AIBU- Dog vs neighbours allergic child !

[Henryhoover12]

Please can someone tell us if we’re being unreasonable or our neighbours are. We moved to a new house and really got on with our neighbours they are very lovely and we spend lots of time speaking to them. We mentioned that we were purchasing a dog In which they had mortified looks on their faces and explained their DC is extremely allergic to dogs (e.g can’t be in class with anyone who owns a dog etc has been in hospital) we kind of brushed it off and said we can speak about it closer to the time.

After that everytime we bumped into them they kept asking if we “changed our minds” which we found so awkward but in the end we told them not getting a dog wasn’t an option is we have always wanted one but are happy to work things out so it’s safe for their child. They took this badly and didn’t speak to us for a while. Closer to us picking up the dog we went around and asked what they would like us to do to ensure safety for their child.

One of the (long list of) rules was that we didn’t let the dog out while their child was in the garden. This seemed fine at the time until we realised their child is ALWAYS in the garden. And I mean always they have a little treehouse type thing that they play in so come rain and sunshine they are out there. At first we tried to play ball like if our dog wanted to wee we would walk him to the park 10 minutes but now it’s just getting ridiculous so we have started letting him go to wee when it’s raining outside because we really can’t be asked to walk 20 minutes just for that. The last time we did the mum came our and shouted at me saying I’m going to kill her child. AIBU to think that our dog has every much right to use our garden as the child? Our poor dog loves to be outside but is trapped inside because of this and I’m starting to think it’s really unfair

I'm still sitting on the fence regarding to what degree the allergy/severity of the allergy is made up, and therefore the degree of fictitious illness/munchausens by proxy is at play.

The guidelines for observation time prior to discharge following an anaphylaxis is a matter of hours following a uniphasic reaction and 10-24 hours following a biphasic reaction, yet OP is under the impression that the girl was hospitalised for at least 7 days (including Christmas and new year) following her last reaction.

Something just doesn't add up here. Giving the parents the benefit of the doubt maybe the little girl has brittle asthma and if this is the case, in all likelihood the admission at Christmas was multifactorial (with the substitute teachers dog being only partially to blame). But if this the situation then the family have mislead OP, which possibly suggests that they don't fully understand their daughters condition, which means they are probably making up their own rules for OP as they go along with these rules not being remotely evidence based (I find it hard to see this child reacting to the dog in another garden that she had no contact with), but expecting to exert more and more power over OP life.

Also, what happens if a fox comes into the girls back garden overnight, maybe the neighbours need to consider this?!

This is all crazy. OP, just let your dog out. You're spending too much of your time pleasing others and therefore losing the quality of your own life.

I have a severe cat allergy. I didn't know how bad until we switched to hot desking at work and I clearly sat at someone's desk who had cats. Lots of cats. On the drive home I started to feel really unwell. My lips were swelling and i started to vomit everywhere. I couldn't pull over fast enough and ended up badly crashing my car. So technically, crazy cat lady almost killed me. Did I have to go back to work? Yes, with adaptations of a dedicated "lollipop" chair.

This family therefore need to flex. Yes allergies are hard, I totally get that. But they cannot have a knock on effect to put such restrictions on someone's life who is not part of the family (and is therefore not in agreement). Id just tell them you've tried, but compromises need to be reached on both sides.

I’ve just read the whole thread goodbye to the productive morning I had planned

YANBU to use your house as you please at this point. You’ve been bullied into pandering to a whole list of ridiculous demands because you’re scared of the fallout from them and other people on the street, which is understandable but totally unacceptable. FWIW you might as well post the whole list at this point because the thread is hugely identifying anyway, I doubt there’s another household in the UK as batshit as your neighbours!

Their child’s allergy is theirs to manage, they can’t dictate what you do in your own home.

Honestly they sound bonkers - I’d hedge my bets that the mum is controlling and completely over the top anxious and dad has been hen pecked over the years to go along with it.

