To think that the sadder you are the less people want to help you

[Whereisalltherumgone]

Just an observation really.

Person 1: A “strong” person. Always happy (or seems to be) coping, wprking hard, surviver.
If person 1 looks a bit tired or emotional, multiple people ask if they are okay and if they need a hand.

Person 2: Somebody who has lower coping capacity,?frequently feels overwhelmed, asks for help on a semi-regular basis, quite easily moved to tears. If person 2 is looking stressed or emotional, it is not commented upon, no support offered.

This is what I see at my workplace. It’s common isn’t it? I suppose it’s the ‘boy who cried wolf’ problem, except person 2 really genuinely struggles, it’s just once people realise their offer of support may actually be taken up, or needed again, they don’t want to know.

Does this pattern sound familiar to others? AIBU?

I'm a glass half empty type, but I do try to be positive too around others . It's a balance isn't it? The really happy clappy positive people annoy me too though ; I find that really false , but I grin and bear them!

Just want to say I'm sorry you're going through this right now. However its not collegues responsibility to listen to your problems, rally around you, and cheer you up. Although that does sound nice. People have their own stuff going on and don't have the emotional capacity to do that for everyone at work. You should look into booking a weekly counsellor, perhaps through zoom. Someone qualified to listen and give advice. Offloading onto colleagues is not professional also brings morale down. I used to work with a guy who was always down and depressed. We ended up avoiding the shared part of the office and staff room, to avoid him. Nice guy, just made us feel low too. Sorry op, hope you get the help you need to get through this. As an aside have you tried changing how you talk with others? For example smiling and being cheerful, asking them how they are/how their days been? When they ask you, say its okay thanks and avoid talking about anything negative. You might find that they start interacting with you more. It might make you feel more positive too.

@thepeopleversuswork

Whereas chats with the negative person will never help, as they are always negative even when nothing bad's even happened to them.

That's the thing: its partly about how you feel the person is reacting to the negative things that happen. Shit things happen to everyone you won't have control over that but you do have some control over your mindset. When people see the world as a huge list of wrongs against them in makes you feel impotent and as if there's no point trying to help.

I'm not a believer in mindless "positivity" for its own sake. But I do think some resilience skills are likely to make people more likelly to want to support.

I agree with this. Everyone has bad days but the difference is one person uses internal methods to negotiate these while the other sees it as everyone elses issue to help them-external. They dont give any thought to whether others have the capacity, time or even want to help. There is zero shame in saying/ feeling that you are not the right person or dont want to. Thats why the whole "everyone, listen" is cheeky from Employers. I work with someone like this and now everyone avoids asking how he is as they simply cant cope with a 45 minute monologue about his problems.

I think this a lot about the mental health campaigns and self care stuff. It's usually aimed at people who are going through a temporary period of mental illness or difficulty, not at those who have a more serious long term condition. And the thing is if you've had good coping strategies and support system all your life, then being reminded of things like self care and to "ask for help" can be just what you need to get back on your feet. But for people who have been unwell for years, they don't have these support systems and coping strategies, they have to build them and learn them which is near enough impossible whilst in crisis. And some people are in regular mental health crisis, and despite asking for help for years don't get any. Those are the people who don't get supported informally or formally, they just get left in crisis level mental health distress and often never taught those copping strategies. That's why those things miss so many of the people who really need it. But I'm not sure the policy makers even know what to do with people who have been systematically failed by everyone who was there to support them all their lives. What do you do with that? Much easier to help the people who benefit from more quantifiable methods, or even better the self motivated ones who just need a pamphlet or a slogan.

If the mental health professionals can't help what is Becky at work going to do? Nothing. So instead she helps Sally who's husband just left her, and who's problems are relatively straightforward to solve and who's pain, whilst real and horrible, is also temporary and situational

@Whereisalltherumgone

Just an observation really.

Person 1: A “strong” person. Always happy (or seems to be) coping, wprking hard, surviver.
If person 1 looks a bit tired or emotional, multiple people ask if they are okay and if they need a hand.

