Aibu to think most people don't smack their children

[sqirrelfriends]

So I just read a daily mail article (I know it's trash, please don't judge me) that's saying that experts are calling for smacking to be banned in England.

The comments section really surprised me, I don't know anyone who smacks their kids but it's overflowing with people saying that its the only way to control children and that half the prison population are there because they weren't smacked. Anyone saying that its wrong to physically punish a child is downvoted into oblivion.

Am I wrong to think this should have been illegal a long time ago? It's just seems wrong to be and my understanding was that kids who have been hit are more likely to be violent themselves.

@MillionBells exactly so as you've described that's a very different situation. It just shows that the smacking spectrum is very broad. Not black and white.

@mag2305

Lots of people will dismiss this as they will think it's OK and do it themselves, but I also think some non physical discipline can be very bad in a different way. I don't agree with naughty steps (I actually hate the word naughty being used) and cringe when parents talk about naughty steps, swearing at children, shaming, humiliating, grounding in bedrooms... Lots of these thing cause trauma too.

And none of that makes smacking any better.

The current guidance isn't "naughty step" anyway. It's "time out" or "thinking chair". The word "naughty" is discouraged and phrases like "those are unkind words" are used instead. And even all that is used in conjunction with techniques such as positive reinforcement and, of course, modelling the behaviours you want to teach. When a child is praised for doing well, very often all you need to do is not praise if they need correction.

[quote mag2305]@MillionBells exactly so as you've described that's a very different situation. It just shows that the smacking spectrum is very broad. Not black and white.[/quote]
Why are you so anxious to mitigate and justify hitting children under any circumstances when it is never, ever necessary or the best possible option?

It's an independently poor parenting technique.

Hitters and hitting apologists always want to look at this as if hitting is some sort of separate appendage that you just plug on to the rest of your parenting with no holistic connection. Model the behaviours you want, use positive reinforcement, learn de-escalation techniques and you're much less likely to reach a point where everyone's so wound up that hitting is becoming likely. Your parenting shouldn't be a bundle of actions in silos. It's holistic and everything works off everything else. Hitting should have no place.

@DrSbaitso why are you so anxious to impress your opinion so much?! If you read what I said, this isn't about myself as a parent. I don't do smacking or agree with it. However, looking back at previous generations, lots of our parents, will have smacked. What I'm saying is, do we tar them all with the same brush?!
I'm guessing by what you've said, that you think we should.

But a parent who smacked there child once or twice in the 70s, 80s, or whatever for doing something dangerous isn't quite the same as a parent who may have slammed their child's head against the wall multiple times and made that a frequent punishment. Neither is right, I'm not saying it is. BUT there is a difference. It's not black and white.

Now that studies since the 60s have shown the negative affects of smacking and that it doesn't have a positive affect on behaviour long term and it's no longer the norm and illegal in many countries I don't think the "occasional smacking in the context of otherwise good parenting" is excusable as it was in the past. We know now that it's perfectly possible to set boundaries with no smacking. I've never smacked mine and they're teenagers. I don't think today's children will excuse it as readily and rightly so.

[quote mag2305]@DrSbaitso why are you so anxious to impress your opinion so much?! If you read what I said, this isn't about myself as a parent. I don't do smacking or agree with it. However, looking back at previous generations, lots of our parents, will have smacked. What I'm saying is, do we tar them all with the same brush?!
I'm guessing by what you've said, that you think we should.

But a parent who smacked there child once or twice in the 70s, 80s, or whatever for doing something dangerous isn't quite the same as a parent who may have slammed their child's head against the wall multiple times and made that a frequent punishment. Neither is right, I'm not saying it is. BUT there is a difference. It's not black and white.[/quote]
I'm anxious to impress my opinion because I think it is very important to use better parenting techniques than hitting children. What's your excuse?

You are minimising the issue and deflecting. Smacking absolutely is black and white in that it is always a failure of parenting and never the best available option. Whether that is offset enough by being a brilliant parent elsewhere is not the point, though you probably don't realise how often it escalates when parents never learn self control. There are no circumstances when it was right to hit your child. Not even if you were really wound up, which most likely happened in the first place because you, the adult, didn't de-escalate sooner.

You may not be damaged by it but many children are and it is not a risk worth taking.

If you had read my posts (rather than "guessing"), you would see clearly that I see a great deal of difference in those parents who look back and see better options that they would use now, and those who still think they were right, or at least not wrong, because the small child "drove them to it" or whatever.

I've just asked DS1 if he thought I should've smacked him more or less or was it about the right amount.

he said it was the right amount because look how well he turned out but I should definitely smack the younger ones more. a lot more.
🤣

@DrSbaitso I have just read back through your posts and I see that you've personally experienced some horrible parenting in your childhood so I do now understand a bit more about where you're coming from now.

I mean, fgs. How shit must your parenting be if your defence is "Well at least I'm not slamming a child's head into a wall repeatedly" (yeah, bet that parent never smacked) or "well at least my kids haven't been removed from me"? That's the bar?

