To think that the sadder you are the less people want to help you

[Whereisalltherumgone]

Just an observation really.

Person 1: A “strong” person. Always happy (or seems to be) coping, wprking hard, surviver.
If person 1 looks a bit tired or emotional, multiple people ask if they are okay and if they need a hand.

Person 2: Somebody who has lower coping capacity,?frequently feels overwhelmed, asks for help on a semi-regular basis, quite easily moved to tears. If person 2 is looking stressed or emotional, it is not commented upon, no support offered.

This is what I see at my workplace. It’s common isn’t it? I suppose it’s the ‘boy who cried wolf’ problem, except person 2 really genuinely struggles, it’s just once people realise their offer of support may actually be taken up, or needed again, they don’t want to know.

Does this pattern sound familiar to others? AIBU?

Hi @MindyStClaire Yes you’re right, and thanks for taking time to answer in the playground.

My follow up post was a bit woe-is-me, but I do actually get what everyone is saying about being a drain.

I don’t think I need counselling (I have tried and we didn’t have that much to talk about, plus it was v.expensive) or medication because I am not depressed.

I think for me it’s a case of just needing to have more resilience-building factors in my life, friends and hobbies and activities etc but of course that’s what’s been so hard over covid.

I also totally agree with what you said @TigersandTeddybears. When there is an actual mental health problem, sadly the advice to reach out could be counterproductive in many situations for this very reason. Reaching out and getting knocked back or ignored is painful. It can feed the feelings of “nobody cares / it would be better for everyone else if I wasn’t here dragging everyone down”. Reach out to health professionals, yes. Close family - yes. Reach out to friends or colleagues- maybe...but also maybe not.

@Jellybabiesforbreakfast

OP, it sounds like you'd be better to look to out-of-work relationships and/or counselling for the support you need. If you have close relationships with colleagues that means they can support you in this way, that's great but most work colleagues keep things fairly professional/superficial ime.

That's also a very good point. Most work colleagues - apart from those few who have tipped over into genuine friends -- will feel that its not their job to provide to support to people who they work with. And that's fair enough really.

Person B should put other support networks in place to make sure that they are not reliant on work colleagues for this.

Well, imo your Person 1 and Person 2 thinking is overly simplistic but regarding your specific work situation I think that as you only started in your current job last year you need to bear in mind that your colleagues don’t really know you very well, especially given how things have been over the last year.

So for them and based on what you’ve posted, what they do know of you suggests you’re likely to come across to them as somebody whose baseline is ‘needy’ (sorry, I realise nobody likes to think of themselves that way). They may well even think you’re perfectly nice too, I’m not suggesting they dislike you but I can understand why there might be a reluctance to be the one who starts checking in on you. They just don’t know the whole you well enough to know what level of ‘supportive’ they might be getting themselves into.

You’re in danger of comparing your internal reality to your perception of other peoples’ situations. They may have struggles you don’t know about because they don’t share them in the workplace. I’ve been person A, last year during lockdown I was holding a lot of people up and it takes its toll, by the end of the year I really was crumbling. I don’t like to share that kind of thing with colleagues unless I’m friends with them outside work too. You cannot pour from an empty cup and many of us have become so, so drained. You can only expect so much support in the workplace and if you are really, really struggling then external, professional help is the way to go. I’m sorry if that sounds mean, it does not in any way seek to minimize what you are experiencing, just to say that you can’t expect work colleagues to be really invested in providing intensive or long term support, they are there to do a job like everyone else.

"It’s got me to a place where I don’t feel I have permission to be open with them any more."

But op your colleagues are doing the same job in the same circumstances.

In fact, they may have partners on furlough or who have lost their jobs, experienced the misery of home-learning, spent the last year supporting shielding or elderly relatives.

I'm sure you can understand why someone in the exact same position, or worse, would struggle to find the reserves to support you.

The past year has been rubbish for everyone, and many of us are just battening the hatches and living week to week until things get more back to normal. People repeatedly expecting a non-existent solution are wearing.

I think the opposite is true (from experience). DH and I don't complain or moan, or overshare personal issues, and people tend to think we are always happy and can cope with everything, which is obviously not the case.

