To think that the sadder you are the less people want to help you

[Whereisalltherumgone]

Just an observation really.

Person 1: A “strong” person. Always happy (or seems to be) coping, wprking hard, surviver.
If person 1 looks a bit tired or emotional, multiple people ask if they are okay and if they need a hand.

Person 2: Somebody who has lower coping capacity,?frequently feels overwhelmed, asks for help on a semi-regular basis, quite easily moved to tears. If person 2 is looking stressed or emotional, it is not commented upon, no support offered.

This is what I see at my workplace. It’s common isn’t it? I suppose it’s the ‘boy who cried wolf’ problem, except person 2 really genuinely struggles, it’s just once people realise their offer of support may actually be taken up, or needed again, they don’t want to know.

Does this pattern sound familiar to others? AIBU?

I have a neighbour/fellow parent at school who is a person 2, her problems stem from mental health issues I believe as the main pillars which keep your life on an even keel (finances, health, supportive partner) are all there, and she has told me she is getting professional mental health support. Which is great.
A continuous stream of people have come into her life and tried to give her the support she wants (including me) but although she asks for advice there are always 1001 reasons why she can't act on it, but she will raise the topic over and over again while completely rejecting any suggestions, no matter how thoughtful of gently given. Just listening and being a shoulder to cry on becomes exhausting as it is back to the same things repeatedly and even when she is causing her own problems she won't change what she's doing to avoid them she'd rather just offload onto you. Each person who has tried to support her gradually becomes exhausted and backs away from that role, she is hurt and upset.
So in a nutshell it is far easier to deal someone down than pull someone up so ultimately there is a limit to what you can do for person 2. The compassionate will still try to be kind but for a chronic problem you can't step in constantly and be getting nowhere, that's the kind of person who needs something more which only close family or professionals are in a position to give.
It's sad for person 2 (I was person 2 at one dark stage in my life) but understandable.

I recognise this too, and think I'm a bit guilty of it myself - feeling more sympathetic towards friends who are person one than person two.

I think its because in my friendship group we all juggle DC/jobs so by constantly helping out/listening to "person 2" I sort of feel like I'n doing her emotional labour/mental load as well as my own and that's not sustainable.

@MareMare I totally agree with your post.

In fact I see this not only in the workplace, it happens in families, relationships, friendships etc.

As a 'strong person', it gets really wearing to always having to be supporting other people and getting little back for yourself.

There is a point in a workplace where people with behaviour like person B impact on the delivery, on other’s workload, on workplace stress and culture. They effectively lower morale.

Some might be significant mental health problems which should be addressed through occupational health and their GP, but for some it’s quite manipulative behaviour or personality trait. For those who are sabotaging the team, there needs to be appropriate performance management. They need to support to learn more appropriate professional behaviour.

As a Person A who grew up with a Person B, I always felt that there was a presumption that because I didn't cry and shout at the drop of a hat, I somehow had fewer feelings. My quiet disappointment was certainly frequently disregarded in the face of my noisier sibling.

I now have next to no truck with Person Bs. A loved one having a difficult time can have as much support from me as they want, going on for years in some cases. But overreact to every little thing while the rest of us get on with life and I'll be smiling, nodding and backing away.

In general, yes I suppose so. People expect people like #2 to always feel sad so it’s nothing new to them whereas #1 is usually different so it’s odd to see them sad.

I’ve always been quite a strong and resilient person but have struggled with my MH this year since the winter lockdown really. Nobody has bothered to ask me how I am despite it being obvious I’m struggling which has made me feel worse.

People help people who want to help themselves. A bit like with alcoholics, you can’t help them unless they want help. Feeling down, being defeatist can be like an addiction as in it spirals, it used to be for me.
Also I think a lot of it is subconscious, sort of thinking that this person can drag you/ your resources (time, energy) down.

I know someone like this she is offended that people are not going an extra mile for her, that strong don’t help out the weak, would like others to take care of her, etc. It always sounds so demanding of others, even though that person would never see herself as demanding.