My dog is out in the garden around four times a day, not just for toilet breaks but because he enjoys running around it. I’d feel incredibly cruel stopping that. And surely as it’s outdoors any risk is low anyway?!

This is totally the families problem I’m afraid. Like someone else said, the wider family should've moved in next door if its such a problem. If they weren’t willing to do that then it speak volumes.

@Justilou1 I'm the same here, my allergies are horses and kiwis, literally a drip of kiwi and my throat starts closing, each time it gets worse, I was told by a nurse that the kiwi allergy is also linked to latex which my sister has so tell your son to be wary of latex aswell ie some plasters.

With a latex allergy you would need to be careful around figs and bananas.

OP, I already posted that YANBU, but having read your updates, these people have been completely out of order. You have the right to park on your own driveway, they can't make you park down the road!

You paid a premium price for a property with a garden and driveway and now cant use them because the neighbour wont let you.

Again, the driveway is their problem not yours, and all you need to do is always take the dog away from their car so it can't brush against it.

If you did move, they could have somebody move in with 3 dogs!.

You need to start living your life as you want to, and if you do give them a heads up, then just say that the rules are too restrictive and that you are allowed to enjoy and use your own property that you have paid for.

A reasonable request from them would be that you keep your dog indoors for an hour a day so she can play in the garden , or something like that, not expect you to arrange every single thing around them.

If the child is homeschooled, then they could go into the garden every time you go out. They need to work around you.

If they're really that concerned, why don't they houseswap with one of their relatives on the cul de sac? I agree, this is not your problem, morally speaking, beyond keeping the dog under control so it doesn't roam around the neighbourhood. Which of course you are doing. No one has the right to ask someone else to live a restricted life just to protect them. As a society we seem to have moved to a place where a tiny minority can dictate how everyone else lives, and it's not healthy.

However, having had to move to escape difficult neighbours myself, I suspect in the end you're going to find that the more palatable option.

Honestly they sound bonkers - I’d hedge my bets that the mum is controlling and completely over the top anxious and dad has been hen pecked over the years to go along with it

Or indeed the other way round!

I thought the myth of Munchausen's by proxy had died with the tragic Sally Clark case (and similar) but we've certainly seen plenty of irrational overanxiousness going on during covid: plenty of people who think you can catch covid from your post or groceries, for example. So the parents are probably in the same category. Anyone who thinks you can have an allergic reaction to a dog going into the neighbouring garden to do its business is not being rational. As a pp said, if the girl's allergy is really that serious, she would be in a bubble and definitely not going to school.

And they should be looking into the immune-therapy a pp mentioned - seem to remember it was being trialled at Southampton university.

I cannot even understand why you are pandering to them. Your house, life, garden, dog. The end.
And neighbours usually are nice whilst getting their own way. That doesn't indicate they are nice people. You only realise if they are when issues arise. These people are used to bully tactics and just want to push you out. Probably why the last people left? Maybe they weren't allowed in their own garden either.
Honestly I'd ignore it. Make sure there's a fence so the child cannot possibly interact with the dog. And clearly keep your dog (and yourselves, if you have touched the dog) away from the child. But beyond that, go on with your lives. They are crazy and that poor child is going to have a crap future.

@HJ91

I am struggling with the fact that you thought your desire to own a dog is in any way comparable to their desire to keep their child alive. Whether or not they’re batshit, they’re clearly scared, and see your decision to get a dog despite knowing their child has recently been hospitalised due to her allergy, as incomprehensible and cruel. They’re going to act as scared people do, as the mother did when you let the dog out without warning. I think the previous poster’s suggestion about a doorbell to ring (and wait for the child to go inside before letting dog out to pee) is a good solution, as well as discussions with your neighbours around just how sensitive this allergy is and how else you can work together to proof the boundary between your gardens. I would also make sure you keep an eye on your neighbours while the dog is outside, as they clearly see it as potentially harming their daughter just by existing.

