AIBU to expect female only nurses on a gynae ward?

[PanamaPattie]

My vulnerable elderly aunt has recently had an hysterectomy for ovarian cancer. During a telephone call, she became very upset because she had her catheter taken out and was helped to shower by a male nurse. She didn't feel that she could complain as she was afraid of repercussions.

Am I being unreasonable to expect female only care on a gynae ward - considering the intimate and invasive nature of care?

@mam0918

This is one of the few jobs that is still highly sex discriminative - imagine you train for years then someone complaining against you when you helped them just because you have a 'y' chromosome.

A medical proffesional is a medical proffesional, they arent perverts getting of on seeing sick peoples vaginas. They trained hard and work hard to care for the vunerable thats all and their genitals have no part of that.

I was saved by a male doctor when I had a uterus heamorrage, I was stiched by a male doctor after having a terrible tear during child birth, my IVF retrieval and transfer where done by two male doctors and have had smears done by male gynocologists.

Theres absoloutly nothing wrong with it, they are highly skilled profesionals who deserve respect.

I would not be comfortable with a male dr in an intimate or gynae situation and have requested female drs before, don’t see how this equates to not giving male drs the ‘respect’ they ‘deserve’

The power dynamic that exists between men and women means you are always going to have a good number of women who won’t be comfortable with a male dr in certain situations, many will find it uncomfortable or degrading or even downright distressing. An estimated 1 in 5 women have been raped or sexually assaulted (although some argue this figure is a lot higher) and the overwhelming majority of the time the perpetrator is male. And even out of the rest of us who have no history of sexual abuse, practically every single woman has had multiple uncomfortable experiences with men throughout their lifetime (eg harassment, creepy behaviour) and many of us have learned to be wary of strange men. That dynamic just doesn’t exist with a female doctor and male patient

Then of course some women just find it uncomfortable and undignified anyway. Any male doctor with even a shred of decency would understand this and not resent women for preferring a female HCP.

One thing I don't think has been mentioned yet - some male patients will feel far more comfortable receiving care from female staff because they have also survived rape or abuse and, just as for female survivors, the perpetrator is overwhelmingly likely to have been male.

YANBU

Many many women have suffered some form of sexual trauma. Therefore the question regarding intimate care should be asked on admission. It isn’t a question of whether a woman is ‘accepting’. Steps should be taken to ensure women are not re traumatised or made to feel that they have to receive intimate care from a man.

There was a discussion on loose women recently about women not going for their smear test. They just talked about how hcp’s are ‘used to it’ and that women mustn’t be embarrassed. The issue of women staying away due to sexual trauma wasn’t even raised. It was pathetic.

Whether or not other women are able to ‘see the problem’ is also irrelevant and I am not surprised that this woman felt unable to speak up given some of the responses on here. I don’t think it is at all unreasonable to expect all female staff on a gynae ward and I am automatically suspicious of any man who actively seeks to work on one or specialise in that form of healthcare.

OP I think it’s concerning that your Aunt was afraid of repercussions. Did she say anymore about that?

Given 80% of nurses in the U.K. are women, and some specialities attract higher numbers of male nurses (psychiatry and emergency medicine have higher proportion of men), coupled with roughly equal population split, it’s not difficult to see that providing female staff to provide intimate care for women who want is a matter of attitude and a desire to put the needs of the patients first.

I don’t think there’s a precedent, but I suspect if tested, gynaecology nursing could be considered a situation where it was reasonable to suggest being a woman was a GOQ.

It can never be about the member of staffs feelings; they are not the one feeling exposed and vulnerable. Patient comfort and dignity trumps perceived professional slight every time.

It can never be about the member of staffs feelings; they are not the one feeling exposed and vulnerable. Patient comfort and dignity trumps perceived professional slight every time.

This 100%

On rare occasions patient comfort and dignity go out the window in favour of preservation of life. That's not the case here, but it has to happen in some circumstances

There is a precedent - breast screening clinics.

