Wheelchair woes and baby buggies

[MobilityCat]

As a wheelchair user I have had problems with buggy owners refusing to fold buggy and hold the baby. I've been left sitting in the rain because the person won't fold the buggy because "my babies asleep".
I 've seen buggies loaded with groceries and person holding the baby asleep in their arm. Occasionally someone will debus with the buggy to make the space available but it's rare. I know people are normally good and decent so what changes them on the bus?

I wouldn’t mind getting off the bus for a wheelchair user, but depending on how far into the journey I am or how far I have left to go I would probably expect at least a portion of my fare back. Buses where I live are expensive, why should I pay the best part of a fiver to get into town only to be booted off after a few stops and have to pay again when the next one comes?

If you know you're going to be using public transport, you make sure you have a buggy you can fold, or use a sling, and that you never have more shopping than you can carry (most people without a car do an online food shop nowadays anyway, so it's not like you're trying to carry a week's worth of groceries!). I don't get why people on this thread are making the folding of a buggy and carrying 2 bags of shopping into such a drama 🤷‍♀️

It's not helped by a lot of spaces. I've been to a few shopping centres where the lifts have those signs about considering who needs priority, and they only have a buggy sign on the sign - I always think WTF when I see those, and sadly seen those with wheelchairs and walking sticks struggling to be allowed on there too.

Agreed - my personal pet hate is when the baby change is in the accessible toilet, especially in new buildings - there's just no justification for making the toilet that's most likely to be needed urgently to also be the one most likely to be occupied by for quite long periods in that way. There's no need for the design to place parents and disabled people in competition for resources in that way.

Easy to lift! Not life

@MobilityCat

There are rules for the size mobility scooters must comply with, so perhaps there should be rules for buggies (size, folding etc)

Firstly let me clarify that I move or offer to get off. But what you're suggesting would mean I could never get on the bus with my twins. Drivers need to have more powers to enforce your right to your space, but why is excluding a certain category of customers ie. double buggies always people's preference. I've also seen those spaces blocked by elderly people with trolleys but it's never acceptable to say old people shouldn't be allowed on buses, just parents

Me me me me me me me
(Just summing up this thread save anyone the bother reading 8 pages)

I've got off of a lot of buses to allow a wheelchair user to get on. It's just what you do. No one - but no one wants to wake up a tiny baby in a pushchair, and yes, some don't fold down. The PP who made the point about not having 4 arms is absolutely right. We should have space for both, we don't, so wheelchair users come first, quite rightly.

@Grenlei

If you know you're going to be using public transport, you make sure you have a buggy you can fold, or use a sling, and that you never have more shopping than you can carry (most people without a car do an online food shop nowadays anyway, so it's not like you're trying to carry a week's worth of groceries!). I don't get why people on this thread are making the folding of a buggy and carrying 2 bags of shopping into such a drama 🤷‍♀️

Because despite how our fore-mothers carried quads and 4 bags of shopping onto the bus every day, I can't hold twins in my arms (in a pandemic) and fold the double buggy up even without more than a nappy bag.

I found people always happy to help, either with holding baby or carrying the buggy on/off. Have you had a baby or toddler over the last 18 months?

As for the lady who said carry them in a sling, it’s clear she has no idea or had no children because slings stents for everybody, they’re only for the first few months erm you can buy slings that go all the way up to toddlers, you just use a different wrap
Plus what are they supposed to do after they’ve reached their destination? Have their sling on the front and their nappy bag with all the babies items like nappies and wipes on their back? Put baby in buggy, and put the sling back in the bag?

Too many selfish people these days which is why I basically went nowhere when I was on maternity leave as I couldn't cope with the hassle. Nobody will move out of the way or lend a hand, they all just look awkwardly away and pretend you're not there.

(I did have a sling but DS was a large baby and by the time he was five months it was too painful to carry him in it - I have a problem with my knees, and after one short trip out for a walk where I honestly thought I wasn't going to make it home I had to give up using it.)

@movingadviceneeded

I've got off of a lot of buses to allow a wheelchair user to get on. It's just what you do. No one - but no one wants to wake up a tiny baby in a pushchair, and yes, some don't fold down. The PP who made the point about not having 4 arms is absolutely right. We should have space for both, we don't, so wheelchair users come first, quite rightly.

Thank you for this. I completely understand it is difficult for parents to manage buggies and I do sympathise, although it is only for a few short years.

And yes there should be space so if parents feel strongly there should be one they should campaign for it. But that is a separate issue from the need of disabled people for, and entitlement to, the wheelchair spaces.

I find it difficult and inconvenient too, pushing my adult DS around in his wheelchair (he has severe learning difficulties so has to have a manual wheelchair and be accompanied). As he gets older and heavier the difficulties grow more inconvenient not less for us.

@SleepingStandingUp if they're too small to be taken out and popped onto a seat on the bus while you're folding the buggy, then you'd do one baby in a sling, hold the other while you fold buggy one handed? Use a rucksack on your back as nappy bag, plenty of us never had a specific changing bag, they weren't a thing when my DC were small.

Or just walk to wherever you're going and don't use the bus?

[quote Grenlei]@SleepingStandingUp if they're too small to be taken out and popped onto a seat on the bus while you're folding the buggy, then you'd do one baby in a sling, hold the other while you fold buggy one handed? Use a rucksack on your back as nappy bag, plenty of us never had a specific changing bag, they weren't a thing when my DC were small.