Poor little girl must be miserable if she barely ever goes anywhere as it is.

have you got a dog? its a batshit solution

I don't believe that someone claiming such a severe allergy that they feel entitled to dictating how their neighbours live their life would send their child to the giant mixing pot that is a school.

^This. Wouldn’t they need to homeschool their child? There are always dogs around on the school run here. And kids in the playground who own dogs.

@paintfairy

I cannot even understand why you are pandering to them. Your house, life, garden, dog. The end. And neighbours usually are nice whilst getting their own way. That doesn't indicate they are nice people. You only realise if they are when issues arise. These people are used to bully tactics and just want to push you out. Probably why the last people left? Maybe they weren't allowed in their own garden either. Honestly I'd ignore it. Make sure there's a fence so the child cannot possibly interact with the dog. And clearly keep your dog (and yourselves, if you have touched the dog) away from the child. But beyond that, go on with your lives. They are crazy and that poor child is going to have a crap future.

"neighbours are nice when they are getting their own way"

oh god this exactly

@RadandMad

If they're really that concerned, why don't they houseswap with one of their relatives on the cul de sac? I agree, this is not your problem, morally speaking, beyond keeping the dog under control so it doesn't roam around the neighbourhood. Which of course you are doing. No one has the right to ask someone else to live a restricted life just to protect them. As a society we seem to have moved to a place where a tiny minority can dictate how everyone else lives, and it's not healthy.

However, having had to move to escape difficult neighbours myself, I suspect in the end you're going to find that the more palatable option.

@RadandMad As a society we seem to have moved to a place where a tiny minority can dictate how everyone else lives, and it's not healthy.

Agree with this.

I think the lockdowns and restrictions have legitimised people like OP ndn(in their heads), making them think it is a reasonable expectation that strangers should make extreme modifications to their lives in order to protect them. This is in effect what lockdown was for all children and most people under 50.

@igelkott2021

Honestly they sound bonkers - I’d hedge my bets that the mum is controlling and completely over the top anxious and dad has been hen pecked over the years to go along with it

Or indeed the other way round!

I thought the myth of Munchausen's by proxy had died with the tragic Sally Clark case (and similar) but we've certainly seen plenty of irrational overanxiousness going on during covid: plenty of people who think you can catch covid from your post or groceries, for example. So the parents are probably in the same category. Anyone who thinks you can have an allergic reaction to a dog going into the neighbouring garden to do its business is not being rational. As a pp said, if the girl's allergy is really that serious, she would be in a bubble and definitely not going to school.

And they should be looking into the immune-therapy a pp mentioned - seem to remember it was being trialled at Southampton university.

Munchausens and Munchausens by proxy are not myths. Both are rare. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factitious_disorder_imposed_on_another

@AudacityBaby

Jesus H Christ on a bicycle.

The amount of people on this thread who’ve decided that having a child means that anybody in the proximity of that child must live their life as if they themselves were its parent - truly, truly bonkers.

I’m not a dog person and I’ve no children so no skin in the game but if my NDN handed me a list of behaviours I now have to comply with as if I’m suddenly a co-parent, I’d tell them where to go.

I’ve every sympathy for allergy sufferers and would of course take reasonable steps to ensure that my actions didn’t cause harm, but no more than that. It is not my responsibility to redesign my life on the basis so as to avoid what a PP described as the teensiest adverse effect on my NDN’s wellbeing.

You cannot realistically make everyone else liable for your child’s life. People should do reasonable things to avoid danger to others but you can’t just dictate that everyone lives in a really precise way and expect them to follow without objection. That’s the case even if the consequences for your child are as severe as this - it simply isn’t a moral obligation for others to sacrifice their free will to accommodate someone else.

I had a neighbour (not next door) who tried this. They did it through complaints to the council and through shouting at me and bullying me. I told the council that their environmental department was being used to harass me (they actually changed their procedures to stop it) and I also went to the police. The batshits are out there. Eventually they fell out with everyone else and moved....sadly that doesn't look like it will happen here.