@LangClegsInSpace

There is a precedent - breast screening clinics.

Of course, your right. Mammographers are women. I’m surprised some trust’s haven’t moved to all female nurse staffing for gynae wards. I think most are in practice, but not necessarily by design.

I think the NHS pays lip service to giving a toss.
I think the workforce probably do give a toss but are (or feel) powerless to effect change.

The Society of Radiographers tried to get the TUC to support a campaign to allow men to conduct mammographies.

Yanbu. Male nurses shouldn't be doing intimate procedures on women unless they have been given consent, they all know this as it is part of the training. Your aunt, or you, should put in a complaint.

YABU.

It's completely unrealistic and unfair to expect all nurses on a gynae ward to be female.

She can of course request a female nurse if that's what she wants to do. I'm sure plenty have done so in the past and the ward will be as accommodating as they can.

Saying a person shouldn't be working in a particular place because of their gender is literal sexism.

Two weeks ago my mum was admitted after having a seizure that was related to heart problems, she spent part of the first night on coronary care & then was moved to a different ward where to her horror men & women were all in the same room, not even separate bays, she had to use a commode when there was a male patient at the other side of the curtain. She is 83, was frightened & shocked that patients were mixed, particularly when several of the men had dementia & were constantly taking their clothes off & trying to escape from the ward. Thankfully she was only in 48 hours but I have made a complaint to PALS, in this day & age this shouldn't be happening.

Saying a person shouldn't be working in a particular place because of their gender is literal sexism.

*biological sex

What difference does it make? A nurse is a nurse. It's a medical procedure not a sex act.

It should always be that a same sex practitioner is available whenever possible, in any setting.

However I don’t really understand what you mean when you ask why male nurses would specialize in gynae nursing?

Are you equally puzzled by male obstetricians?

What is it that you’re trying to imply?

What reason would there be other than that is their career specialization?

@garlictwist

What difference does it make? A nurse is a nurse. It's a medical procedure not a sex act.

Is having a shower a medical procedure?

I think that patients should be asked when it's intimate care. And I also think they aren't on purpose tbh.

It's difficult to speak up when you're in the midst of being treated. Much better patient care would be to ask prior to the situation arising.

YABVU. Patients should absolutely be able to request a same sex nurse to help them with anything intimate. This does not just apply to gynea wards - you haven't mentioned anything specific to that area. Showering and catheters will be happening throughout the hospital. The nurse was equally qualified to any other nurse so why shouldn't he work there. It sounds more like your aunt needs help to advocate for what she wants rather than suggesting the nurse should be denied working there at all especially if what has upset your aunt isn't even related to gynea specifically.

I assume he introduced himself and said something like ‘is it okay if I remove your catheter?’ To which she then consented?

If not then this is an issue of not gaining consent, which is of course wrong.

If your aunt did provide consent then how was this male HCP to know that she actually didn’t want him to?

It is perfectly reasonable to prefer female nurses and many people request this, it is not a problem. But YABVU to think that no male staff should work on a gynaecology ward and actually a bit naive to not have considered this if it was going to be an issue.

I think all settings should apply Trauma Informed Care and consider that some people ( not just women) could have a history of sexual trauma.
If this is considered then the most basic way to meet this is to ask if someone is comfortable with hands on intimate health interventions by a male or female nurse.

I don't think that this should be beyond possible

Being examined by a male doctor with chaperone, is very different to being completely naked and alone with a male nurse or carer, who is providing intimate care. There is a huge lack of compassion in some of these responses. The male nurses I have worked with have always naturally understood these concerns and where possible avoided putting women in this situation. Having male nurses on a completely female ward, which guarantees lots of intimate care and often distress relating to the effect of disease and surgical procedures upon what are considered intimate and also sometimes visible areas, removes that choice for both nurse and patient. Patient dignity trumps the rights of a male nurse's career choice. There are many more female carers and nurses than male, this situation can be avoided.