Wheelchair woes and baby buggies

[MobilityCat]

As a wheelchair user I have had problems with buggy owners refusing to fold buggy and hold the baby. I've been left sitting in the rain because the person won't fold the buggy because "my babies asleep".
I 've seen buggies loaded with groceries and person holding the baby asleep in their arm. Occasionally someone will debus with the buggy to make the space available but it's rare. I know people are normally good and decent so what changes them on the bus?

@JesusSufferingFuck22. I'm really sorry you feel that way . Like most people, I've never minded getting off the bus for anyone in a wheelchair and nine times out of ten it's no problem for me to walk or wait for the next one (and the 10th time it might just take me a little time to figure out the best way to fold my buggy). It's heartbreaking that you feel you should have to limit yourself like this. Honestly, normal decent people won't mind.

The buses in my nearest city (not in UK) have three wheelchair/pushchair spaces (and some - the long single-decker type - have more). It's pretty rare for them all to be occupied. They also come often enough that it's generally not the end of the world if they are and someone has to wait.

It shouldn't be acceptable, as a PP said, to put parents and wheelchair users in competition for resources.

@SloopyDoodle. I agree. The main problem is bus drivers who don't want to wait but drive off and put the parent and child at risk. It's going to take a parent a couple of minutes to get all their stuff out and fold the buggy all the while holding onto the child/children. So people just need to be patient.

So when are the parents going to start their campaign to get dedicates buggy spaces on all buses then? Or are they just going to keep on using the spaces allocated for wheelchair users and complaining about how unfair it is?

I'm not quite sure why they should need to campaign. Public transport providers - which are presumably subsidised by public money - know there is this need. They should be meeting it.

When I was growing up the buses had steps to get on with a bar down the middle. The space to get on/off wasn't wide enough for buggies to get on with out being folded so people would fold them before the bus got to the stop.

Obviously that set up of steps meant wheelchairs couldn't get on either, buses have rightly changed so that wheelchairs can get on but it has meant that people with buggies have taken advantage and stopped folding their buggies.

The wheelchair user should always take precedence over a buggy.

We did have buggy spaces when mine were little. You folded the buggy at the bus stop and got on with your stuff.

Someone in a wheelchair trumps ANYONE else. No matter their circumstances.

It's unfortunate that in such cases the driver hasn't intervened and asked those with a buggy to fold it or get off the bus and wait for the next one.

@SlothinSpirit
I live in on a semi rural route so the option of making someone get off and wait 30 minutes for the next bus doesn’t sit well with me. Also the whole getting on and off the bus and clipping myself in just seems a bit scary. Fortunately for just now I have my mobility scooter for local trips and my DH drives me if I need to go further.

@Wheelz46

I would never hesitate to fold up a pushchair to make way for a wheelchair user. I always made sure if I got on the bus, I had an easy to collapse pushchair.

I have only ever seen 1 occasion where it was a little awkward.

Pushchair user, said she had arthritis and was not comfortable holding the baby on a moving bus, people did offer to hold the baby for her but can't blame her for politely refusing.

The driver advised the parent they needed to get off and wait for the next bus, she was absolutely devastated, crying that she had to get to her elder child's school to pick them up and if she waited for the next bus she would be late.

Both ladies were really nice and sympathetic to each other with the lady in the wheelchair saying she didn't mind waiting for the next bus but if she hadn't, I would have really felt for the bus driver being put in that predicament.

I will always give way to someone offering a a reason for declining, as I said to another post, his disabled child would get preference. Give and take is part of our lives so why should this be different? It's people who are able to stand or walk and just refuse to make adjustments for others that make things awkward and embarrassing for others.

100% agree with you OP (am fellow wheelchair user).

Completely agree any able bodied person should absolutely give up the wheelchair seating if they are their with a pushchair and you have every reason to be angry at those who try to refuse.

I didn't mean for the post to sound like the lady with the pushchair was in the right, I just thought it was a tough dilemma for the bus driver especially if the lady in the wheelchair had needed to get to the same school to pick up a child, especially if the next bus made either late.

We cross posted hardbackwriter I agree with you that baby change should be in standard male and female toilets.

On the multiple issue, I needed to use an accessible baby change because I couldn't physically access most female toilets with the dc.

I carefully chose a pushchair the same width as a wheelchair so I could get most places. It meant I could change my babies while out and about.

It isn't acceptable to leave babies in pushchairs by themselves in public places. So you need a space that they can stay with you.
It wasn't about being easier it was about being possible.