Person 2: Somebody who has lower coping capacity,?frequently feels overwhelmed, asks for help on a semi-regular basis, quite easily moved to tears. If person 2 is looking stressed or emotional, it is not commented upon, no support offered.

This is what I see at my workplace. It’s common isn’t it? I suppose it’s the ‘boy who cried wolf’ problem, except person 2 really genuinely struggles, it’s just once people realise their offer of support may actually be taken up, or needed again, they don’t want to know.

Does this pattern sound familiar to others? AIBU?

Yes you're right and IME it's about people protecting themselves. These ultra needy people will latch onto you and suck you dry if you let them. I think most people subconsciously realise this and stay away.

I know I get impatient these days with anyone needing help who doesn't appear to also be helping themselves. Like when their first choice is to lean on someone else. I've got my share of problems (haven't we all?) but I only lean on others very temporarily and as a last resort. If a person continuously gives and gives and doesn't receive, they end up depleted.

I feel these ultra needy people have some form of illness, even if it's not an illness that fits any recognisable diagnostic criteria. Some sort of malaise of the soul, perhaps? And I feel they should help themselves by seeking help for their problems. If you get to know them, many, it seems to me, would benefit from getting medical problems managed properly or getting a diagnosis sorted out; or tackling their low confidence, people pleasing tendencies and lack of resilience with therapy; taking antidepressants or anxiety meds; changing their living circumstances such as moving out of a family home with domineering parents or leaving an abusive partner; changing jobs or reducing hours and being accepting of the reduced budget; as well as being proactive in taking up hobbies, getting involved in their communities and managing their time more effectively. But heaven forbid you suggest any of that because that's too much like hard work and all they want to do is moan They never or rarely take up any suggestions for solutions which are driven by them being proactive.

I find it very telling that when you don't allow them to lean on you very much, reducing your availability for being a listening ear or source of advice/money/practical help these people stop getting in touch and go find someone else to lean on. They're users. They don't choose to remain in touch for the sake of enjoying each others company and a distraction from their problems for a few hours. This is why I consider them emotional vampires because the only solution they will accept is someone to lean on endlessly.

For some reason I have seemed to attract them in life and I'm done with it now.

Yes that's familiar. Person B will trigger warning lights in most people that they might want a bottomless pit of support. Some people endlessly expect others to prop them up and it's all one way. A capable person who is flagging has track record of being responsible and helpful and equal so it is in the team's interest to support them to get back to their usual competent self. Whereas it's less in the team's interest to help B who will only want help again tomorrow and the next day and the next.

I think sometimes people are quite often mistaken at the type of person they think they are, and if other people were asked or were honest, they'd disagree with the 'type' that the person thinks they are themselves, because your perspective of yourself differs from the perspective other people have of you.
For example I have someone in my life who thinks of themselves as type A, a coper, always plodding along, always there for everyone else. In my perception, they're not, they rely heavily on other people (including me) to plod on and cope, yet accuse others of draining them if they have a problem or issue that they might need help over from time to time.
It's a repetitive pattern, and I hear quite often how good they are at putting on a face to the world but how they're broken themselves etc etc, I don't see that face, I see the broken person underneath repeatedly, and often think to myself I'd love to have their problems instead of my own because I could do something about that.
But could I? In reality? I don't know.
I know that person sees me as a drain on them, although they don't really know 'the half of it' and I do actively avoid sharing anything really, for fear of triggering the "Even the strongest people need a hug sometimes" cycle.
But then when I struggle and say, take time off work or say that I need some help, there's an almost accusatory element of you should have asked sooner, you're clearly not being proactive yourself when in fact, I have been, I've been to management, the GP, counselling etc, just haven't broadcast the fact and right now I need a shift swap, or a little time off for whatever reason. I haven't told them because I was coping up to the point I've got to where I need something.
"Well you never said!" No, no I didn't, because in the past I maybe have and then just them having that knowledge has led them to feel under pressure in some way, from themselves, to do something, to fix me, when all that's required is a day off or a shift swap, I'm not asking for psychological help, just one practical thing, and I have explained so that people understand that yes, I'm going through something pretty traumatic and that's why I need this bit of practical assistance, but that's all I need from them right now.

