Wheelchair woes and baby buggies

[MobilityCat]

As a wheelchair user I have had problems with buggy owners refusing to fold buggy and hold the baby. I've been left sitting in the rain because the person won't fold the buggy because "my babies asleep".
I 've seen buggies loaded with groceries and person holding the baby asleep in their arm. Occasionally someone will debus with the buggy to make the space available but it's rare. I know people are normally good and decent so what changes them on the bus?

Yes, here too, the newer buses have both. Buggies can use an empty wheelchair space. Not vice versa though because the buggy space isn't equipped for wheelchairs (back support, side arm thing).

That is the very subject of the thread - buggies in the wheelchair space, failing to move to allow a wheelchair user onto the bus.

The very idea that the problem is those pushy wheelchair users, trying to take over the designated (but not legally protected) buggy spaces, just struck me as too absurd and so tone deaf.

@Boomclaps

I’m disabled. Regularly use crutches/frame. My buggy is often used in lieu of my mobility aid, because it does stabilise me when walking. I know this is a fairly unusual position to be in, but worth thinking about.

You are fortunate in that you can, so perhaps a foldable rollator would not intrude into the "Wheelchair Space". I know that some wheelchair users are ambulatory and use other aids but the space is designated for wheelchairs. A rollator has handbrake and seat for when you tire and most importantly it can be folded. Can your buggy, because that's the problem we have.

It’s wheelchair space you give way. No ifs no butts. Only exception be when another sort of wheelchair is using the space so a disabled child who can’t come out of buggy or the buggy is their special needs chair.

Or else any of the reasons below that have Been cited as BUTS like it’s up for debate. Odds are at any one time the parent could claim one of the reasons below. There will also be pretty good reason why parent can’t get off bus that doesn’t mean they are not legal required to do so.

But Its not safe get my baby out some drivers are formula one

But Not all buggies fold down

But I don’t think it’s always clear cut

But I dont have four arms I can’t fold it down

But It’s a double buggy

But I have twins

But I have disability I can’t bend lift

But can’t hold child and put pram down

But I’m in two minds

But it’s raining and cold

But I can’t manage sling and back pack

But I have chronic back pain

But I’m Late for hopsital appointments

But I’ve paid for service

But The bus are only every 2h

But Covid can’t ask anyone to help

But I thought was policy not the law

But I use pram as mobility aid

I love all the people advocating handing over your baby to randomers on the bus like we've not been on a pandemic for 16 months
Oh come on, don't get on the bus then if you're not prepared to compromise for a wheelchair user - presumably your baby is already in a mask to protect it from these 'randomers' on the bus.

@Akire

It’s wheelchair space you give way. No ifs no butts. Only exception be when another sort of wheelchair is using the space so a disabled child who can’t come out of buggy or the buggy is their special needs chair.

Or else any of the reasons below that have Been cited as BUTS like it’s up for debate. Odds are at any one time the parent could claim one of the reasons below. There will also be pretty good reason why parent can’t get off bus that doesn’t mean they are not legal required to do so.

But Its not safe get my baby out some drivers are formula one

But Not all buggies fold down

But I don’t think it’s always clear cut

But I dont have four arms I can’t fold it down

But It’s a double buggy

But I have twins

But I have disability I can’t bend lift

But can’t hold child and put pram down

But I’m in two minds

But it’s raining and cold

But I can’t manage sling and back pack

But I have chronic back pain

But I’m Late for hopsital appointments

But I’ve paid for service

But The bus are only every 2h

But Covid can’t ask anyone to help

But I thought was policy not the law

But I use pram as mobility aid

Thank you, that sums this up perfectly. No buts!

Thanks @Akire for your post. It is just exhausting to have to point out again and again that this is just not up for debate the way some posters clearly think it is: wheelchairs have priority for the space and other users have to give way.

I get that it is inconvenient and difficult to travel on a bus with small children in buggies; but you need to take it up with the bus companies not try to get round it by laying claim to disabled people's dedicated space.

You can campaign for better transport provision for parents like disabled people did. Most of you won't though, because in a few years when your DC are bigger this will no longer be an issue for you. Whereas a wheelchair is very often for life.