We've had a really tough year, due to covid and one of our DC who has sn and has to attend lots of appointments and need lots of support in school. Most people we know believe our life is great, we need no support, and DC can't be "that difficult". So we avoid telling anyone about the difficulties we go through, what's the point?

When you look strong and resilient people start thinking you can take anything in life and start minimising the difficulties you go through.

I know a few people who are constantly whining about how unfair life is and they seem to get help and sympathy so go figure . I think sometimes people who get the most out of life are the ones who constantly and subtly complain.

Now when I hear them complaining I just agree with them but don't volunteer any help or support. And I have had to learn how to say no.

You do raise a good point, OP, about the message about "reaching out" and the constant call to do so if you need help.

Because the reality of "reaching out" is more nuanced than it would appear.

In an ideal world you'd "reach out" and say you need help, want someone to talk to etc. In practice in many situations that isn't desirable in the workplace. Things have improved a lot particularly during COVID but it is still seen as a sign of weakness to some extent.

I think if workplaces are serious about this they ought to put more formal mentoring networks in place to deal with this sort of thing -- and the mentor/mentees should be selected to create a situation where they actually have something to offer one another.

But I do think its incumbent on the Person B people to be judicious about how and to whom they "reach out". Doing so in a targeted way with a trusted person is constructive. Doing so indiscriminately and unprofessionally will create resentment.

I'm.sorry you are having a rough time op

Sadly though I think everyone has their own problems whether you know about them or not. And everyone else is struggling with exactly the same things and there's just not always room for something else..not when there are trained and paid professionals who's job it is to help people in those situations.

I ended up responsible for someone may many years ago. I did my best to be there for them but it was too much. I was a student so not only was I paying to he there to learn so technically paying for thr privilege of doing all the support staffs work for them, it really inhibited my ability to do anything..one tine I went to the bar for 5 mins to get us a drink and she fell down the stairs. I know it wasn't her fault but there were staff dealing with her and they sent fir me. An 18 year old at the time witg zero life experience really and I had just wanted to get a bloody drink.

It actually didn't help her because witg me am carrying the load , well she was there far longer than she should have been and didn't get the help she needed as soon as she needed.

I've also known.a few person.2s who appear to seek.out the drama. You tell them to cut X out if their life they are dragging you down, eating your food smoking your cigarettes and costing your money and you spend your time either moaning about them or on the phone phone them.when you should be working. But they never listen. And if they do then a week.later there's another time and energy vampire in their life.

As much as people care about about friends and work colleagues sometimes it becomes apparent that they cant actually cope without their drama and seem.to actively seek.it out.

Ultimately the responsibility lies with the person to seek help when they need it and to not increase the work.load if others.

I know that sounds harsh but appearing ti be OK doesn't mean you are OK and ut doesn't mean you have the ability to help others when you are only just keeping it together yourself.

I hope you will be ok op lockdowns etc have reakky not helped anyone have they

Sorry OP, I didn't read it as you were the person, I thought you were talking as an observer.

So you've had quite a few of the same opinion through this thread,

How about we discuss how to get out of this pattern?
Get you a little bit happier, because you must feel quite alone.
What is it thats making you cry? Any particular triggers?
When there's a triggering situation, can you try and think about it for a moment?
What has made this situation the way it is? If its necessity and for the greater good,
Then- OK so I have to face this, as unfortunate as it feels. It has to be faced for x/y/z.

What will the outcome be? A positive?! Something to look forward to?

How long will it take?.. if its a quick task, then that might make it easier to face.

Once you've finished the task, think about the strength it took to face that task, the skills you used, the outcome you have achieved.

Quietly celebrate that, each time you achieve getting through something that was hard for you.

Journal your thoughts and feelings, get some counselling, and take up some hobbies to improve your confidence. Exercising really helped me get confidence in my body and myself.

Please work on this, as its no way to live

Chris Rock does a bit about how when he had a rubbish car it would break down constantly. He said if he stood trying to flag down help miserably nobody stopped, but if he started pushing the car people would stop and help.

People want to feel positive. Listening to someone crying about the same problems fir the millionth time just makes you feel flat because you know you can’t help them/they won’t help themselves. If you feel you can actually make a difference and help someone I think you’re more likely to get stuck in with them, because you know your efforts will be rewarded.

