To feel like looking 'average' these days is bloody hard work?

[JustGiveMeGin]

Disclaimer: I had a similar thread in style and beauty when I wasn't feeling my best. I have definitely made peace with how I look and this is NOT a woe is me thread 🤣
To even look average I have to dye the greys out of my hair, have my eyelashes and eyebrows tinted (did I mention greys?) Remove hair from underarms, legs, bikini area. Spray tan couple of times a week, moisturise after every shower (daily). Wash, conditon and blow dry hair daily. Anti wrinkle face cream twice daily after cleansing. That's just the basics....I can and do go out without makeup bit I feel better with: cc cream, face powder, bronzer, blusher, eyebrow pencil, mascara and lipstick.
To me I feel like I should look like a fucking goddess after all that effort but sadly I still sit in the firmly average camp!
Does anyone get what I mean or have I finally gone off my rocker for good?

@grasstreeleaf

You can still be well turned out and beautiful without putting extras on your face.

You can be but society still judges.

So people feel judged for having acne, hyperpigmentation, being pale, being dark, having freckles, being rosy cheeked, having thread veins, having grey hair, having dark circles, having wrinkles, facial hair, narrow lips, wide lips, big eyes, uneven lips, small eyes, hooded eyes, protruding eyes etc etc

Make up changes how a person looks so they can conceal features they don't like personally or they feel judged for and stared at for.

Until we live in a society that doesn't judge other people on their appearance then people will seek to change their appearance. It's unpleasant feeling judged.

Yes of course. But you can also make that change yourself. And stop believing what the media tells us and decide that enough is enough and learn to love yourself. Or just not give a fuck what other people think about your freckles, big ears, ginger hair, no eyebrows, big hips, blackhead nose, slightly wonky front tooth and ugly toes... Those are my "ugly" traits.

And then there is the marketing which manipulates our need to fit in by offering a product to solve an new invented insecurity. I mean I never really looked at my brows beyond plucking where they joined in the middle and went over my eyelids until relatively recently. I thought hyperpigmentation was just freckles. A hooded eye shape was just the shape of your eyes unless it was actually overhanging and causing vision issues...

And stop believing what the media tells us and decide that enough is enough and learn to love yourself

I do love myself, I think I'm pretty good looking all things considered! Thankfully my family appreciate me too. But it's not always that easy if the people around you continually make comments or you participate in a lot of social media.

And sod it, I like positive attention so I will make a real effort with my appearance from time to time!

@grasstreeleaf

And then there is the marketing which manipulates our need to fit in by offering a product to solve an new invented insecurity. I mean I never really looked at my brows beyond plucking where they joined in the middle and went over my eyelids until relatively recently. I thought hyperpigmentation was just freckles. A hooded eye shape was just the shape of your eyes unless it was actually overhanging and causing vision issues...

That's why I never buy into all this crap!

In America a third of all hospitalisations are due to medication side effects!

Just crap on top of crap. And the cycle goes on and on.

@grasstreeleaf

And sod it, I like positive attention so I will make a real effort with my appearance from time to time!

Do people really feel like they need to make a "real effort" in order to get positive attention?

@Kanaloa

Why do people keep bringing up male hygiene? Why is the standard for men have a shower and brush your teeth and the standard for women is shower, wash and style hair, shave entire body, tan, makeup, Botox, fillers, eyebrow tinting, eyelash extensions, manicure, pedicure etc etc?

If people want to do this, totally fine. The expectation that women look ‘rough’ or bad without it, or that a woman not doing all this is akin to a man not showering is shocking.

the standard for women is shower, wash and style hair, shave entire body, tan, makeup, Botox, fillers, eyebrow tinting, eyelash extensions, manicure, pedicure etc etc?

Is that "the standard" according to pps here? Holy banana, that's me well outside those standards, then. Do I give a fiddler's fart? Nope.

Brush teeth, shower, dry hair, and moisturiser as needed. Clothes have to be comfy, and appropriate for whatever I'm doing. So jeans or shorts and t-shirt, with waterproofs over when I'm walking the dog in the rain.

There are some very strong messages in the the marketing industry, mostly aimed at women. (Some pretty awful ones aimed at the male of the species, too). Learning to ignore those messages (if you don't look like we say you should, you're failing/not doing it right...) is very liberating.

Learn to love yourself, OP. No one needs to be a clone of someone else (which is what those marketing messages tend to be aiming at).

You can be but society still judges

But we're that society! It's made up of us! And until more people say fuck it society won't change because it's you.