OP you can't live like this. Your poor dog. If you want, you could ask your NDN if you can have a chat with her dc's consultant/doctor so you understand the danger of having a dog many feet away and behind a fence. I really don't imagine it could affect someone else if they're behind a big fence. You need to able to let him out in the garden and just make sure there's no way he can escape.

@Lockdownbear Seriously you think the local hospital or any consultant (probably a specialist at a children's hospital) is going to discuss a child's medical history with a NDN?

Absolutely not, but Consultants and specialist nurses might be able to discuss the general level of risk posed by a dog being in a neighbouring garden ( with the benefit of high fencing and hedging ) when a child has a severe allergy to dogs, without discussing a childs medical history. This would be helpful to know wouldn't it ?

It's hard enough getting through to a GP these days let alone a specialist nurse. They wouldn't be able to discuss the level of risk anyway as they can't give a definite yes or no.

@aloris

I'm a little confused about all their rules that you have said you follow. Is the child allergic to something other than dogs? If no, then all the rules you follow must somehow be related to preventing the child being exposed to your dog. You describe it as a lot of rules, but it all boils down to one idea which is ensuring the child has no exposure to a dog.

This is your property so you have a right to let your dog out if you like. However, from what you describe, this child is living with an extreme condition that severely limits his/her life. Their child rarely goes out except to a school that is willing to enact the extreme restrictions this child needs to stay alive. The child's family have gone to extreme lengths to create an environment where the child can be kept alive, including buying up as many properties on the cul-de-sac as possible, and only allowing the child to socialize with his/her family who live within the cul-de-sac. You say it is frustrating that the child is in their garden all the time, but from what you describe, that is because the neighbor's garden is apparently the only place this child can go other than his/her house and school. So this must be a very severe and life-threatening allergy.

So essentially this child's family went to extremely burdensome lengths to create a living situation where this medically fragile child can stay alive, and you brought into this environment the one thing that, with a tiny amount of exposure, could kill them.

I see both sides here. It's your property, and you can do as you wish. But you knew in advance that they went to extreme lengths to create an environment to prevent their child being exposed to dogs, you knew that contact with dogs is so dangerous to their child that he/she has been hospitalized after those exposures, you knew this sensitivity is so extreme that the child cannot go anywhere other than her own backyard and her school, and then you bought a dog.

I suppose what seems like the tie-breaker to me, here is, that your dog can safely go for walks elsewhere: to the local park, around other parts of the neighborhood, etc. Whereas this child is only safe in this small space. So to bring your dog to that small space when your dog has the rest of the world to go investigate on walks, and smell things, and meet other dogs, even though it's within your rights, it seems a bit cruel.

But extreme lengths would involve living somewhere there was no chance of having next door neighbours with dogs. OP has been more than considerate - say if she wasn't? What then? Say if she already had a dog when she moved in and decided to let the dog into the garden whenever it wanted? Would their dc now be dead? It's all too ridiculous

This is ridiculous op, they’re bullying you.

If the child can go into an indoor space where traces of dogs are likely to be (school, other kids) then your dog can go in the garden. If she were that allergic they would be hone schooling or having a private teacher come in.

I get your stress with moving, but Lord the whole set up sounds bonkers with the whole family in the cul de sac.

I really feel for you, and you are d nbu x

If this allergy is so bad then maybe the parents need to put a dome cover over the entire garden to stop any airborne particles from entering. Or they need to consider a house swap with other family members living on the cul de sac.

The onus is on the parents to sort this problem, it's not on the neighbours.

And no it's not unreasonable at all for anyone to buy a dog

I agreed to reasonable requests, however the list just got longer and longer to the point it’s unbearable.

I wonder if they've done this to put you off keeping the dog - make it as arduous as possible - or if it's a case of more you do more people demand.

I'd make sure the fence was really secure - maybe the real issue is fear the dog could get into their garden - and maybe try some tall planting -to help make a screen - out of sight out of mind a bit.

