To think most women want to get married?

[RosieGuacamosie]

Idle and inconsequential conversation with a female (very feminist if that’s relevant) friend where I said that I think most women want to get married (especially when children are involved), be it for financial/romantic/other reasons.

She disagrees and pointed out 45% of babies are born outside marriage these days and that women are just as likely to be the high earner and are therefore disincentivized to marry. Also pointed out that the majority of the population have limited assets, so even if there’s as divorce as opposed to a separation, the wife still ends up with the square root of fuck all.

No axe to grind as I am neither married nor have children

Yabu - most women aren’t bothered
Yanbu - the majority of women still want to marry

The number of men who have kids and show no commitment at all.

I agree. That’s why I said the good ones see children as the ultimate commitment. There’s loads of men who fuck women, get them pregnant and are shit fathers. The good ones see children as a life time commitment, there’s few of them around. Women shouldn’t settle for these losers.

I was vehemently against ever getting married or having children...... until I met DH

@CandyLeBonBon

"I've seen a few women get a bit overwhelmed with planning a wedding but I've never known a woman to marry a man she knew she didn't love because she wanted "the day". Most women seem to be terrified of being seen that way"

I've seen quite a few who felt like they 'should' go ahead with the day because they felt trapped by the occasion only to separate weeks later (sometimes less). It's not about 'wanting the day' so much as not knowing how to stop the juggernaut.

Well that's a very different thing to "I just want a special day".

And I haven't seen anything to suggest it affects women more than men...

@SupermanInk

The number of men who have kids and show no commitment at all.

I agree. That’s why I said the good ones see children as the ultimate commitment. There’s loads of men who fuck women, get them pregnant and are shit fathers. The good ones see children as a life time commitment, there’s few of them around. Women shouldn’t settle for these losers.

Why would a good father not ensure that he has financially protected his children's mother, especially if she's financially vulnerable because she's raising his kids?

Good men protect their families. When it's that easy to be a shit father, you need to do more than simply become one to be a good one.

"We don't need to marry, darling, the children are the commitment"...we see the pitfalls of that on here every day.

Having children doesn't affect a man's body ever and it rarely affects his life to the same degree.

I had my son before we got married and we're actually both from Christian families so it was probably a surprise to some. It was also a planned baby so we just chose to do that first. Marriage for me is a spiritual thing. But I think deep down a lot of women, and men too, would enjoy the prospect of a wedding and marriage. It's a celebration of love and part of life.

However, I also get people's reasons for not marrying too. Committing to another person for life doesn't have to mean marriage. Even though I am married, I've still kept my surname and I like it that way. That's me and who I am. My identity. So although I love the spiritual, romantic, committed side of marriage, I dislike the old fashioned traditions like women changing their surnames.

@MrsJuliaGulia

Not read the full thread I think most middle class women do. For security if nothing else. I think poorer women don’t really care, after all the social welfare system is always going to prop them up. Whereas social welfare isn't really a part of life or the subconscious list of options when thinking about security for middle classes. And therefore, security comes with marriage. I don’t know anyone who isn’t married; without exception everyone I know had a well paid job, married someone who also had a well paid job, had a couple of children and gave up work or reduced their hours. None of them would have done anything like that without the security of marriage.

This concerns me. I am a middle class woman, and also a higher earner than DP (significantly so - we couldn’t afford to live together without my income). We’ve never relied on benefits, and marriage isn’t a priority (why would it be...I don’t need the security of his income, I only need my job).

If I had a baby now, we’d be significantly worse off financially to the point of dropping a social class (we would be reliant on benefits for at least a few months - I can see my career too taking a significant hit).

I frequently say to DP that I wish he could be the one giving birth to the kids as it is, it sounds like I’d be at a severe disadvantage to get married to someone and/or have kids with them unless they were earning more than me.

@RamItBunty

I really urge women to familiarise themselves with the legalities of cohabitation There’s no such thing as common law wife. It has no legal basis Make sure you’re well informed and make wills . Sort out tenants in common and a will Register with GP as each other NOK Get nominated as the beneficiary of partner pensio n

The part about a will is so, so important. People die unexpectedly every day and people can truly show a completely unexpected side to themselves if they think there's money up for grabs.

I absolutely agree after a death all social niceties go out window
Being unmarried one can be cruelly consigned as the just the girlfriend
Some families close rank and don’t include a partner/gf in finances etc after a death

I don't think every woman wants to get married;it's a personal choice.People can have fulfilling relationships without a marriage certificate.

Myself and DH come from families where nearly all couples are married and have married in their 20's and are still together.

Myself and DH modelled that example and are still married 17 years later but not everyone has that example of marriage in front of them and will feel differently.

I have 2 DD's and if they don't want to get married when they are older then it's their choice.