It’s easy - if you are buying a buggy and know that you will be using the bus, buy one which folds down easily. Dress appropriately - you and your buggy/baby/toddler may have to get off the bus if a wheelchair user needs the space and you may have to wait for the next bus/walk home/wait for a taxi.

Yes I couldnt agree more OP. It has already been said bit I am firmly in the I chose to have a child, no one chooses a wheelchair camp. Of course people should get off to make way. But sadly a lot of people become parents and become so bloody entitled and think the world revolves around them.

To be fair to lots of the people on this thread, I don’t recall seeing many saying they would refuse to give the space to someone in a wheelchair. Has anyone actually said that on here?

There’s been a lot of chat of why it’s practically difficult to fold a buggy, and how bus companies don’t make it easy for parents (removing luggage racks for example). But where has anyone said I can’t fold my buggy therefore I don’t give up the space? Most, like me, have said I just get off the bus if I need to. I don’t see how this is saying use of the space is up for debate.

As for those giving parents grief for not wanting to hand their baby to a stranger on the bus, are you for real? Again, I won’t hand my baby to a stranger. I will get off the bus if needed.

@NakedAttraction

To be fair to lots of the people on this thread, I don’t recall seeing many saying they would refuse to give the space to someone in a wheelchair. Has anyone actually said that on here?

There’s been a lot of chat of why it’s practically difficult to fold a buggy, and how bus companies don’t make it easy for parents (removing luggage racks for example). But where has anyone said I can’t fold my buggy therefore I don’t give up the space? Most, like me, have said I just get off the bus if I need to. I don’t see how this is saying use of the space is up for debate.

As for those giving parents grief for not wanting to hand their baby to a stranger on the bus, are you for real? Again, I won’t hand my baby to a stranger. I will get off the bus if needed.

Exactly and yet people will still come along and say well ban all buggies from all buses and then it'll be fine.

I'll happily hand my baby to a stranger of my choosing and always offer to hold a baby but the idea that I should just dump two 18 months on a seat whilst the driver pulls away or have it to the local alcoholic who smells of pee is ridiculous.

It's much simpler than that.

If the space is needed you move out of the way.

They haven’t said “I’m not getting off” but they have all said good reasons why they might argue their “side”. Sorry my baby’s sleeping sorry this doesn’t fold down. Sorry we all late. Then it’s disabled person who everyone is looking at and holding up the bus feels they are being the nuisance and “not kind”.

Trust me I’ve been there it’s not fun. I don’t want throw parents off the bus but it’s almost every bus it’s a sad faced parent looking at you. Or asking when I’m getting off or
If I can get off earlier so they can get on. Or about how long they have been waiting.

Even if the parent does get off the bus after being asked there are ways of doing it. Taking forever , giving you eyes, stopping around making you feel even worse. If it’s not affected you not understand the stress. I never use buses anymore.

And let’s not forget the posters here may not be saying they aren’t getting off but way too many people don’t or make a massive fuss about having to move.

I doubt there are many wheelchair users who need to use public transport who haven’t experienced issues with accessing the space

The ideal solution of course is that wheelchair user and buggy user can both take the bus.

With a bit of patience from everyone and forward planning from parents, there is no reason why this can't happen. There aren't many buggies that don't fold and these shouldn't be on public transport.

Parents should travel with slings or reins/harnesses which they can use to secure their mobile babies or toddlers while they fold down their buggy. Also, put a large shopping bag under the buggy with everything in it rather than having lots of loose items to sort out. Bus drivers should accept that they're going to have to wait 5 minutes for a mum to sort everything out and not just drive off with small children falling off seats. And other passengers will have to be patient. I can understand a parent not wanting to wake a sleeping baby, but unfortunately there are many situations when you have to do this.

I think that's where the defensive posts come from @SlothinSpirit. Because it's a shame I can't get on the bus but it isn't my fault I can't get on the bus. I can fold my double single handed but not with two 13kg toddlers strapped to me. Reins are fine and will stop them getting away but not lying on the dirty floor and locking your shoes. The double that I can collapse doesn't have a large basket. The one that does takes me much longer to collapse and takes up a ton of space. I'd love not to have a ton of stuff to cart but kids.... I would never have put my premature baby in anything that was collapsible with one hand in the early months because I wanted him protected

So we leave extra early for hospital appts, we put our hand up and smile politely when the driver says no, we move out of the way.