Thanks @Fuckitfuckit, it’s okay I deliberately posted as an observer to start with just to see whether other people agreed with what I thought, without any personal judgement on me or my scenario.

Those are helpful questions, I’ll have a good think about them x

My colleagues like me (I think) and they know I am finding things tough working from home, but they never, ever check in on me. Never ask how I am or if I need help.

Why would they though. Unless you were a close colleague, I wouldn't ask either. I'd assume you'd have friends, family and close colleagues to support you and didn't need a random check in.

@Ifitquacks

People don’t offer support in a vacuum... often person C (the one observing and offering the support) will have their own issues and difficulties, and while they may be able to offer one off support to someone like person A, this may feel like a more daunting task if it’s an ongoing thing. I don’t mean to be harsh but people have their own shit going on and don’t always have the time, mental space or inclination to provide ongoing support. I’m person D... outwardly strong, never seen to struggle, never ask for help but inside often falling apart. I might look heartless if I can’t offer support to someone like person B, but it’s usually because I’ve got stuff going on that no one knows about and it’s hard enough keeping myself on an even keel.

This. I have quite severe PTSD from child bereavement and a son with autism that manifests mostly as violence and abuse towards us and quite frankly, I don't have headspace for person 2. Just don't have the room for it much as already drained to the max. It's unfair to judge others for not 'helping' with someone who seems to have a lot of high needs, they may have enough on their plates themselves.

I know a couple of 2s and I have to set boundaries for myself otherwise they can be really stifling. At some point you have to take at least some personal responsibility for your mental health.

I think you have unrealistic expectations of your colleagues OP.
While you have high expectations of them your expectations of yourself will be low.

If you are struggling with actually completing your work then you need to discuss with your line manager.

@IsabelAllende

I think the opposite is true (from experience). DH and I don't complain or moan, or overshare personal issues, and people tend to think we are always happy and can cope with everything, which is obviously not the case.

We've had a really tough year, due to covid and one of our DC who has sn and has to attend lots of appointments and need lots of support in school. Most people we know believe our life is great, we need no support, and DC can't be "that difficult". So we avoid telling anyone about the difficulties we go through, what's the point?

When you look strong and resilient people start thinking you can take anything in life and start minimising the difficulties you go through.

I know a few people who are constantly whining about how unfair life is and they seem to get help and sympathy so go figure . I think sometimes people who get the most out of life are the ones who constantly and subtly complain.

Now when I hear them complaining I just agree with them but don't volunteer any help or support. And I have had to learn how to say no.

Totally this (parent of sn/disabled young adult).

@Bryonyshcmyony

I know a couple of 2s and I have to set boundaries for myself otherwise they can be really stifling. At some point you have to take at least some personal responsibility for your mental health.

Yes, I know one person like this IRL. My best friend is one of the most efficient, organised person I've ever met and she's even had to set firm boundaries with this person.

Exactly, Isabelle and Piel.

Person B is bloody hard work. It totally puts me off helping them because it usually doesn't help. It's not about them needing help (at all) I am very happy to help - it's the incessant moan of 'poor me' that makes me want to scream. It's bloody hard to keep helping someone who won't help themselves.

My parents are A and B. I feel that if parent A needs something, it's genuine. If parent B needs something it's just because they want to inflict their unhappiness on me.

It might not be that they don't want to help person 2, but they don't have the capacity to, or they know that they can't help person 2 - they have to help themselves.

Sorry, person B. I knew a person B and really went out of my way to help them - never made a fucking bit of difference, it seemed like they wanted to be miserable, never saw the light or positive in anything. Bloody draining. Couldn't take it any more. Now I avoid these types for my own wellbeing I just don't have the mental capacity to deal with it.

@Whereisalltherumgone

The story behind my question is that I have been both types.

In my last workplace, where I worked for many years, I was person A, I coped with everything thrown at me and more. Quite often I would have people checking in on me, asking if I was okay or needed help, especially if I was looking tired or they knew something stressful was coming up. I never took them up on the offers though.

Eventually (perhaps predictably) I burned out. I took time out to study and last year started a new job in a similar but different field. I can do the job no problem, but my confidence is easily shaken and I am much less tolerant of stress than I used to be. I have become person B.
Despite usually being a happy (and always helpful) person, I did have quite a few emotional wobbles when things got a bit much or I felt overwhelmed. Not every day, maybe every couple of months. And I had a lot of questions for my manager, some of which were probably anxious questions.

