AIBU to ask Mumsnet to reconsider a decision

[Mummyoflittledragon]

… to relegate certain threads from the AIBU board.

I imagine AIBU is probably the most active board on Mumsnet and therefore reaches the highest audience. Now when someone creates a thread about children’s boundaries being crossed by certain people and women being scared into silence and being attacked by certain groups, the thread quickly disappears out of AIBU and onto another board.

Once off AIBU, the thread receives far less exposure thus radically reduces the possibility to offer information to the widest possible audience. Information, which could be used to help people and particularly women make safety and / or safeguarding decisions about themselves and their children.

Mumsnet to me is like the BBC (in its hey day) of parenting sites. And as Mumsnet is renowned for being such an esteemed hub for information, AIBU to ask Mumsnet to not give in to outside pressure from certain groups and to stop relegating important informational threads without looking at the wider implications.

You are missing the point, if people wanted to read these threads they’d head over to those boards. The fact they do not tells you something. It’s not because they don’t know they are there.

Trans stopped being a debate on here a long time ago, it became an echo chamber. Many people now don’t want to read those threads. Whic is why so many hide them. Forcing people to see it by putting them in aibu isn’t the answer. Informed debate is. Then your audience will increase.

I think it should have been left on AIBU as it was a well covered news story. If no-one clicked on it it would soon disappear from lack of interest.

@AlternativePerspective

Did you think we already knew this or not? Clearly not if you think that a thread needs to be posted on the main boards to make people aware.

So you are clever enough not to need to be told things on MN, but everyone else isn't, hence you needing to explain it to us. Well done you!

It was the thread about the spa, which spurred me to create the post. I don’t remember an exact same thread a month ago. I think we can have more than one, can’t we? Seeing as this is a very important topic as Bandit said *Many ‘ordinary’ women may not know what it is happening without clicking on an interesting thread (which they may not do if in sex/gender/something or other’ topic.

As for putting this thread in site stuff, won’t the footfall be small there as well? So it kind of defeats the object. I’m trying to keep this thread in AIBU.

@EndoplasmicReticulum

It is noticeable, if you look, that only certain threads get shifted in this way. As I said on the thread itself - there are loads of corona threads on the front page of AIBU which don't seem to get moved.

If it was purely about thread classification rather than trying to make sure that some subjects don't reach a wider audience, why are they all still here?

And back in the day - Brexit. a Brexit section was created but loads of Brexit threads stayed in AIBU - I asked about it and MNHQ said they would only move threads if the OP asked - but they move others without the OP's intervention.

@Bluntness100

You are missing the point, if people wanted to read these threads they’d head over to those boards. The fact they do not tells you something. It’s not because they don’t know they are there.

Trans stopped being a debate on here a long time ago, it became an echo chamber. Many people now don’t want to read those threads. Whic is why so many hide them. Forcing people to see it by putting them in aibu isn’t the answer. Informed debate is. Then your audience will increase.

Just to be clear - you are saying if there is a news story published on an event, people are likely to know about it already and seek it out on the relevant board, and someone shouldn't start a thread about it in AIBU?

I'm genuinely trying to work out what criteria a thread needs to have to be accepted in AIBU and when it needs to be in a more dedicated topic.

Well I’ve reported it to mn because maybe they’ll see it then? You see, AIBU is so traffic heavy that HQ don’t spend their days reading it, so if you want them to see something you have to actually tell them about it.

YABU. It’s a chat forum. With boards for different topics so people can choose what they want to read about and avoid other topics.

This isn’t your personal platform to proselytise under the guise of ‘informing’ and ‘safeguarding’. MN allows the content you’re referring to and rightly keeps it sequestered away in order to prevent every board being rife with it. MN has a reputation that puts its popularity and ability to form deals with brands and advertisers at risk due to the vocal tiny minority of posters (who produce these threads) you’re referring to. You’re asking MN to make it so you can post what you like where you like it (but only on your chosen topic, right? You’re not campaigning for separate boards to be broken down completely?) to fulfil your idea that you’re serving the greater good and protecting people, at MN’s expense. Meanwhile the list of boards is available clearly to everyone who uses the site and works fine.

Goodness me, I think you’re really misunderstanding what MN is. It gave me a chuckle though when you tried to compare it to the BBC!

The number of people minimizing and excusing male sexual behaviour in women only spaces on this thread because they believe the perpetrator is trans is disgusting.

Many ‘ordinary’ women may not know what it is happening without clicking on an interesting thread (which they may not do if in sex/gender/something or other’ topic.

I think the reason the separate topic was created in the first place was because the barrage of threads on trans issues and the ensuing bun fights and/or echo chamber type posts, were anything but interesting in the end.

Don't popular threads end up in 'Active' anyway?

I'm genuinely trying to work out what criteria a thread needs to have to be accepted in AIBU and when it needs to be in a more dedicated topic. most threads should be in more dedicated topics.

It’s well accepted on here that if you post on AIBU then you essentially do so with the expectation of a pasting. That if you didn’t want harsh views you shouldn’t be posting in AIBU, etc etc. I don’t necessarily agree with that but reality is that AIBU has become a free for all.

It would in fact be better if the AIBU topic was removed and then people would post in more dedicated topics, and people would be more likely to see the threads because there wouldn’t be AIBU threads filling up most active, so the other topics would be seen.

People would still hide the feminism, COVID topics etc, you’re never going to change that unless the attitude on there changes significantly.

