no. Maybe with a less severe allergy, yes.

See this is where being nice and accommodating get people.

It's your home. Unless there a covenants on the land you are legally allowed to own pets.

They have no legal right to impose anything on you.

@tenredthings

If they have family in other houses on the street maybe they could swap houses with them ?

That's actually a really good suggestion... I wonder how flexible and accommodating they'll be then?!

Maybe we shouldn't be calling the parents so many names? Even if they are wrong, a little understanding would be nice.

In fairness to OP they have been very accommodating and have followed a LIST of rules.

They say all the neighbours are very pleasant.

BUT they feel totally unappreciated and unfairly dealt with when the mum screamed out of the window that they were trying to kill the DD. They were not.

This is the problem. How the mum has dealt with it.

I don't think the OP sounds an unreasonable person. Nor does she want to hurt this little girl or her family. And it is a serious issue at stake here.

A middle ground needs to be found. Is there someone who could sort of 'mediate' ( i know that sounds over the top) a better working situation for both sides. You have to live your life there. And both
sides need to be considered here.
^
^
How is this thread still going 🙈*

Why do people even do this ? ⬆️
Because I am surprised it's still going?*

yes, fascinating. kind of trivialises everyone else's interest.

I’m sure it is terrifying and exhausting to live with the fear, but the degree of their fear doesn’t mean that they can control the lifestyle of the person living next to them. If they want that degree of control then they either need no neighbours or to buy the house and move family into it.

I have trauma and fear responses but part of dealing with those is reminding myself that it is not OK to demand that others refrain from doing perfectly ordinary things because they trigger a response in me.

@Andrea87

OP you might have never seen someone with severe allergies fighting for their life - on oxygen , all colour draining, unconscious, not knowing whether they will survive the next 5 minutes , hour or day. It is one of the scariest things to witness with someone who you love and that stays with you. I assume your neighbour‘s child has such a severe allergy where this has happened and their parents are doing their utmost to protect their child from this happening again. Their lives are not easy. For those who can breathe easily it is as if the tube to the lungs contract and you are struggling to breathe. Imagine having a straw to breathe through your mouth - how long can you do this without being fatigued and you know that you can take the straw out any time. If you have asthma it is a bit like that in an attack and you have so little to breathe through and you can’t change that - it is frightening and often fatal. I also assume it is something like a breathing allergy - asthma kills many people in this country and because many more have mild or moderate asthma, people equate asthma as being something that is easy to manage - but there are many cases where life style is compromised. It sounds like your neighbour's life is compromised in so many ways and the one place that is a safe place for her to go ie the garden is now also Unsafe. It is a very difficult life when you are constantly on a look out for triggers that may cause an extreme reaction - a trigger that is airborne and cannot be seen but is there. I haven’t read all the posts but you mentioned about having to park the car a bit further from your house - is that really so bad? It is a few extra steps that may protect the child from a potential fatal health scare. When I go out and I come in contact with dogs , I strip as soon as I get home, everything goes straight into the washing machine and I have a long shower to get rid of any Allergens that I might have picked up. It is not an easy life but I have to do this to protect someone else at home. I assume as you knew about the severity of this allergy that you bought a hypoallergenic dog - that may mitigate but not exclude the danger. Imagine what it is like for the parents who see this danger everywhere, it is not an easy life. I love dogs, I grew up with them and would love to have one, however I realise I shall never be able to own one again. Any way practicalities - you say you have a fence and bushes either side to give this a buffer zone, which may sound reasonable to you however Allergens have a way of spreading - I know someone who will start sneezing if a cat walks through the other end of the garden or if a cat has sat on the garden furniture some time ago. The Allergens stay and cause havoc to cause allergic reaction. Practicalities and apologies if this has been mentioned before , I haven’t read all the 900+ posts . Can you talk to your neighbour and an allergy nurse together and come up with solutions. The idea that the one safe space is compromised is not fair for her, the idea that your dog cannot go out into the garden is not fair for it. However remember that the Allergens stay after your dog has gone inside. So maybe you can have a zone away from the neighbours garden for it to use so the distance is greater. Maybe you can have it on a long lead with it being attached to a long rope down the garden away from the neighbours property so it can run up and down, or the end of the long lead is held by a stake in the ground. This will Control the distance it is from the boundary and not difficult to do. Maybe you can have a bell and ring this to signal that you are letting the dog out in 5 minutes to give the child 5 minutes warning to come in. I feel for you as you must love your dog very much, but I feel for your neighbour too who cannot change the severity of the allergies of their child. It is not an easy way of life and if they seem paranoid at times it is understandable to people who have witnessed a life threatening attack. As to what they do at school, we can speculate all we like but if school has put something into place such as the child sitting away from other children etc it may well be quite an isolating life there too. I don’t think it is about the legalities here - yes we are allowed to keep dogs legally - but what is morally right. Imagine your life already being compromised to this extent where your child is living such an isolating and perhaps lonely life. They can’t do things that many will take for granted. It is not a life that you wish for her or her parents and they won’t have made this up. It must be very hard for them to see you got a dog even after they have explained to your that this would be one of their greatest fears. Apologies if I am rambling but it is something that affects my life so much and I come across people who don’t understand amd this post has upset me so i may not be coherent. I wish you all the best and that you can come up with a solution.