Some people offer to help to people like A because the act of help is more about them. It is Performance friendship. They enjoy and revel in the results, seeing and believing they have helped a person achieve.
Person B will often, perhaps always need help and they cannot be arsed and there is not enough of self recognition for them.

Yes, it's a sad fact of life that nearly everyone shies away from needy people, probably because they don't want to get involved in someone else's problems since they've got enough of their own to deal with. The older you get the more you realize you have to take responsibility for your own pain and worries, find your own guidance and answers, and sort them out for yourself.
Turning to others for help they won't or can't give you only makes you feel even more depressed. It's like that sinking feeling you get when someone asks you how you are and you make the mistake of not saying 'fine', and actually start telling them your troubles, and you see a look of horror come over their face!

Person B sounds needy so supporting them is an ongoing issue. Not everyone has the capacity for that.

@Leomum48. 100 percent right.
The sinking feeling, yep been there, felt that. It’s shit. I know now there are very very few people I can truly rely on.

In your post, I am Person 1 and a colleague person 2. I had a bit of a breakdown last year (because, you know, Covid) and it was down to my colleagues noticing that I was not quite right that prompted me to seek help. I could not have gotten through that period without my colleagues (and of course my family and friends) help and support. This however was probably only the second time my colleagues have supported me in about 13 years.

Colleague 2 has had a(nother) rough time over the last 6-8 months however this person is pretty much always in tears when things either don't go their way or they don't like how something is going. Very much woe is me. And to be honest its draining. They also won't accept any help offered, coming up with fairly flimsy excuses as to why the help offered won't suit. They are never going to get their way - particularly on one "issue" and they either need to find a way to work with/alongside the "issue" or find another job. Sorry to be harsh but if you offer constant help/advice and the person says no, no, no you basically think well bugger you then!

I'm not sure really. I'm pretty sure I'm person B, and I often struggle to find some one to talk to.

A funny thing happened to me the other day that kind of shed light on this for me.

I was at the school gate and I was so tired that I sat down on the tarmac in the playground to wait for DS. (long covid + pre-existing CFS + vaccine side effects)

A lady in a niqab (eyes just showing through a slit) came up to me and gave me a huge, kind, smile with her eyes, and said "sitting" which was clearly the best English she could manage.

Just in that moment I really felt loved and accepted. I thought that was lovely. It just goes to show that a very little bit of kindness can go a long way.

My mum had a person 2 friend. Moaned about everything to all her friends. Moan always ended with 'what would you do?' Each friend gave their solution which was never acted upon or even attempted. Week later, same problem unsolved, 'what would you do?' This becomes very tiring and boring in equal measure.

I am person 1 and nobody has ever offers me anything supportive, not that I need it but doesn't fit your theory.

it's hard to be Eeyore

@Whereisalltherumgone

Just an observation really.

Person 1: A “strong” person. Always happy (or seems to be) coping, wprking hard, surviver.
If person 1 looks a bit tired or emotional, multiple people ask if they are okay and if they need a hand.

Person 2: Somebody who has lower coping capacity,?frequently feels overwhelmed, asks for help on a semi-regular basis, quite easily moved to tears. If person 2 is looking stressed or emotional, it is not commented upon, no support offered.

This is what I see at my workplace. It’s common isn’t it? I suppose it’s the ‘boy who cried wolf’ problem, except person 2 really genuinely struggles, it’s just once people realise their offer of support may actually be taken up, or needed again, they don’t want to know.

Does this pattern sound familiar to others? AIBU?

With person 2, who has said they have 'lower coping capacity' compared to everyone else. Its does come across as a learned helplessness with no personal responsibility for how they are feeling or any effort to make any improvements. If that's how they are all the time, how are colleagues meant to know anything is different?

@AlfonsoTheMango

Person B sounds needy so supporting them is an ongoing issue. Not everyone has the capacity for that.

