AIBU to ask Mumsnet to reconsider a decision

[Mummyoflittledragon]

… to relegate certain threads from the AIBU board.

I imagine AIBU is probably the most active board on Mumsnet and therefore reaches the highest audience. Now when someone creates a thread about children’s boundaries being crossed by certain people and women being scared into silence and being attacked by certain groups, the thread quickly disappears out of AIBU and onto another board.

Once off AIBU, the thread receives far less exposure thus radically reduces the possibility to offer information to the widest possible audience. Information, which could be used to help people and particularly women make safety and / or safeguarding decisions about themselves and their children.

Mumsnet to me is like the BBC (in its hey day) of parenting sites. And as Mumsnet is renowned for being such an esteemed hub for information, AIBU to ask Mumsnet to not give in to outside pressure from certain groups and to stop relegating important informational threads without looking at the wider implications.

@Coyoacan

It is sad to see how many people are automatically assuming that an intact naked man in the women and children's part of a Spa is trans and anyone objecting his presence is only doing so out of an extreme hatred or fear of transpeople. Personally as a mother I think I need what my child might be exposed to in a supposedly single-sex public space

I don't know what case you're on about, but in my experience (and yes, I have plenty of experience, see upthread) trans people spend much of their time trying to 'pass' as the gender they identify as.

No bloody way would a transwoman spend all day trying to pass as a woman and then whack out a penis for all to see. The idea of having to undress in public is the stuff of nightmares for all those I've met - the very thought of going swimming would be terrifying.

Sex offenders exist - but you won't eliminate them by trying to exclude transwomen from public spaces.

I find it a bit weird that anyone would take their child to a space, even if it is a women and children's space, where there's lots of naked strangers, as it sounds like has happened in this case.

@MotherOffCod

Just so people know, the gender critical discussion has been given it’s own board now, called Sex and Gender Debate.

The board now called Feminism Chat has been liberated for discussion of the rest of feminism.

Naturally, the gender critical posters are mostly very cross about this, and keep posting the usual stuff into the new board, but mnhq is doing a good job so far of holding the space for inclusive feminism.

Absolutely ridiculous!! Feminism and women’s rights are completely linked. More pandering to a small minority who are not happy to just live their own lives but must police the lives of all women before they are happy. When will this nonsense end.

So why do you think the thread shouldn't have been in AIBU if you haven't read it and don't know what the content was?

I haven't said the thread shouldn't have been in AIBU?

I said I can understand why MNHQ ended up making a separate topic for trans issues.

Why do the anti trans lot need a voting tool? They all agree with each other and pounce on anyone who disagrees.

Acting like they have some superior knowledge. But they don’t. It’s just that most of us don’t see it as an issue. The minority of m2f trans that are sexual predators is very much that - a minority. Similarly trans athletes. Honestly, swap the word ‘trans’ for ‘Islam’ and actually read what is written. There are so many things happily ‘normal’ now that could get you killed not so long ago, be bloody tolerant ffs. Trans are a minority doing something you don’t agree with. Pretty much fits the description of any bigoted view, and they are all convinced they’re rabidly correct too.

Shoving these bigoted views down our throats just makes us step away even further. Gradually users will block you all then you can preach to your choir (although some choirs aren’t accepting of everyone, so…).

@Bunnyfuller

Why do the anti trans lot need a voting tool? They all agree with each other and pounce on anyone who disagrees.

Acting like they have some superior knowledge. But they don’t. It’s just that most of us don’t see it as an issue. The minority of m2f trans that are sexual predators is very much that - a minority. Similarly trans athletes. Honestly, swap the word ‘trans’ for ‘Islam’ and actually read what is written. There are so many things happily ‘normal’ now that could get you killed not so long ago, be bloody tolerant ffs. Trans are a minority doing something you don’t agree with. Pretty much fits the description of any bigoted view, and they are all convinced they’re rabidly correct too.

Shoving these bigoted views down our throats just makes us step away even further. Gradually users will block you all then you can preach to your choir (although some choirs aren’t accepting of everyone, so…).

Why stop there?

Let's swap the word "trans" for "banana". Let's swap it for "macaroni cheese". Swap it for "badgers on toast".

Let's just go mental why don't we?!

Woooooh!

I’ve had a response. The thread is staying in AIBU.

I’m surprised at the voting split. I think some people are voting against Covid threads and Brexit threads by the sound of some posts?

As for the discussion around the sex and gender debate board, a lot of us are unhappy with the naming. When a thread on safeguarding gets relegated to a topic, which is classed as a debate’, it rather illustrates why we aren’t happy, doesn’t it?

From a professional point of view, males exposing themselves to women and children in a sex segregated space (or anywhere else) is certainly a safeguarding issue.

@MotherOffCod

Just so people know, the gender critical discussion has been given it’s own board now, called Sex and Gender Debate.

The board now called Feminism Chat has been liberated for discussion of the rest of feminism.

Naturally, the gender critical posters are mostly very cross about this, and keep posting the usual stuff into the new board, but mnhq is doing a good job so far of holding the space for inclusive feminism.