What about a fine spray/mist of water along the top of the wall to stop the dog fluff passing your boundary? They do it in very hot countries to cool the air outside posh hotels. If the neighbours did that then you could all use your gardens.

OP you might have never seen someone with severe allergies fighting for their life - on oxygen , all colour draining, unconscious, not knowing whether they will survive the next 5 minutes , hour or day. It is one of the scariest things to witness with someone who you love and that stays with you. I assume your neighbour‘s child has such a severe allergy where this has happened and their parents are doing their utmost to protect their child from this happening again. Their lives are not easy.
For those who can breathe easily it is as if the tube to the lungs contract and you are struggling to breathe. Imagine having a straw to breathe through your mouth - how long can you do this without being fatigued and you know that you can take the straw out any time. If you have asthma it is a bit like that in an attack and you have so little to breathe through and you can’t change that - it is frightening and often fatal.
I also assume it is something like a breathing allergy - asthma kills many people in this country and because many more have mild or moderate asthma, people equate asthma as being something that is easy to manage - but there are many cases where life style is compromised. It sounds like your neighbour's life is compromised in so many ways and the one place that is a safe place for her to go ie the garden is now also Unsafe.
It is a very difficult life when you are constantly on a look out for triggers that may cause an extreme reaction - a trigger that is airborne and cannot be seen but is there. I haven’t read all the posts but you mentioned about having to park the car a bit further from your house - is that really so bad? It is a few extra steps that may protect the child from a potential fatal health scare.
When I go out and I come in contact with dogs , I strip as soon as I get home, everything goes straight into the washing machine and I have a long shower to get rid of any Allergens that I might have picked up. It is not an easy life but I have to do this to protect someone else at home.
I assume as you knew about the severity of this allergy that you bought a hypoallergenic dog - that may mitigate but not exclude the danger.
Imagine what it is like for the parents who see this danger everywhere, it is not an easy life.
I love dogs, I grew up with them and would love to have one, however I realise I shall never be able to own one again.
Any way practicalities - you say you have a fence and bushes either side to give this a buffer zone, which may sound reasonable to you however Allergens have a way of spreading - I know someone who will start sneezing if a cat walks through the other end of the garden or if a cat has sat on the garden furniture some time ago. The Allergens stay and cause havoc to cause allergic reaction.
Practicalities and apologies if this has been mentioned before , I haven’t read all the 900+ posts .
Can you talk to your neighbour and an allergy nurse together and come up with solutions. The idea that the one safe space is compromised is not fair for her, the idea that your dog cannot go out into the garden is not fair for it. However remember that the Allergens stay after your dog has gone inside. So maybe you can have a zone away from the neighbours garden for it to use so the distance is greater.
Maybe you can have it on a long lead with it being attached to a long rope down the garden away from the neighbours property so it can run up and down, or the end of the long lead is held by a stake in the ground. This will Control the distance it is from the boundary and not difficult to do.
Maybe you can have a bell and ring this to signal that you are letting the dog out in 5 minutes to give the child 5 minutes warning to come in.
I feel for you as you must love your dog very much, but I feel for your neighbour too who cannot change the severity of the allergies of their child. It is not an easy way of life and if they seem paranoid at times it is understandable to people who have witnessed a life threatening attack.
As to what they do at school, we can speculate all we like but if school has put something into place such as the child sitting away from other children etc it may well be quite an isolating life there too.
I don’t think it is about the legalities here - yes we are allowed to keep dogs legally - but what is morally right. Imagine your life already being compromised to this extent where your child is living such an isolating and perhaps lonely life. They can’t do things that many will take for granted. It is not a life that you wish for her or her parents and they won’t have made this up.
It must be very hard for them to see you got a dog even after they have explained to your that this would be one of their greatest fears.
Apologies if I am rambling but it is something that affects my life so much and I come across people who don’t understand amd this post has upset me so i may not be coherent.
I wish you all the best and that you can come up with a solution.

Or the little girl could play in one of her relatives gardens sometimes?