@RavingAnnie

It makes me so sad to read things like "person 2 can become very wearing". I feel like a social life and support network is only there for people who are fit, well and can be cheery for the vast majority of the time.

Person 2 would benefit from professional help and support. Otherwise their ability to manage their circumstances/issues is not being addressed. Otherwise not only does any support offered often merely become absorbed and ineffective, the person being supportive can end up drained and unable to extract themselves, even if they are now in difficulty. Like doing a charity fundraiser for a specific project, or promising to donate a monthly sum for the rest of your life.

Sadly I would see person 1 as actually trying to get on with things. Person 2 probably does very little to help themselves and is quite happy to put others out, and gain the attention of being sad.

The public emotion doesn't mean that number 2 is struggling more.

I'm more of a person 1. Usually being the "strong" person means I'm picking everyone else up, despite having quite a few issues of my own, including CPTSD, GAD, OCD, Depression, an eating disorder and CFS.
If I asked anyone for help, because of the rarely I ever ask anyone for anything, most people I know would help me.

I know plenty of people who are no2 who are always asking for help, and saying that they can't cope. It gets tiring quickly. It becomes a massive weight to take on when you know that it's going to take all sorts of effort, physical, and mental to be what they need from you.

Theyre also usually the last person in line to ask if you're ok.

It's interesting that people assume person B 'doesn't want to help themselves'.

@DrinkFeckArseGirls

People help people who want to help themselves. A bit like with alcoholics, you can’t help them unless they want help. Feeling down, being defeatist can be like an addiction as in it spirals, it used to be for me. Also I think a lot of it is subconscious, sort of thinking that this person can drag you/ your resources (time, energy) down.

I know someone like this she is offended that people are not going an extra mile for her, that strong don’t help out the weak, would like others to take care of her, etc. It always sounds so demanding of others, even though that person would never see herself as demanding.

True, and certainly in the case of my Person 2, she doesn’t want discrete practical ‘help’ or a listening ear — she wants someone to rescue her, to sweep her away from all her difficulties, stand before her in perpetuity with a flaming sword etc. However she is far too demanding of friends and partners, who distance themselves from her eventually because of the relentlessness, and I know that other sympathetic colleagues who are still in the same workplace have lost patience, because she’s so difficult to manage, is always seeking a lightening of her workload with the veiled threat that if she’s overloaded, she’ll need to be signed off sick for months again.

I listen when she calls and message occasionally from where I now live, but I can’t do what she wants, which is to ‘save’ her.

I’m happy to support person B. However, it does get wearing and the reason for this is because it is continuous, a pattern emerges. It’s not just that they are ‘built to be more emotional’ which could be true.....it’s more that they never actually do anything to help themselves.

You can have 10 conversations about something, and essentially each time you are saying the same thing. And no action is taken, I’d go so far as to say Person B types are often stuck in ‘blaming everyone and everything else’ rather than taking responsibility for their own problems. Which incidentally is usually the opposite of people in Person A category, they tend not to blame everyone else but take responsibility for their own issues and enact changes, hence them being easier to support. They just need one or two conversations, to work it through, then they enact some changes.

If something is a standard situation, no one will of course comment. While unusual behaviour obviously gets noted. It's simple as that.

I think Person 2 would get less support because many people don't have the extra emotional capacity at the best of times. Personally, I find myself to be more supportive of someone who has actually done something to help themselves.

I seem to attract person B’s. I have a couple of friends who are…I love them, but honestly, it can be quite draining. The main issue is that they never really want advice! They’ll ask for it, then ignore it. What they really want to do is just moan and I seem to be the one moan at. The problem is, nothing changes is nothing changes. One of them takes on too much (think work, studying, MLM 🤦🏻‍♀️) then moans they’re overwhelmed!

I think it’s true that most people will help someone who needs it, but gets compassion fatigue when it’s just all the time, especially in the workplace. I try to leave my problems at the door. Some people bring them in and drag everyone down. It’s draining.