@nomorecrumbs I get this too. Why do people presume that women are going to likely be earning less than men and need marriage for financial security. It's 2021!!!
I'm a higher earner than my dh and I bought our house before I met him. He jokingly calls me the gold digger!

I didn’t. But someone asked and I thought, ‘why not?’ I didn’t want kids either. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I think most women still do, but not at any cost, we are pickier now!

When I think of the toll pregnancy and childbirth take on a woman's body, and how parenthood is likely to affect her life vs how it's likely to affect the father's, I truly laugh at the idea that it's a sign of the MAN'S commitment.

Good men protect their families. They don't simply make them.

[quote mag2305]@nomorecrumbs I get this too. Why do people presume that women are going to likely be earning less than men and need marriage for financial security. It's 2021!!!
I'm a higher earner than my dh and I bought our house before I met him. He jokingly calls me the gold digger![/quote]
Because statistically, that is still most likely to be the case. The gap has reduced considerably but it hasn't closed.

I think most women might want to but they may not be sure why.

I firmly belief marriage is a patriarchal construct that benefits men more than women.

Most women I know by the time they have hit 50 are fed up of marriage and those that stay do so for the financial benefit. Hardly romantic.

I have never wanted to get married. I have always been the higher earner in my relationship plus we had a baby outside marriage, not sure if this is relevant somehow? But marriage is something I never envisaged or dreamt about even as a child.

@Waferbiscuit

I think most women might want to but they may not be sure why.

I firmly belief marriage is a patriarchal construct that benefits men more than women.

Most women I know by the time they have hit 50 are fed up of marriage and those that stay do so for the financial benefit. Hardly romantic.

If they're staying for the financial benefit, does that not suggest they are benefiting more than men?

Marriage is a legal contract. It's as romantic as you make it. Unmarried couples often say they are more in love than married ones and they may well be right, but marriage is not a contract of love.

Sure many women financially benefit from marriage but god that's depressing if that's their motivation.

I would suggest however that men benefit more from marriage overall due to the positive impact of having a wife on their domestic life and wellbeing. I'm sure studies have been done I'm just too lazy to seek them out.

Personally It just feels to me like marriage is a contract to use each other. I'm certainly not the first person to suggest this.

All those saying "But I'm the higher earner!"

You need a will too, to protect your partner in the event of your death.

@Waferbiscuit

Sure many women financially benefit from marriage but god that's depressing if that's their motivation.

I would suggest however that men benefit more from marriage overall due to the positive impact of having a wife on their domestic life and wellbeing. I'm sure studies have been done I'm just too lazy to seek them out.

Personally It just feels to me like marriage is a contract to use each other. I'm certainly not the first person to suggest this.

It's a contract, yes. You can "use" people with it but I find people can use sex and money for that purpose anyway if they want to.

I see it as my husband and I wanting to take care of each other and join our finances to that end. I wouldn't have been happy to have his child if he wasn't prepared to protect me financially after all I was going to go through and the earning hit I would take. I earn less but brought more assets to the marriage. I want to protect him too. I wanted to legalise our relationship.

I do wonder, though, when I hear about these messy and crippling divorces, if maybe marriage should be harder and divorce should be easier.

Personally It just feels to me like marriage is a contract to use each other. I'm certainly not the first person to suggest this.

I agree with this, basically. It's had centuries of religious justification and romantic sugar-coating but essentially that's what it boils down to.

And I think you're right that while women certainly benefit from the insurance policy of marriage and some women do very well out of it, men benefit more overall, both financially (unless they get taken to the cleaners) and in terms of the domestic and childcaring responsibilities which they get to avoid and the fringe benefits (comfort, sex). It frustrates me hugely that women still crave this institution which fundamentally, beyond giving them insurance during their childbearing years, does nothing for them.

I have quite mixed feelings when people point out how important it is to be married before you have children on here. From a tactical point of view they are usually right but it depresses me that that has to be so. As women become more financially self-sufficient and men become more willing to help domestically you would hope that marriage would lose its appeal and something more progressive could replace it.

But it does have a lot of appeal to a lot of people, still. And no doubt will for years to come.

Hell no.

I would never have survived life without marriage. Met my dp.at 17 he19.Married at 21 and 23. Small house bigger house massive house.
Worked really hard soulmates. After 7 yrs of infertility we adopted a son.
Another 2 years later. Best thing we ever done. 3 dgc debts paid and retirement looming
We stuck together thru thick and thin would not have had it any other way. We held fast and still love each other every day

@SupermanInk

I do think most women want a sign of commitment from their life partner.

Good men see having children as the ultimate commitment to their partner, in my experience.

Is this for real? It takes seconds for a man to conceive a child with a woman.

Is this for real? It takes seconds for a man to conceive a child with a woman.

Yes. The good men I know choose the mothers of their kids very carefully, as women should. They take fatherhood very seriously.