Sneery "well it serves you right for not driving before you got pregnant / buying one buggy that you can afford and meets all your needs due to limited space and cash / have minor physical issues that make juggling everything complicated etc.

We don't need rules on what type of pushchair is allowed we just need the current rules enforcing

@SleepingStandingUp. Yes, I can see that that would be tricky and there may be no option but to get off in your situation. Perhaps with help from other passengers and the driver...but people don't tend to offer so you can't expect it these days. We're lucky that the buses around here have handles above the seats so I can immobilise my toddler by tying them to the seat with their reins. If I'm folding down, I need to do this because the drivers won't wait for you and don't care if a child goes flying and hits their head.

Can’t believe this discussion is still happening, my dd who is almost 25, and a wheelchair user wrote on one of these threads when she was 14 to explain the difficulties and people are studio excusing their bad behaviours.
( and no Reddit lot I didn’t s sock puppet or write for her).

I refuse to move into the space in my wheelchair until the mum has sorted her children and stuff out and are settled in their seat. The driver can’t move until I’m in place. I’ve even been known to hold babies and toddlers and have toddlers and little kids sit on my footplate between my feet.

I'll fully admit that I never considered how easy my pushchair was to fold down on a bus. My main concern was would it fit in the car.
I ended up doing 50/50 travel by bus and I learned the hard way that I had made a stupid, stupid choice!
Lived in a flat too so didn't have a lot of space to store more than one type of pushchair. I spent so much time having to debus for the same lady who was in a wheelchair and lived on my bus route. While it was obviously frustrating for me, that doesn't mean that I would ever dream of not 'letting' her on the bus or refusing to move.

My main piece of advice to my friends when they get pregnant is buy a chair that you can fold down easily with one hand

Bus drivers should accept that they're going to have to wait 5 minutes for a mum to sort everything out and not just drive off with small children falling off seats. And other passengers will have to be patient

LOLz at the idea of making a bus in London wait for 5 minutes

@NeedingAGoodNap

Not all buggys actually fold down, so it’s possible they can’t. I also wouldn’t feel comfortable trying to hold a wiggling baby on a bus as some of the drivers around here think they are formula one drivers

Wow. Yes, holding a baby must be much harder than wanting the basic normal day to day activity of taking a bus.

If you have a standard none disability buggy you are an absolute arse if you don't collapse said buggy for a wheelchair. You should banned from the bus if you refusw. I say this as a former buggy pusher.

I used to have a double buggy. I couldn't hold two children and fold the pushchair. Then again I think I only used it on the bus twice and there were no wheelchair users on the bus or waiting.
Ultimately though they are for wheelchair users and people with pushchairs should give the space up. Another reason why it would be good to have conducters back on buses as they could tell parents to fold the buggy. Drivers are reluctant to do this as there is no back up support for them.

@NakedAttraction

Bus drivers should accept that they're going to have to wait 5 minutes for a mum to sort everything out and not just drive off with small children falling off seats. And other passengers will have to be patient

LOLz at the idea of making a bus in London wait for 5 minutes

Tbf it isn't even 5 minutes that's needed. I've had drivers pull off quickly when a clearly elderly infirm man had barely collected his ticket.

@Rosebel

I used to have a double buggy. I couldn't hold two children and fold the pushchair. Then again I think I only used it on the bus twice and there were no wheelchair users on the bus or waiting. Ultimately though they are for wheelchair users and people with pushchairs should give the space up. Another reason why it would be good to have conducters back on buses as they could tell parents to fold the buggy. Drivers are reluctant to do this as there is no back up support for them.

In which case you would need to leave the bus.

@ElGuardiandenoche

I refuse to move into the space in my wheelchair until the mum has sorted her children and stuff out and are settled in their seat. The driver can’t move until I’m in place. I’ve even been known to hold babies and toddlers and have toddlers and little kids sit on my footplate between my feet.

Waiting for mum to get sorted is good. I have had drivers move off while I'm still navigating into the space, probably boy racers as mentioned.