Them came covid, and we’re working from home. I live alone and our job is public facing and dealing with other people’s problems (now over zoom) amd I have had nobody to decompress with at the end of the day. It’s been a hard year, and again there have been tears on more than one occasion with my manager.

My colleagues like me (I think) and they know I am finding things tough working from home, but they never, ever check in on me. Never ask how I am or if I need help. But when a ‘strong’ colleague was stressed in a meeting today (unheard of for her) she got lots of lovely follow up texts with encouraging messages etc.

It made me feel quite lonely and un-cared-about, and I realise it’s not about my colleagues being uncaring people, it’s about me. I have changed. A kind text would mean the absolute world to me, but I am not person A any more. I am person B and I feel like I’ve been written off a bit.
Itonically, the lesson I learned from my burn out was to reach out for help more, and accept help when it’s offered. Unfortunately now I am a bit more vulnerable, help is never offered.

It’s got me to a place where I don’t feel I have permission to be open with them any more. I would love to change my colleagues perceptions of me and get to a place where we offer mutual support to one another (yes, I do offer support to others- I was one of the ones to text the strong colleague) but I think it’s going to take years of me being “strong / coping” and slapping on a smile to counteract nearly 3 years of being person B and get back to that place of being respected and worthy of compassion. If it’s even possible at all.

Good grief OP you're making this sound like nothing! If I had a confidence wobble it would involve being in the first month or two of a new situation, momentarily doubting myself and asking a friendly face if I've got it right that in situation X I should do Y. Crying at your manager every 2mths because you're emotional and overwhelmed doesn't sound like a confidence wobble but something else. I'm going to suggest you're in the wrong job if it makes you cry more than once (whether anyone sees the tears or not).

It could just be that you haven't mentioned it, but you say there's nobody to decompress with at the end of the day and you're making it sound like this is part of your troubles, so I'm wondering what you're doing to counteract that? What relaxation methods are you using at the end of the day instead of a person to decompress with? I'm also wondering, if you live alone, who you decompressed with before lockdown and whether it involved leaning on work colleagues?

Covid has been hard on absolutely everyone. Nobody has been supporting anybody through covid, on the whole. Excluding paid NHS/care staff, and relatives run ragged supporting the CEV who were shielding. Everyone has just been muddling through, so I find it odd that you seem to think you deserve extra support just because you're struggling with the pandemic. We all deserve extra support for this, we're all struggling, but that being the situation means there's precisely none to go around!

As a person A almost nobody checks on me, ever, and I cover it extremely well when I'm having difficulty. I have to be seriously ill before anyone thinks I look "tired". So the fact you had people checking in on you regularly and noticing you looked tired frequently, makes me think you might always have been a person B but coping with it, with a little support, until recent years it's got out of control and now you're an outcast ( ).

The part about feeling you don't have permission to be open with people also screams person B to me. Person A generally wouldn't dream of being that open with anyone, especially work colleagues, because they know nobody wants to hear their negativity and that it wouldn't necessarily help them to talk about it either.

Maybe make some lists? Where you're at in life. What's working. What's not working. What the options are for fixing/changing/dealing with it. Checking in with yourself monthly to monitor your progress and having a reassessment (with yourself) in 6 months to see if there's anything else you want/need to do differently, or change or add to your life.

If you want to have pleasant conversations with people talk about the positive changes you're making, the solutions you're trying and the results you're seeing. That's how to share your personal business in a way that people are happy to hear it.

I thibk that's right I think type two person can be very draining to others and suck the energy out of those around them and the people around them feel like it's not worth their effort as they never seem to happy or fixed.

I have been type one and type two and the person around both types in various seasons of forty years. I've been the helper and the upbeat one for a long time but I'm entering into the type two zone atm so I see myself withdrawing somewhat so as not to drag ppl down or lose my reputation at work as perky and a go getter and not someone people don't want be around as I lower the tone. I can get away with this somewhat working from home but it's hard.

Pearson B can get frustrating after a while if it feels they totally lack any resilience or coping strategies.

It's one thing to ask for help occasionally, quite another to be completely unable to handle a normal level of life's troubles.

Person 2 needs to sort themselves out