But where is the line drawn on this?

The OP isn't parking at the end of her drive "a few extra steps away"- they've asked her to park at the end of the street.
It sounds like they've asked her to take the dog out of a seperate entrance.
The dog cannot use the garden, the dog must remain in certain areas of the house.
Presumably, OP is being asked to wash with certain detergents and never herself (or her husband) be within a certain distance of the child / parents / household.
This is not the OP's responsibility, and its not concrete that this will even protect the child.

All of the above could be avoided by the parent's taking action and moving themselves, rather than expecting everyone to move around them.

A little bit like standing in the middle of the road and asking all the traffic to move around you to keep you safe, instead of getting yourself out of the road and onto the pavement.

I think it’s unfair to be mad at the mother for screaming.

For her to see a dog must be similar to a normal person seeing a lion.

You don’t think rationally when faced with such a fear.

@DownSideUpped

HedgeVeg

I'm probably talking out of my arse; but isn't there some merit in very mild exposure to an allergen (particularly with children) to slowly reduce it?

Not if you are anaphylactic and tiny traces can cause a potentially deadly reaction, no. Maybe with a less severe allergy, yes.

This has caught my interest and I'm doing some research avoiding being productive

It looks like immunotherapy can be effective even with severe reactions, its all done in a controlled environment where the allergen is given with medical staff on hand and all the relevant antihistimines etc ready to go.

I'm sure it's deeply unpleasant - but (and forgive me for the comparison if its offensive) chemotherapy is also deeply unpleasant, but its a means to an end.

Immunotherapy looks like it takes 3-5 years; horrific and uncomfortable - but I'm sure most people would agree 5 years of therapy for a lifetime of freedom is a fair price?

@BoxHedge

I think it’s unfair to be mad at the mother for screaming.

For her to see a dog must be similar to a normal person seeing a lion.

You don’t think rationally when faced with such a fear.

LOVE the user name - you're not in the Channel Islands too are you?

really difficult one

it's a shame the sellers/estate agent didn't know, or they did know but didn't mention this when you viewed the property. If they had would it have effected your decision?

I find it unreasonable to get a dog after you'd found out - you could have waited a few years then moved. But as other pp say, what if you already had a dog? Or what if your next home has a similar problem?

I think there is some onus on the NDN to protect their child without controlling others' lives. Maybe a daft idea - but if it was my child I'd look into getting some kind of poly tunnel for the child to play in, or some kind of cover at least.

must be a nightmare to have a child with this allergy :(

@DuchessDarty Indeed. Although I'm not surprised it's got to 870 posts so quickly - dogs, allergies, nightmare neighbours - it's got everything MN loves for a good old froth.

I have a feeling that you may want to start another thread @Henryhoover12 if you want this to continue or keep us informed on whatever happens between you and your neighbours as we're getting very close to the magic 1000 posts on a thread limit.

I can't understand why some of her relatives as she lives so close to so many of them can't offer either to swap houses with the parents of this child so that they have a dog free house on both sides of them or at least take their niece/grandchild into their gardens to play so that your dog can go into its garden.

That's the stance I would take going forward - it is not your job to sort out a solution, you've been more than accommodating in the past year under lockdown rules and regulations but as they are easing, the parents of this clearly ill child should have put in place some other options for their daughter to be able to play and you're no longer going to keep your dog indoors as you bought this home to live in and not to be held to the rules and regulations being applied by a neighbour.