Smacking is bad parenting. Always. And it's more important to reinforce the fact that it's bad parenting, and offer alternatives, than it is to be all comforting about it and offer narratives and irrelevant deflections designed to detract from the fact that it's always a failure of parenting.

I don’t hold it against my DM that she smacked us when we were growing up, and didn’t protect us from our F despite being aware that he smacked us too hard (didn’t know his own strength etc). It was commonplace then (70s and 80s) and she now acknowledges that it was wrong.

That doesn’t mean that I will pretend that the smacking played an important part in neither of my siblings nor I telling her what else our F was doing to us. We were afraid and had no reason to believe that she would take our side against him.

Often it's not until we have our own children that we're able to properly view the parenting we received. Kids who think it's OK that they were smacked now might feel differently when they are looking at their own kids and thinking "I could never treat them like that"

[quote mag2305]@DrSbaitso I have just read back through your posts and I see that you've personally experienced some horrible parenting in your childhood so I do now understand a bit more about where you're coming from now.[/quote]
No you don't, because you are now using my abuse to patronise and invalidate me in your attempt to mitigate smacking.

I've said that even before it escalated in my teens (why wouldn't it, when hitting was acceptable?), it was damaging. Even when it was well within the realm of what was acceptable. Smacking is harmful, potentially very much so. The fact that it escalated as I grew older was a very common and completely unsurprising result of using violence as a means of resolution for parents. It may not always happen but it's a strong risk and another reason why we should focus on why it needs to stop.

It’s been banned for years in New Zealand- I’ve never seen anyone doing it in public, or saying they would - but when the Law came in all these people , Evangelical types I think, marched in protest. Imagine feeling that strongly. Once I went to the home of an English mum who’d just emigrated here that and heard her say” stop that or you’ll get a smacked bottom” and I remember being shocked that I hadn’t heard that since I was living in England .

If the only defence you can think of for smacking kids is ‘it’s not the same as slamming their head repeatedly into the wall’ then that is piss poor. What next, oh yes I ran over that man in my car but I didn’t run over him in a tractor.

Other people doing worse doesn’t make inappropriate actions better.

Also, it’s my experience having had an awful childhood that I feel even more strongly. I don’t think because my parents were very violent that low level violence is acceptable as I endured worse. It has encouraged me to make my home an zero tolerance to violence place where my goal is to show my children what civilised behaviour looks like.

@MillionBells

Often it's not until we have our own children that we're able to properly view the parenting we received. Kids who think it's OK that they were smacked now might feel differently when they are looking at their own kids and thinking "I could never treat them like that"

Absolutely. I mean you don't even hit a dog to teach them how to behave so why on Earth would you hit a small child?

I'm really glad to hear that most of us don't believe in smacking. The Daily Mail had me worried, but I do think it's a different and older demographic and it looks like parenting styles have moved on from the "I am your mother and you will respect me" approach.

I will admit that there have been times where my patience has been tested to the point of wanting to give DS "a little tap". Luckily I can control my temper as all that would only teach him that we hurt people that don't do what we want them to. Besides, I love him and really enjoy being his favourite person in the world, why would I want to risk damaging that.

If you're out of control enough to be hitting your kids, you can't be relied on to make it "just a tap". If you can control yourself enough to ensure it's "just a tap", you can bloody well keep your hands to yourself entirely.

Even the famous "tap" is likely to be hard on a small child, and it's still a terrible example to set that relies on fear, intimidation and the threat of worse pain.

@DrSbaitso

If you're out of control enough to be hitting your kids, you can't be relied on to make it "just a tap". If you can control yourself enough to ensure it's "just a tap", you can bloody well keep your hands to yourself entirely.

Even the famous "tap" is likely to be hard on a small child, and it's still a terrible example to set that relies on fear, intimidation and the threat of worse pain.

I said I was angry enough to be tempted, not that I did it. I am able to control my temper luckily.

I was beaten pretty badly on occasion (wooden spoons, the lot) and cannot see myself EVER carrying on that part of parenting.

Oh and I'm early 40s too - but grew up in a different country where walloping was more normalised. Kids were still getting hit as discipline at school around that time.

Still no excuse.

Anyone who smacks a child can not parent. You don't need to abuse a child to discipline them if your a good parent. Talk to them and teach them. By smacking them your teaching them hitting is OK and that they can accept that behaviour either from a future partner or other.

I really disagree with it and would never hit my kids. I don't even raise my voice at them ever. If they misbehave we talk about why it was wrong/how to behave next time and they deal with the consequences (loss of ipad etc etc).

I just don't understand it when people talk about a "light tap" on a child's hand or bum. If it causes absolutely no pain at all, how can it be a method of discipline? On the bum, through clothes, surely the child would barely notice it? So I don't believe in these "light taps". Admit it, you're smacking them.

@sqirrelfriends, I know, sorry. I meant "you" generically.

@Bloodybridget

I just don't understand it when people talk about a "light tap" on a child's hand or bum. If it causes absolutely no pain at all, how can it be a method of discipline? On the bum, through clothes, surely the child would barely notice it? So I don't believe in these "light taps". Admit it, you're smacking them.

Yes, it’s minimising language. Abusers do that.