Oh, that’s wonderful! I didn’t realise (I avoid it like the plague for obvious reasons). When did this happen? Really pleased to hear this from MN. Nice one MNHQ

Let's swap the word "trans" for "banana". Let's swap it for "macaroni cheese".

😂

I am even more confused.

Was the person with the penis trans or not?

And are people here saying that it was ok with an exposed penis next to a little girl or not?

And why can’t we discuss it here?

I’ve had a response. The thread is staying in AIBU

Thank you MNHQ.

Why stop there?

Let's swap the word "trans" for "banana". Let's swap it for "macaroni cheese". Swap it for "badgers on toast".

Let's just go mental why don't we?!

Woooooh!

I'm sorry but it has to be said - U OK hun?!

The issue, Bunny, with trans athletes is not that they might be "sexual predators".
Can you really not think of any other reasons why women might object to an Olympic place in a women's sport, for example, going to someone who lived many years as a man?

@LittleMyTopKnot

I am even more confused.

Was the person with the penis trans or not?

And are people here saying that it was ok with an exposed penis next to a little girl or not?

And why can’t we discuss it here?

all good points there littlemytopknot

@LittleMyTopKnot

I am even more confused.

Was the person with the penis trans or not?

And are people here saying that it was ok with an exposed penis next to a little girl or not?

And why can’t we discuss it here?

How the hell fo we know whether or not the person identified as trans? That’s the point. The op didn’t know. A lot of assumptions were being made. That no one at the spa including the staff could even ask the person is a massive safeguarding issue in itself.

I’m surprised at the voting split.

Why? Outside of the echo chamber there are other opinions availabIe, so I'm not surprised at it.

think some people are voting against Covid threads and Brexit threads by the sound of some posts?
Oh yes, because that must be the explanation - posters in here are too daft to know what they're voting for

@LittleMyTopKnot

I am even more confused.

Was the person with the penis trans or not?

And are people here saying that it was ok with an exposed penis next to a little girl or not?

And why can’t we discuss it here?

Some dispute. The staff member first claimed “sexual orientation” was the issue. The women seemed to think it was a man.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=6VRaC-tFCEM

No bloody way would a transwoman spend all day trying to pass as a woman and then whack out a penis for all to see. The idea of having to undress in public is the stuff of nightmares for all those I've met - the very thought of going swimming would be terrifying.

But this has happened, unless your point is that the person is not truly trans or something? It's sort of what was being discussed.
"Trans" no longer only means people that essentially want to pass for the opposite sex - there is a growing argument that innate and invisible gender identity trumps sex in law and policy. Nothing to do with gender expression or clothes or surgery or gender dysphoria, which most of us are sympathetic to - but these ppl are derided as "truscum" (sorry for gross language) by the current trans movement.

@AlternativePerspective

YABU, I’m sick to the back teeth of having a minority of mumsnetters make everything about trans issues. You’ve got a whole board for it, go and post it all there to your hearts content This. I have the feminism boards hidden for good reason. Am sick of the transphobia constantly demonstrated by some, go and take your bigotry where the rest of us don’t have to see it.

I also have the COVID topic hidden, and I reported a thread only this morning and it was moved there.

“The wider audience needs to see it” is just an excuse to foist your unpleasant views on to the masses under the banner of “people should know.” We’re all educated people, perfectly capable of reading the news etc without having to come on to mn to be educated.

Well said @AlternativePerspective. These anti-trans posters are like a dog with a bone, and the exact same discussion was on AIBU a couple of weeks ago!

Hello Quaggers. I see you’ve arrived.

Right? Can't believe these so-called feminists supporting such a horribly transphobic six-year-old girl! Don't they know that when a man flashes his dick at you, it's rude to look?

beastlyslumber

yes.... the re-education of the 6 year old is the solution. Obviously.

And are people here saying that it was ok with an exposed penis next to a little girl or not?

And why can’t we discuss it here?

Some posters subscribe the view that if a male person self identifies instead of surgically transitioning, their penis becomes a “girl dick” or sometimes a very large clitoris (or some other terms vice versa). The theory goes that “girl dicks” and similar are literal female genitalia, so it is fine for them to be in woman-only spas, changing rooms, swim sessions and so on.

www.dailydot.com/irl/trans-sex-genitalia-girldick/

And there are trans ppl on some of the threads who feel attacked and harmed by the current trans movement I described v briefly in my previous post.

It's not a case of "pro" or "anti" trans in most cases. For example, what might suit a transwomen - segregation of prison by gender not sex, as it currently is in the women's estate - may have horrendous consequences for a trans man, who may prefer the opposite. So it's not a blanket rule that will help all trans ppl, and trans men are often bottom of the pile in terms of whose needs are considered.

Oh, that’s wonderful! I didn’t realise (I avoid it like the plague for obvious reasons). When did this happen? Really pleased to hear this from MN. Nice one MNHQ

A few weeks ago. It's brilliant - I can actually read interesting feminism threads now!