Or just walk to wherever you're going and don't use the bus?[/quote]
Yeah, I'll totally walk 4 hours each way to my son's hospital because as a mother of multiples I shouldn't be on a bus. They're not too small to put on a seat, they're too old. I couldn't carry on 13kg toddler on my back, hold one safely on a seat and fold their buggy and that's all without consideration to my older child's oxygen cylinder. But I'm just a mom so I can't possibly have anywhere important to go to. As it is I pull eldest out of school early to accomodate us not being able to get on buses but no. Far better to just try and exclude parents with pushchairs on buses because it's easier for people who aren't them.

Some horribly entitled parents on here.
Wheelchair users have priority and rightly so.
How it works in London should be the norm.

I am happy to help anyone with holding shopping or folding buggies etc. to hopefully accommodate both but the person who is in a wheelchair is the designated user of the space.

I do take @AngeloMysterioso 's point about the cost and think when someone gets off the bus to make way for a wheelchair user there should be some way for them to get on the next bus free of charge. Maybe a ticket or token to hand to the next bus driver.

my personal pet hate is when the baby change is in the accessible toilet, especially in new buildings

There absolutely needs to be baby change facilities in the accessible toilet. There just need to be ones in the other toilets as well.

I folded my pushchair before the bus got to the stop, not on the bus. I can't exactly remember how I negotiated all the difficulties, but I did it hundreds of times.

@EmergencyHydrangea

my personal pet hate is when the baby change is in the accessible toilet, especially in new buildings

There absolutely needs to be baby change facilities in the accessible toilet. There just need to be ones in the other toilets as well.

Sorry, yes, I meant the sole baby change.

Agreed - my personal pet hate is when the baby change is in the accessible toilet, especially in new buildings - there's just no justification for making the toilet that's most likely to be needed urgently to also be the one most likely to be occupied by for quite long periods in that way. There's no need for the design to place parents and disabled people in competition for resources in that way.

People with disabilities can also be parents.

Parents of multiples are likely to need an accessible toilet if out by themselves.

But yes baby change should be available in a range of locations.

There are ways to get round many of these problems but they're not always palatable. The one time I absolutely could not get off the bus (we were on our way to a hospital appointment and had already spent half an hour in traffic so no time to wait until the next bus), it was absolutely jam-packed and standing room only. I ended up making my 18 month old sit on the floor and tied his reins tightly to one of the bus poles while I folded the buggy. That kept him in one place and stopped him falling over when the bus driver sped off while I was sorting everything out. Did get some funny looks though. Would definitely recommend having a spare pair of reins to anyone who takes the bus frequently with more than one child... so useful to secure children to things . Also great for airport security... just attach them to your belt.

I would never hesitate to fold up a pushchair to make way for a wheelchair user. I always made sure if I got on the bus, I had an easy to collapse pushchair.

I have only ever seen 1 occasion where it was a little awkward.

Pushchair user, said she had arthritis and was not comfortable holding the baby on a moving bus, people did offer to hold the baby for her but can't blame her for politely refusing.

The driver advised the parent they needed to get off and wait for the next bus, she was absolutely devastated, crying that she had to get to her elder child's school to pick them up and if she waited for the next bus she would be late.

Both ladies were really nice and sympathetic to each other with the lady in the wheelchair saying she didn't mind waiting for the next bus but if she hadn't, I would have really felt for the bus driver being put in that predicament.

People with disabilities can also be parents.

This. Obviously.

Also, I’m not disabled but I couldn’t carry my baby in a sling. So all the ‘Just use as long until they are are 3...’ 😒
The labour & epidural left me with chronic back pain and I remember using the pushchair to lean on whilst walking! I was like an old woman!

The thing is, people have stuff going on & people have a whole mix of reasons why they do what they do. It’s not black and white.

I’m a wheelchair user and have never taken the bus yet. I’m a bit scared to tbh. I wouldn’t like to force someone else off the bus because of my disability. I’d feel a bit shit and embarrassed. Buses should have space for buggies and wheelchairs. Simple as that.

@lakesummer

Agreed - my personal pet hate is when the baby change is in the accessible toilet, especially in new buildings - there's just no justification for making the toilet that's most likely to be needed urgently to also be the one most likely to be occupied by for quite long periods in that way. There's no need for the design to place parents and disabled people in competition for resources in that way.

People with disabilities can also be parents.

Parents of multiples are likely to need an accessible toilet if out by themselves.

But yes baby change should be available in a range of locations.

I agree and have already apologised for not being clearer that I meant that the only baby change facilities shouldn't be in the accessible toilet, not that they shouldn't be in there for disabled parents to use. I don't think parents of multiple children should be using the accessible toilet just because it's easier any more than any other able-bodied person should be using the accessible toilet because it's more convenient or they like having the extra space, though.

I have always moved out the way for a wheelchair but I've been able to move directly opposite and have room for both. My problem is bus drivers! They don't give you long enough, there have been loads of times where I haven't even had long enough to park my buggy and put the brake on before they are driving off and if you have bags it's a nightmare. I haven't had to fold up yet but I imagine it being very stressful when most bus drivers won't wait for you to sit down :(