I do think that working on making more spaces accessible both to wheelchair users and pushchair users would be a good way forward.
Rather than pit two more vulnerable groups against each other leaving everyone else untroubled

Poor mum left stood in the cold/rain with babies/kids in tow and bags of shopping vs single adult in mobility chair or scooter waiting for next bus

Totally ableist post. Despicable.

I’m tempted to report it, but perhaps it’s better to let people see how you think @NVision

That “single adult “ in a wheelchair may very well develop a life threatening condition such as pneumonia from being left in the cold or the rain because of ableist views such as this.

The stupid covid rules of one pushchair or one wheelchair doesn't help. So people can sit in every row of the bus but a person in a wheelchair on one side and a baby on a buggy on the other side are somehow causing a covid risk. I offered to move the other day and was told they couldn't let a person on in a wheelchair whilst a pushchair was on. Utterly ridiculous. There's two spots. Then the next driver will permit it.

@ShortBacknSides

Poor mum left stood in the cold/rain with babies/kids in tow and bags of shopping vs single adult in mobility chair or scooter waiting for next bus

Totally ableist post. Despicable.

I’m tempted to report it, but perhaps it’s better to let people see how you think @NVision

That “single adult “ in a wheelchair may very well develop a life threatening condition such as pneumonia from being left in the cold or the rain because of ableist views such as this.

@ShortBacknSides Reporting would be a bit extreme. I offered @NVision sympathy because I've also sat in the wind and rain because the bus was inaccessible. As several folk have pointed out we shouldn't pitted against each other, we're all in this together and a bit of give and take is all that's needed.

Buses should be more adaptable and offer more space to accommodate both buggies and wheelchair. Buggies have paid to receive a service, some of the parents may be disabled and not manage folding etc...I can see why they would not want to fold down but overall I think the bus companies/ regulators are at fault for not ensuring that there is adequate space for both or a refund for those who get chucked off with a buggy. Writing as someone disabled with disabled children who would not be able to decant them from a buggy.. or stand at a bus stop without considerable pain or falling over and being unable to walk. (but used our limited budget for a car for this reason.) (In my case it would be three disabled people versus one disabled person as both my children are disabled as well but undiagnosed at that point)

It is really shit that wheelchair users and parents can't guarantee getting on a bus / staying on a bus.

Buggies have paid to receive a service
How have they paid? I never paid for any of mine until they were 5yo and definitely out of a buggy.

Some disabled people travel free so think that’s dig for we have more rights to the space. If you can’t wheelchair yourself up a massive hill then your own bad luck sort thing

I'm really sorry OP. Some parents are massive ducks and should realise that the wheelchair spaces were campaigned for and buggies have backpacked on the great work by those campaigners.
There are grey areas like disabled children in buggies but the space is for wheelchairs and buggy users should campaign for a possible buggy area on top of the wheelchair area - especially in areas where the buses aren't frequent.

I've used buggies on buses back in the day where only unfolded buggies were allowed and when buggies were allowed in the wheelchair space if they were free. Of course it's much easier wheeling the buggy on but it shouldn't be at the cost of wheelchair users.

@ShortBacknSides

Poor mum left stood in the cold/rain with babies/kids in tow and bags of shopping vs single adult in mobility chair or scooter waiting for next bus

Totally ableist post. Despicable.

I’m tempted to report it, but perhaps it’s better to let people see how you think @NVision

That “single adult “ in a wheelchair may very well develop a life threatening condition such as pneumonia from being left in the cold or the rain because of ableist views such as this.

My post was cut short, I added to it immediately after. Just stating what can often be the perception to people on the bus or drivers.

@NVision

Poor mum left stood in the cold/rain with babies/kids in tow and bags of shopping vs single adult in mobility chair or scooter waiting for next bus

It will be the matter for me, HTH

If someone's baby is asleep, can't you get the next bus? Just a kind thing to do, especially when the baby is small and the mother is probably shattered.

@NeedingAGoodNap

Not all buggys actually fold down, so it’s possible they can’t. I also wouldn’t feel comfortable trying to hold a wiggling baby on a bus as some of the drivers around here think they are formula one drivers

As a regular bus user with multiple children because I don't drive. I have always had a decent big pram for off roading etc because I walk A LOT but this is not practical for the bus because it doesn't fold compact nor is it an easy fold. So instead of being an entitled bugger I also had a cheap buggy that folds easily one handed and small for bus use as well as a sling so I can pop baby from pram into sling and then have 2 hands free to carry the folded pram on board the bus or put it into the storage area. If you use buses this is what you do, you use equipment practical for it.

There were many debates on this subject, and i remember the latest ruling (at least in our area) was first come first served.