Misery likes company

Seems an apt phrase for this thread.

I suppose the amount of support people are willing to give person B will depend on how much support person B is willing to give to those around them. I used to work with, and became close to, a person B. Every week there was different a reason to explain why they couldn’t do the work they were being paid to do and there was never a time when they picked up the slack for someone else. Often, they made it even harder for the colleagues who were taking on the extra work, as they’d spend the day crying, complaining and drawing attention to themselves rather than being grateful to their colleagues who were killing themselves getting the work done. Similarly, knowing them personally, only their problems matter. Nobody else could be struggling as much as them, no one else can be having a hard time. I genuinely believe that they’re a good person with a kind heart, but they’re simply unable to recognise that other people need help too.

I know another person who needs a lot of support, they’ve suffered one misfortune after another and have had a number of extremely difficult years which has meant they’ve needed more support than they could give, however they will always do whatever they can to help others and make a genuine effort to show they care.

I’m my experience, people are much more willing to give support to the second person than to the first as the relationship is much more reciprocal, even if at times it’s unavoidably unequal.

I Have supported a few person B's in my life. Only one I still consider a friend and to me has some serious mitigating circumstances.
I can spot a person B a mile off and I will go out of my way to avoid them. If it is a work situation they get nothing from me, if they continually push their drama's my way they get told they are barking up the wrong tree expecting support from me!
If this makes me a heartless bitch then so be it, maybe strong people are strong because they don't absorb everyone else's drama.

YANBU

Most people will swerve people who's emotional dial is permanently switch to "take" because it is very wearing and there's never any return.

One of the most important lessons I've learnt over the past 50 years is that it's fine to have limits to protect your own mh and quality of life.

I am Person 1. I won't go into the challenges I have overcome, but let's just say they are incredibly rare. I rarely get any support except from my mum as I do not talk about my problems ( except here on MN). I have a lot of Person 2s in my life. Some have genuine problems, some are just drama queens. I have noticed that the ones who do not are constantly talking on social media about their problems, and they get a lot of support and comments like "You are so brave."

@JustGiveMeGin

I Have supported a few person B's in my life. Only one I still consider a friend and to me has some serious mitigating circumstances. I can spot a person B a mile off and I will go out of my way to avoid them. If it is a work situation they get nothing from me, if they continually push their drama's my way they get told they are barking up the wrong tree expecting support from me! If this makes me a heartless bitch then so be it, maybe strong people are strong because they don't absorb everyone else's drama.

I think that's stance of many people. It's self preservation rather than being a heartless bitch (i tell myself)

I think that friendships are generally a reciprocal thing, and I'd wonder if person B is offered less support because they are less able to support in return.

I have had to back out of helping a person B because there are so many stressors in my own life I can't take on their problems too. They have a team of friends round them. I feel guilty but it is a practical decision.

Well, I have a few Person B types in my life, and I do try bloody hard to help them. However, I realised years ago that they are actually beyond help. Nothing I do will lift them out of their unhappiness. I still try to help, but I do it because I love them and want to show that I care, rather than because I believe that it will actually make any difference. There is never any change or progress, regardless of what I do.

There is always the potential for someone who is very negative to drag others down, so I do put boundaries in place to protect myself. It is too draining otherwise. Consequently, I would not get overly invested in trying to help a permanently needy colleague or other casual acquaintance. They need to be ready to help themselves first.

Person A types are different. I'd bend over backwards to help a Person A type who is struggling, even if they're only a casual acquaintance, because I know that I can make a difference and that they will play their part in helping themselves. It's rewarding to know that you've helped someone and that it has made a difference to them.

I guess what I'm saying is that I only really have the emotional capacity to support a limited number of Person B types because it is exhausting and not very rewarding. That limited capacity is reserved to support close friends and family members who are like this, and it doesn't extend to colleagues. That doesn't mean that I don't care about their unhappiness or that I don't have compassion for their suffering, it just means that I need to protect my own mental health and can't afford to get dragged down by people on the periphery of my social circle.