@Bluntness100
Not in the wider population it isn’t. A couple of my friends for example roll their eyes, don’t want to hear anything, say it’ll blow over and know nothing about what is actually going on. For them, it is an irrelevance and won’t touch their families. They have girls btw.

I definitely didn’t get alerted to these issues until we’ll after joined I Mumsnet. I may never have been made aware had I joined today instead of several years ago as I learned a lot AIBU.

@Bluntness100

You are missing the point, if people wanted to read these threads they’d head over to those boards. The fact they do not tells you something. It’s not because they don’t know they are there.

Trans stopped being a debate on here a long time ago, it became an echo chamber. Many people now don’t want to read those threads. Whic is why so many hide them. Forcing people to see it by putting them in aibu isn’t the answer. Informed debate is. Then your audience will increase.

Yep.

It’s not the discussion of trans issues i find problematic. It’s the fact that you can’t actually have any form of discussion on MN on trans threads. Click on a few and you’ll see. Express a dissenting opinion and the mob descend to shrewd posters to pieces gleefully. It turns people who are genuinely curious and open minded away. They’re simply not worth engaging with because you can’t engage on any meaningful level with the way trans threads go here. No wonder lots of people don’t want them to appear in the boards they choose to read.

You have created a situation where any sex offender can immediately get your sympathy and support, and the women complaining become awful bigots who deserve to be silenced..

Apparently you can't see any problem with this and you are castigating women for pointing it out, and deriding 'safeguarding'.
In the UK, safeguarding is everyone's responsibility.

Stop and have a serious think about what you are doing.

@AlternativePerspective

Well I’ve reported it to mn because maybe they’ll see it then? You see, AIBU is so traffic heavy that HQ don’t spend their days reading it, so if you want them to see something you have to actually tell them about it.

Ok thanks.

But to be clear MNHQ I do not want this thread to move.

"AIBU" has been trademarked by MN, iirc, so it's unlikely to go anywhere.

they get moved because people report them, because we don't want them shoved in our faces... because we're sick of the rampant transphobia.

If people want to read them, they can go over there and pat each other on the back about how wonderful they are, how intelligent they are, and how educated they are because they KNOW that trans women aren't REAL women, and how anyone else who believes in everyone elses right to identify how they feel comfortable must be an ignorant, unintelligent person who doesn't want to have their eyes opened to the horror.

snort

We're not, and we don't want to read your crap either, so we report it, they should be moved.

@CardinalLolzy

To be clear, I'm fed up with the widespread transphobia that pervades MN, and regard the view some have of trans people being inherently harmful to women as being claptrap.

No-one thinks that someone's trans status has anything to do with how harmful someone is to women. I assume you are deliberately misrepresenting views here, I don't know why.

There are myriad threads which basically boil down to a) transwomen are men regardless of how long they've been living as a woman / level of medical intervention b) the OP not liking trans people and not wanting them in their space, and justifying their own transphobia by talking about how transwomen apparently present a threat to them. c) saying transwomen should not use female spaces, even when no mixed sex or trans only spaces exist, thus excluding transwomen from services they need to access. d) conveniently forgetting the existence of transmen - and the reality that if you say transwomen should be using male spaces, then transmen must also use female spaces - even when they have a beard, broken voices and a phalloplasty and are not readily distinguishable from someone born male. e) misgendering and otherwise being incredibly rude about trans people

Any disagreement with other people's views on the feminism / sex & gender boards gets shouted down and disregarded. There's never any appreciation that you might have listened to and understood what they're saying, but still hold a very different opinion.

Feminism / S&G boards are an echo chamber.

It’s the fact that you can’t actually have any form of discussion on MN on trans threads.

That's not true, though, is it? Discuss in good faith and don't pretend you know what you're talking about if you don't, and you'll be fine. I'd love to get more varied opinions over there but questions asked to probe e.g. what has gender got to do with bodies, how does one know what gender they are, etc usually generate interesting discussions yet people don't want to admit when they can't answer e.g. what makes someone a man or woman? or don't want to get into it and just end up saying everyone is right-wing or something.

I've been on there years and repeatedly say I want to know and understand the thought processes behind the opposing POV from mine, and I don't automatically agree with everyone else on there either. A few posters have had the grace to post thoughtful and articulate responses and it usually results in increased mutual understanding.

@CardinalLolzy

"AIBU" has been trademarked by MN, iirc, so it's unlikely to go anywhere.

But you're asking MNHQ to reconsider their policy, so it ought to be in that section.. like the trans thread, the coronavirus threads and anything else 'posting here for traffic' thats got its own section that people can visit or hide dependent on what they want to read/discuss.

If Feminism is an echo chamber, who is to blame, other than the posters using it?

imho, not that it was asked for, it shouldn't even be on MN, they all ought to bog off and start their own Transphobic/GC forum so we don't have to see it at all.

But to be clear MNHQ I do not want this thread to move.

You know this should be in site stuff and you’ve decided to disregard that for your agenda. So I’m not sure MN will be that bothered about having to move or delete another of your threads today. Be careful though, you might end up being banned if you keep doing it.

But you're asking MNHQ to reconsider their policy, so it ought to be in that section..

What do you mean? What should be?

sorry cardinal, it quoted the wrong one, that was aimed at @Mummyoflittledragon

No thank you. Leave the echo chamber where it is.

I'm also delighted that the echo chamber has been removed from the main feminism board so other issues can be discussed without being drowned out.

Discuss in good faith and don't pretend you know what you're talking about if you don't, and you'll be fine.

😂 yes, this attitude fosters open respectful discussion. Have you heard yourself?