I'd love to know if the home was an executor sale or not. Did the sellers give you any indication that the neighbours had this issue before you bought?

@BoxHedge

I think it’s unfair to be mad at the mother for screaming.

For her to see a dog must be similar to a normal person seeing a lion.

You don’t think rationally when faced with such a fear.

Yes, because seeing a lion outside of a zoo or safari park is such a wide and rampant occurrence so of course you're more likely to scream if you see on in someone else's back garden

Let's assume that the risk of reaction from a dog next door is as likely and serious as the NDNs suggest (although I am not convinced it is).

The point about severe allergies is that, at some point, the sufferer will either have to live in the real world and manage the risks, or will have to self-isolate for ever. If it's the former, then the demands of the NDNs are unreasonable, because OP is being required to jump through hoops that the NDNs will not have the benefit of from anyone else. If it's the latter, then the NDNs need to accept that they must move to give their DC the guaranteed dog-free existence that she will require for the rest of her life, rather than trying to impose unreasonable restrictions on OP and her family.

Before anyone attacks me for not understanding the issues, I have a DC who has anaphylactic reactions to certain foods, plus I am a solicitor who advises on these types of risk issues for businesses.

The NDNs have no legal (and in my view, moral) right to try to impose these restrictions and their behaviour in doing so is unlawful harassment.

@claralara42

It’s just very hard when someone is screaming at you that you are killing their child to not feel like a horrible human

It's harder to parent a child who has allergies that could easily kill them.

Maybe we shouldn't be calling the parents so many names? Even if they are wrong, a little understanding would be nice.

These parents have many options that don't require dictating how complete strangers lead their lives. They just don't want to inconvenience themselves when they can inconvenience the OP instead.

And the screaming at OP is the last straw.

@BoxHedge

I think it’s unfair to be mad at the mother for screaming.

For her to see a dog must be similar to a normal person seeing a lion.

You don’t think rationally when faced with such a fear.

Adults in charge of vulnerable children MUST learn to manage their fear. How to you think the child feels when she sees her mother out of control?

Go out with her for a cup of tea specifically to talk about this issue. Kindly but firmly make it clear what you are/are not willing to do.

@stairgates & @stayathomer I am aware of the latex/fog/banana thing & avocado is another one. The issue here is that kiwi enzymes are used here in Aus as an MSG substitute to soften meat in marinades and flavour food. It’s not listed in bold in the ingredients lists nor is it specifically noted as an allergen. I have been lobbying the health department about this. Luckily I am an avid reader of every word and he’s never had it. He’s also old enough and smart enough to do this himself now.

Hi OP, just trying to read up on all your updates yesterday.

Here are my suggestions:

1. Talk to the school (and/or parents) to ask what practical solutions they have in place to mitigate the risk of this girl having an allergic reaction at school. Can you or her family adopt any of these measures?

There will be several people in her class who have a dog - do they sit at one end of the classroom and she at another? How many metres apart is that? Do they have the windows open? etc

1. Is there a company that can assess how risky the dog being in your garden and the girl being in her garden actually is?

I am thinking of all those covid 19 videos we have seen in the last year of someone coughing on a tube carriage and all the c19 particles moving around the carriage - you had to be really quite close to be affected and this was an enclosed space. Being outside, in the fresh air with a 6ft fence and a hedge must give multiple layers of protection for the little girl. There may be someone at the council who can help - my friend had a noise assessment done to see how sound travelled from 1 of her neighbour's gardens to hers - they were a cafe, trying to put tables out the back but weren't allowed in the end due to how the acoustics worked.

Adults in charge of vulnerable children MUST learn to manage their fear. How to you think the child feels when she sees her mother out of control?

Gosh that's a good point. How does the child feel in all of this? She must have an utter phobia of dogs.

@Henryhoover12 Please start a second thread and let us know how you get on. I really feel for you in this as it sounds like you've done everything plus more, and I'm selfishly quite invested in it now

Christ on a bike OP, its your home and garden and you can do whatever you like in it. That child's allergies are not your problem. It sounds like her mother needs some therapy because shes completely lost the plot.

Park on your drive, walk your dog, let your dog play in your garden morning noon and night and ignore them. If they don't like it they can move.