Wheelchair woes and baby buggies

[MobilityCat]

As a wheelchair user I have had problems with buggy owners refusing to fold buggy and hold the baby. I've been left sitting in the rain because the person won't fold the buggy because "my babies asleep".
I 've seen buggies loaded with groceries and person holding the baby asleep in their arm. Occasionally someone will debus with the buggy to make the space available but it's rare. I know people are normally good and decent so what changes them on the bus?

@SlothinSpirit

It sounds like there needs to be a nationwide policy that wheelchair users take priority. This is already the case in London and I'm surprised it's not the case elsewhere.

Alongside this, more help should be given to mums to fold down their buggies. It would be a start if bus drivers were told in no uncertain terms that they should not drive off at speed when there are unrestrained toddlers and babies rolling about in the aisles or on the seats. Instead, they need to wait for the mother to find a seat for the children, fold down the buggy (which may take longer if done one-handed holding a baby) and gather up any shopping or bags. It is not the work of a few seconds.

It is already the law. How much more "national policy" do you need it to be? It needs enforcing, and parents with buggies need educating (and perhaps a hefty fine for noncompliance to grease the wheels of behaviour change).

We travel reguarly on our local buses with a double buggy and often 4 to 6 other children walking (we are childminders). We always fold down for wheelchairs as they must have priority for that space. My double buggy is quite big but it does not stop me from folding down. The local bus drivers know us and would much rather have us on their buses, as we make way for wheelchair users, than the people who come on with their shopping trolleys on wheels, who refuse to move for either us or a wheelchair user.

It is already the law. How much more "national policy" do you need it to be? It needs enforcing, and parents with buggies need educating (and perhaps a hefty fine for noncompliance to grease the wheels of behaviour change). Who's going to fine them when bus drivers won't even ask them to move?

@suspiria777. Is it law? Which law requires buggy users to move for wheelchairs? My understanding is that transport companies are required to give priority to wheelchair users as policy but it is not a criminal or regulatory offence for another transport user to refuse to move (though maybe it should be).

I have twins, I can't fold down my buggy on the bus and hold onto both my kids. So when a wheelchair user needs the wheelchair space on a bus, I get off and wait for the next one. Is it inconvenient for me? Yes—sometimes very, very inconvenient—but there you go, that's the situation.

There is not a solution that isn't inconvenient for someone, so parents need to suck it up and disembark if they can't make space. No one is saying it isn't a pain in the arse, but it's what you have to do regardless.

Good Grief it appears one in five MNrs are of the opinion that their buggy takes priority over a person in a wheelchair. Sometimes I hate this place.

@alphabetQ. But what do you do if it's the last bus of the day?

Still no excuse for not giving up the space to the wheelchair user but it does make it harder for a mother who is going to be stuck with small children in the middle of nowhere. I suspect most of the spats between wheelchair users and buggies happen in areas where (unlike where I live) there isn't another bus in 15 minutes time or even that day.

[quote SlothinSpirit]**@suspiria777. Is it law? Which law requires buggy users to move for wheelchairs? My understanding is that transport companies are required to give priority to wheelchair users as policy but it is not a criminal or regulatory offence for another transport user to refuse to move (though maybe it should be).[/quote]
Here's the court ruling
www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/wheelchair-spaces-buses-must-be-priority-court-rules

@MobilityCat. Thank you. What is interesting is that this ruling is still being enforced inconsistently across the country according to posters above. Drivers need to tell people - fold up your buggies or get off the bus.

@PinkPlantCase

I have no idea who would vote YABU OP. Wheelchair spaces on buses are just that. I’m sorry that people don’t respect that OP

@PinkPlantCase Thank you for your kind words. I don't mind the voting, I've found a lot of support and encouragement since writing this

Buggy users should make way for wheelchair users and get of the bus and get on the next one. There is no excuse for this.
If a baby is sleeping then get on the bus, baby wont mind. Its asleep.
Some parents are idiots, just like the ones who park in disabled spaces and think its ok as the parent and child spaces are filled up.

Bus driver should refuse to move if buggy don't get off.

This thread makes me realise how much things have changed. As a young girl I used to get the bus into town early every Saturday morning with my nana. I can vividly remember all the times I was handed a sleeping baby so the mum could fold her buggy. My nana cooing over the warm little baby and me feeling so grown up and responsible. There used to be a real sense of community here, I don't know when or why it changed but it was certainly before covid.

@ShitPoetryClub

Good Grief it appears one in five MNrs are of the opinion that their buggy takes priority over a person in a wheelchair. Sometimes I hate this place.

