School conducted a LFT on my son, against my consent

[duckme]

We received an email from our school to say that, due to the increase in covid cases, they are going to resume the LFT scheme in school (secondary) rather than at home. They sent an online consent form for parents to complete. I declined consent. I marked the form as such and sent it back electronically. My son was actually isolating until today as his bubble had burst, but I reminded him that he didn't have consent for the tests so he wasn't to have one. I know mistakes can happen and forms can be misplaced so I wanted to make sure he was fully aware of my consent.
He came home today and informed me that he had the test.
He said the whole class was called the the hall. The lady could see on the list that he hasn't got consent and asked him about it. He repeated what I had told him, 'my mom said, I'm not to have one'. The lady then proceeded to lecture him about protecting his family and friends. He is 13 and gave in to the person of authority in front of him. Despite them having explicit instructions to the contrary.
AIBU in being absolutely livid? That person ignored written consent, ignored the verbal consent of my son and then guilted him into having an invasive test.
I'll be contacting the school tomorrow to complain but I'd like to know if my covid fatigue is making me over react a little. But I can't imagine it being ok for a school to override parental consent in this way pre covid! Have we all surrendered all our our rights now? Even our parental ones?

The school should not have applied pressure for your son to have the LFT. If one is asking for permission, one should honour that decision.

At the same time, you are not coming across as having a rational reason for your decision. You said "I don't agree with LFT's, I think they're unreliable." Yes, LFTs are unreliable, but nonetheless they are not random and they provide valuable evidence of Covid spread in this country - ultimately contributing towards saving lives.

Rights exist in a balance, and the bargain we strike in many other areas as well is to run the risk of more people dying in exchange for having the benefits of a lack of coercion. That's the way the UK rolls. The school got this wrong, and they should apologise to you.

That having been said, I'm amazed you haven't been taken apart more on this thread. I'm being relatively chilled about this. I'm sub-60-years-old and have been jabbed twice, and none of my immediate family or social circles have died of Covid. So I can remain polite in a way that others I know would find far more tricky.

Summary: in this country, we are entitled to be make decisions that are bad for others around us in the interests of personal freedom, there are good reasons for this entitlement, it is a good thing, and I support your personal right to benefit from this entitlement, as should we all, but I still think that you are still making a really poor quality decision that would lower you in my eyes if I knew you personally.

If they were trying to force him it seems weird that they would do it so blatantly with witnesses. That just makes me think possibly he would rather have done it and said he was made to do it than face a bollocking from family?

Yes overriding your consent was wrong. However if he enthusiastically wanted to participate of his own accord that makes it different. Even in that instance you or their other guardian should have been spoken to prior to test completion.

Fwiw they really aren't invasive. I have them 3x a week (2 LFT's 1 PCR) and test my residents for covid according to government guidelines. Many have dementia but none have seem distressed by it. I also did our 4yo son and he wasn't fussed by it. As long as the tester instructs them to raise their hand if they want it to stop (or whatever is appropriate for their mental capacity) it won't cause distress.

saraclara
Same here.

Covid has done funny things to Mumsnet. In the good old days people were all ready to tell posters to demand a meeting with the head because their child definitely did nothing wrong and the teacher gave a detention for no reason/gave a detention for asking a single polite question about the work. There were cries of "teachers aren't gods" mixed with claims that threatening Ofsted would get you taken seriously.
On this thread a poster wanting to understandably raise concerns that their consent form has been ignored has had the boot put in for over 30 pages, whilst several school staff posters support OP in speaking to school.

Also I'm unsure if you believe the myth that a covid test must hurt to be done properly. That isn't the case. I run a care home which is one of very few in the county to never have had an outbreak yet touch wood!

Thank god he has more sense than you.

LolaSmiles yes, you're absolutely right. I was blinkered and a bit cross at the op's stance on testing rather than the issue of consent.

@duckme
I doubt you will find this message, but feel it needs to be said regardless…
I think you need to have a serious talk with your son re consent and standing up for what he believes in to authority figures, including you. You keep saying that he gave into authority and had it done, without acknowledging that he did when discussing it with you too.

It’s sounds to me like he never opposed to the procedure, you just didn’t agree with his reasons (reasons that are very standard logic for a 13 yo). Because he was ambivalent to the procedure you then used him as a way to express your own personal political views. When he didn’t feel strongly about them and he would be the one having to go in a defend them. This is low parenting in my opinion.

If he felt strongly about it I can assure you his reasoning when questioned by the nurse would have been a lot stronger than “my mum doesn’t consent”. If a teenager walked in to my classroom and started a discussion with “my mum says” I can assure their reasoning would be ripped to shreds. Granted we are not discussing or implementing medical procedures, but you put him in an unfair position. He is old enough to consent to his own medical care and decisions, whether you agree with his reasons or not

Not being unreasonable at all. You didn’t consent simple as that.

TonytheDog
I understand, and you're not alone. It's understandable that her position is one that many people would disagree with. I disagree with her opinions on lateral flow tests too. It's an emotive subject, especially when many of us have probably got first hand experience of illness or losing people.

She's right to want to speak to school when staff have ignored her consent forms, regardless of what anyone thinks of her decision.

For the umpteenth time - this isn't about personal views on whether he should have taken the test, that's immaterial, it's about consent.

I say this as kindly as possible, and with as much compassion as possible for those who have lost family members to Covid - I am incredibly sorry for your loss, it must be devastating and I cannot imagine the effect on you and your loved ones, you have my sincerest condolences. However, the issue here is that consent was not given, the child said he wasn't to have the test, and then an adult used emotive language to provoke a feeling of guilt, which led to the child giving consent. That is coerced consent. If coerced consent was obtained in any other circumstances, people would be rightly up in arms.