Do people really feel like they need to make a "real effort" in order to get positive attention?

Effort of thought, not necessarily grooming effort. So if I'm running I don't want to look particularly 'dolled up' I want to look like a serious runner, like I mean business. Technical gear, fresh faced, hair tied back and fantastic running technique helps too! If I'm going out to a glamorous bar I might want to look polished with a fashionable outfit and flattering makeup. If I'm going to see a rock band the look would be entirely different again. Chameleon me!

And until more people say fuck it society won't change because it's you.

Yes, but in the meantime I'm not beyond using my appearance to manipulate people's perceptions of me when I choose to.

I do love myself, I think I'm pretty good looking all things considered!

What a shame your self love is based on how good looking you think you are. Do you think everyone else in your life bases their love of you on your looks?

Thumbs up to BertramLacey 👍🏽

The expectations of women are just ridiculous.

Yes, except exactly who is expecting it of us? I wear make-up every day, because I've got a crappy complexion and I don't like the look of myself without it. But nobody else is 'expecting' me to wear it. I have no idea if they'd even notice if I didn't tbh. And nobody would say anything if they did notice. I shave legs and underarms a couple of times a week, and do nothing else on the OP's list.

I think this feeling of expectation is mostly about our own habit of comparing ourselves with others (irl and on social media), rather than from actual expectations placed on us by others. What's that quotation... something like "People wouldn't worry so much about what others think of them if they realised how rarely they actually do."

@grasstreeleaf

And sod it, I like positive attention so I will make a real effort with my appearance from time to time!

Well I get loads of positive attention just being me without all that shite.

I guess I prefer to attract people of character.

@grasstreeleaf

And until more people say fuck it society won't change because it's you.

Yes, but in the meantime I'm not beyond using my appearance to manipulate people's perceptions of me when I choose to.

When does the meantime end?

What a shame your self love is based on how good looking you think you are. Do you think everyone else in your life bases their love of you on your looks?

It's really not. But my appearance is part of me and I have observed being treated very differently depending on how I present myself. Not so much by family but even them a little bit. Aesthetics is deeply routed in our subconscious somehow.

Literally don't care about any of that!

The only thing I refuse to do is go out in PJ'S and without brushing my teeth or hair but I'm far too lazy to have a proper make up/styling regime in the morning.

If people don't like my face it's their problem,not mine.

I guess I prefer to attract people of character.

Everyone has character, I find. Good points and bad points.

That’s hilarious!!!!!! You seriously have time for all that? As long as I don’t smell I’m happy 🤣🤣 I can’t remember the last time I painted my nails. Good luck to you, I don’t know how you do it. Between a full time job and a toddler is barely have time to shower. And I couldn’t care less about keeping up appearances

Well that's the question isn't it

How much is innate in our subconscious and how much do we as a society nurture those judgements snd requirements

Looking healthy & clean being attractive I can see as fundamental and hardwired..

Having shaved legs and a tan is def societal , with different cultures having different ideas of what looks good there

In other words the more people confirm to those rules the more those rules become embedded and people think it's necessary and make judgments based on how well people conform to those rules

Sorry, I meant to her message of people being less crap to others for how they look. Not for the heartbreak of her step-daughter.
My stepdaughter is very pale with ginger hair. Her mother cannot leave the house without putting make up on. I say each to their own, but that I find faces lovely with their own features in my daily life, and then some face paint for parties.
Steppdaughter itches from make up, so has gradually lessened the amount, until now she does not wear any (her own choice entirely). I think she looks lovely. She has fended off a fair few comments, but sees that for what nonsense it is.

But that also means you will be affected by your personal society

A load of comfortable mums will have a different set of norms to a loaf of struggling, trying to make it youngsters and the super rich just do whatever they like as societal approval is irrelevant

How much is innate in our subconscious and how much do we as a society nurture those judgements snd requirements

Interesting when you look at animal social groupings. Birds which like collecting high status objects to use in display or give gifts to mates. Chimps in captivity being given hats and clothes showing interest in dressing up.

I would still wear make up and tan even if I was on a desert island as I like the way look with it on.

I find that very hard to believe, if there was nobody there to see you, or for you to compare yourself with.
If you lived in a society where tanned skin was frowned upon, you wouldn't be having any fake or real tan. You'd be proud of your white skin.
And if you lived in a society where only men wore make up, and it was frowned upon on women, I very much doubt you'd be wearing any.
And you'd proclaim that is how you liked it, your choice, and your identity.

And non conformity can even be a form of conformity in that people want to appear above putting importance on superficial things....