Quite. And several posters still carrying on as if this is up for debate.

'Some parents are idiots, just like the ones who park in disabled spaces and think its ok as the parent and child spaces are filled up.' This happens frequently - once we found a car in the filled disabled spaces with a note under the windscreen wiper left by the owner: 'Sorry no parent and child space so had to park here'. Not acceptable.

And despite the people claim the inconvenience of managing baby, shopping and buggy on the bus as an excuse: the many times I tried to get on with DS wheelchair and found an empty buggy in the space, the parent having taken baby and shopping out and sat down. Sometimes they even go upstairs in a double decker with baby and leave the empty buggy there.

@Trinxsy

I've just remembered something that happened when my son was a newborn actually. So we had our big carrycot pram (we were in the pram designated bit) and a lady was in the wheelchair part with her dog in a pram () and the driver refused a wheelchair user as the lady with the dog in the pram was there....it made us furious. We would have happily moved but the pram space is small and a wheelchair couldn't physically go there unfortunately. Still annoys me to this day

We get those things on trains. Pain in the arse.

It’s always the only just
Just one bus ride
Just one BB space
Just one van blocking the pavement only be 5min
Just one I prefer to work at this checkout not open the wide one
Just one lift ride instead of using the stairs in a busy place
Just one suitcase in the don’t leave luggage in wheelchair space on a train
It’s only just every time you leave the house.

Exactly akire

Can I add - it’s just one trip into the disabled toilet because it’s a few steps closer

When I used the bus daily with a buggy it was with the understanding that the space was primarily for wheelchair users. I got a city mini partly for this reason - one hand fold so can do it quickly and easily whilst holding the baby. You have to pick a pram that’s suitable for your lifestyle!

[quote SlothinSpirit]@alphabetQ. But what do you do if it's the last bus of the day?

Still no excuse for not giving up the space to the wheelchair user but it does make it harder for a mother who is going to be stuck with small children in the middle of nowhere. I suspect most of the spats between wheelchair users and buggies happen in areas where (unlike where I live) there isn't another bus in 15 minutes time or even that day.[/quote]
Why is it ok for a wheelchair user to be stranded in the middle of nowhere instead???

Years ago bus travellers had a Mclaren fold-up buggy (ours had green stripes and folded up to a thick walking stick) and a more substantial pram/buggy for the rest of the time. They even came as doubles and you'd hand one baby over to whoever on the bus volunteered to have a cuddle. You didn't hang a week's shopping on it (as it tipped over) so you'd use the big pram to go to the corner co-op for this so there was no reason to not collapse your buggy on a bus. How have we 'progressed' to even having this conversation about wheelchair space when you can buy a 2nd-hand buggy that collapses for bus travel.

@CantChatNow. I didn't say that it was acceptable for a wheelchair user to be stuck. In fact, I said the opposite - the mother should fold down the buggy so everyone can get on the bus.

I love all the people advocating handing over your baby to randomers on the bus like we've not been on a pandemic for 16 months

I do think that there should be separate dedicated spaces for buggies and wheelchairs on buses. But then you might get similar situation as supermarket spaces where disabled still use p&c spaces if wheelchair spaces not available, so might cause an issue. And I guess bus drivers dont want to get involved with the policing of these spaces.

But then you might get similar situation as supermarket spaces where disabled still use p&c spaces if wheelchair spaces not available

Erm... people with a blue badge are legally allowed to park anywhere, on a double yellow line, in a P&C space, ANYWHERE.

P&C spaces are a mere courtesy by supermarkets, a marketing tactic, to make parents' lives a little easier thereby attracting them to shop at that place. They have no legal status.

You want protected, legally enforcable buggy spaces on buses? Protected from those pesky disabled people with wheelchairs that won't fold up? You campaign for them!

@Livelovebehappy

I do think that there should be separate dedicated spaces for buggies and wheelchairs on buses. But then you might get similar situation as supermarket spaces where disabled still use p&c spaces if wheelchair spaces not available, so might cause an issue. And I guess bus drivers dont want to get involved with the policing of these spaces.

We have seperate spaces but it's clear that they can be used by others Inc buggies when not needed for a wheelchair user. Without doubling up, buses would be under pressure to convert more space for buggies. You often get the problem here where I'll miss a bus as it's full of buggies, get the next one and go past another parent at the next stop with a pushchair

I’m disabled. Regularly use crutches/frame.
My buggy is often used in lieu of my mobility aid, because it does stabilise me when walking.
I know this is a fairly unusual position to be in, but worth thinking about.