Covid has been - and remains - a highly emotive subject, but it doesn't mean we should abandon the notion of consent (including informed consent by teenagers, where applicable) when discussing issues surrounding it. We cannot say, "coerced consent is fine in these circumstances, because it fits with what I believe to be right" - since LFTs are encouraged, but not mandated, the refusal to consent must be upheld.

It is so important that children and young people understand the concept of consent - in all aspects of their lives. Whether this is consent and information in respect of the law in relation to sex and healthy relationships, or whether it’s consent to very basic things like whether they want to do something or not (like go to the cinema with their friends).

The impact on them and others definitely comes in to how significant this incident was. And for some people to say “but it doesn’t matter, they didn’t give consent” is a bit too simplistic. Life isn’t as black and white as this.

We all do things we aren’t 100% sure about - mostly to make other people happy, or for “the greater good”. Does that mean we aren’t consenting? I’m not so sure. For example, today my little girl (11) didn’t want to go for a walk. But everyone else did so she went along with it. The impact on her was minimal. In work we are provided with LFT’s and asked to do them x 2 per week. It’s not mandatory. I don’t like doing them, I’m not sure how reliable they are. However, the tests have picked up positive cases of Covid which has reduced the spread of the virus around my colleagues. So I go along with it and I do the tests. The impact on me is minimal. I could come up with loads of examples of children, young people and adults making similar decisions.

This is VERY different to a medical procedure that is life altering, or medicine being injected into my body, or me being the victim of a sexual assault. Because the impact of these is significant.

I’m not saying that we should teach our children to always go along with low impact things to make other people happy - but I do think we need to acknowledge that sometimes we do go along with things as a way of compromising.

I suspect in this case your son heard what the nurse / teacher had to say, thought it wasn’t a big deal and just did it as the rest of his class was doing it. He therefore gave consent - but maybe wasn’t 100% sure given the discussion you had with him previously.

We do need to be careful that children and young people know the meaning of consent and I do not want it to appear as though I am minimising how important this is.

If he was genuinely “coerced” then that’s a different matter. I would want to explore that a bit more with him before contacting the school.

He gave his consent. YABU.

You're in the wrong. He should be getting tested, especially if he has been in contact.

Schools can't even trust parents to control nits, nevermind test & keep kids indoors when they're supposed to be isolating or whatever.

How can you moan about consent anyway when he clearly gave his consent & must have wanted to have it done. You're trying to overrule his consent surely?

At 13 he can consent to a covid test. There’s no risks and he understands why he’s doing it. He listened to someone (trained, etc.) and decided to have the test.
He has the right to do that. It’s not a tattoo or operation or even an abortion. Ultimately if it’s in his best interests he doesn’t need your consent.

At 15 I consented to surgery, I’m pretty sure the average 13 year old is capable of consenting (or refusing) a swab up the nose

Sad that people are so wrapped up in doing things for the greater good that they are overlooking the bigger picture. Consent forms are given for a reason and it doesn't matter what they are for the school should not go against the parents wishes. And all the comments saying he's 13 and can make his own mind up, my daughter wanted a piercing when she was 13 so should I have let her or maybe the tattooist should have just gone ahead because she knows her own mind and didn't need my parental consent? They are chipping away at our rights little by little and people are helping them make it easier.

I think it's incredibly selfish not to do the test. I think the member of staff voiced what a lot of people would think. However, it is your right, so you are not being unreasonable - if a consent form was requested and you declined consent, that should have been the end of the matter.

A piercing is a permanent modification, and 13 year olds don’t understand the long term effect, A swab is hardly the comparable since it doesn’t affect the body in any way. It’s more akin to complaining they didn’t get your consent to comb your kid for nits.

I wonder if your son "not having a tick by his name" was mistaken as the consent form not being returned at all as opposed to you refusing consent?

If so, I can understand why they then questioned your son himself on whether he wanted to do it, and I can also imagine them encouraging him to do so and him then deciding to do it, especially if as you say he didn't seem too bothered either way.

If he told them that you explicitly refused consent then I agree that he shouldn't have been pushed and coerced into making a decision on the spot. It just seems mad to me that this would actually happen though?

I wonder if he is exaggerating the truth a bit because he thinks you'll be angry at him otherwise? Maybe the base of this all is they thought the consent form hadn't been returned.

I know that doesn't settle your mind and means they need a better process if that's the case. But a mistake like that is easier to forgive than them asking for your parental consent and then ignoring it because they didn't agree in my personal opinion, especially in this case where there's nothing irreversible or harmful that has happened as a result.

Just my two cents

@PattyPan but they don't comb your kids for nits so you can't use that either. Would you be happy with your child's school ignoring your wishes? This isn't about a lateral flow test it's about the school thinking they have more rights than the parents. We teach our kids about consent and then along comes the school and overrides everything you've taught them, it's sending out the wrong message about what consent actually is and you can make excuses for it all you like but if a parent or guardian says no to something that should be it. People are blinded by the fact that it's covid related and completely missing the point here.

AIBU in being absolutely livid?
Definitely! Good on him.

@mog27 what I think I think has happened here is that her son consented but didn’t want to tell her because she didn’t want him to have it for some bizarre reason. He is old enough to consent for himself and it sounds like the wishes being ignored are the son’s, which are more important than OP’s. Did she even ask him what he wanted? Unfortunately some parents are domineering and it is very difficult for their children to stand up to them.

PattyPan

But you’re just making it up. The OP has said her son was lectured and felt he had to give in. You’ve just changed it to suit yourself.