I think that no one actually has capacity for that unless they are a rescuer and then it becomes an unhealthy codependent relationship which always ends badly.

People often get exhausted by Person B and over time have less to give.

OP, with the best will in the world, your colleagues are also public facing and dealing with people's problems, working from home and dealing with all the problems of the pandemic (homeschooling, isolation, loneliness, stress etc). They probably don't have head space at all for a colleague's problems, especially if they're not going to get the same support back, whatever appearances may be everyone is struggling to some extent at the moment.

Tears to your manager on multiple occasions just isn't appropriate. That's not their role. It sounds like you have three options:

1. Come up with a sensible, proactive plan for how you can do your job. This is tricky because the plan needs to make sure you're not simply transferring the difficult parts of your job or a chunk of your workload to a colleague.

1. Speak to your GP about your mental health and hope a general improvement helps at work.

1. Accept that the career change hasn't worked out and look for something else. No shame in that!

I hope I've phrased this sensitively, and that the thread hasn't moved on, I've typed this in drips and drabs in the playground!

It more a cases of 'using and abusing' than 'boy who cried wolf'.

People get fatigued by constantly having to drag the weight of someone else who is never in a position to stand on their own too feet or return the favor... its a case of always taking and never giving back.

I mean if someones incapable of coping/functioning without constantly asking for help then they really need a carer and co-workers/aquantences/friends etc... arent that, they have their own lives and things to deal with.

Second person seems like they need a lot of help/advice or someone to talk to about issues that bother them every day. Person 1 however has one issue that is likely a short term, easily coped with issue.

I wouldn't speak to person 2 because I'd be worried they'd dump everything that's making them feel down on me. I'd like to be able to support them but I wouldn't sacrifice my health and wellbeing to do so- especially if they're the type that complains about their situation but doesn't change anything about it.

Also if person 1 is generally upbeat they'll likely be easier to talk to and might cope well with distraction/humour.

some people are in regular mental health crisis, and despite asking for help for years don't get any. Those are the people who don't get supported informally or formally, they just get left in crisis level mental health distress and often never taught those copping strategies.

This is true and this is one of the saddest aspects of clinical depression. People going through a temporary crisis due to an external trigger such as a bereavement or marriage breakdown but who are basically emotionally robust will be better at attracting support than people who are in a more or less permanent state of crisis.

Because the awful reality of the situation is that its very hard to support people who are perpetually depressed: its very draining and depressing and most people don't have the mental wherewithal to give that much to someone who appears not to be able to support themselves at all. Frankly, the few people who do often have an agenda or want to create an unhealthy codependency so they are not the ideal people to be doing the support.

I don't know what the solution is: I think better mental health awareness and the breaking down of the stigma will help somewhat. But I do also think to some extent the onus is on the individual affected. Beyond a certain point it isn't reasonable to expect other people to constantly carry you emotionally and there is a responsibility to seek a professional support network if you just can't cope with life. It's harsh, but very few people can provide that kind of support.

I know someone like person 2. She has a victim complex without actually being much of a victim. The crying and emotional neediness feel extremely manipulative, so I absolutely do what you have observed and pretend not to recognize when she loudly hints that she needs/wants/deserves support. Her life difficulties are no different to the rest of ours, she just can’t seem to deal with them and she is a black hole of ‘I need you to feel sorry for me and do things for me’. I feel used, manipulated, and angry at the expectation that she somehow deserves special coddling from people who are dealing with similar difficulties in their own lives. She is probably depressed, and I know I should have more sympathy, but I just none left to give. She needs professional support for that; someone who has professional boundaries and charges by the hour. Whenever I give an inch, she takes a mile. I have come to the conclusion that she probably just needs fresh meat every few months as the rest of us are worn out and have nothing left to offer her.

OP, it sounds like you'd be better to look to out-of-work relationships and/or counselling for the support you need. If you have close relationships with colleagues that means they can support you in this way, that's great but most work colleagues keep things fairly professional/superficial ime.