Aibu to think most people don't smack their children

[sqirrelfriends]

So I just read a daily mail article (I know it's trash, please don't judge me) that's saying that experts are calling for smacking to be banned in England.

The comments section really surprised me, I don't know anyone who smacks their kids but it's overflowing with people saying that its the only way to control children and that half the prison population are there because they weren't smacked. Anyone saying that its wrong to physically punish a child is downvoted into oblivion.

Am I wrong to think this should have been illegal a long time ago? It's just seems wrong to be and my understanding was that kids who have been hit are more likely to be violent themselves.

Also, why would you need to ‘swat a child away from an electrical outlet?’ If they’re close enough to hit they’re close enough to move.

The distinction between hitting and smacking is a legal one actually. Smacking is specifically done with an open hand and shouldn’t leave a mark. The term ‘hitting’ used to refer to a punch with a fist, which has always been seen as child abuse and therefore illegal.

A technicality, yes, but legally it makes a world of difference. That might well change, but it’s how the law stands right now.

Ugh, I garbled my previous post. "Of course we have social problems but hitting children is a symptom of that, not a cause" - I meant to say "a symptom and a cause of that, not a solution".

It's getting late.

Ive smacked my youngest twice, both times it was my own frustration and exhaustion that led to me smacking him - no mark left but it's etched it my mind horribly, he was probably 3yrs then 4 years old.

I've never smacked his older sister and don't 'believe' in smacking.

It did absolutely no good and didn't teach him anything other than mummy was at end of her tether.

I certainly wouldn't tell people easily that I have done so twice and would put myself in the 'I don't smack' category, my eldest is 10..and would support a law change but looking back and whilst it's years ago, I remember those two times with shame but also just how drained and unhappy I was and how it was about that and not his behaviour.

You think swatting a child away from an electric outlet, for example will make them hate you?

Reductio ad absurdum arguments don't cut it with me @potatoocity, & of course I don't think that a single hitting incident results in hatred & NC.
If you can only advance your point by putting words into other people's mouths, your point isn't worth making.

What I DO think is - why would you be "swatting" in that scenario anyway?
If you are near enough to swat, you are near enough to scoop them up.
Why would you choose violence, when all that is required is a protective swoop?

I wouldn't smack my own child. It's not a form of discipline and could cause a lot more harm than any good.
However, I was very occasionally smacked as a child myself. It's not left me emotionally damaged or anything. And I'm not talking hard snacks, maybe more taps. My parents have always been extremely loving, secure and close to me and I don't feel any judgement towards them for giving an occasional smack. Maybe it was slightly more acceptable or normal in the 80s. Not sure. I was talking about this with my dad the other day and he said he only ever smacked me twice, both times was because I was trying to do something dangerous (I was a very defiant child). One time was a tap on the back of the legs when I was 6 because I woud not listen and was going into the sea when it was really rough.
So although I don't agree with smacking myself, I also don't hold it against my parents.

To those who have admitted to smacking your children - you should be ashamed.

The only times my parents physically punished me and my siblings were times we'd deliberately done something that put someone's life at risk.
We don't remember the sting of having our bums smacked - probably did worse to each other and laughed it off - we remember that we had driven our parents to this and that our parents usually cried more than we did.

There is a difference between smacking a child's bum for pushing someone into traffic and smacking a child around because you're unable to control your own anger, just as there is a difference between sending a child to their room for a time out, and locking a child in isolation for hours at a time.
And if you want to put it in an 'adult' context there is a difference between punching someone in the gut and (what was formerly known as) the heimlick manoeuvre, and there's a difference between molestation and cpr even though your mouth may cover theirs and hands may be in the touching the other persons (gasp) chest area.

I don't agree with smacking in general, but I think that education is a much better option than criminalisation.
I also strongly believe that general education should include practical learning, and not just teach-to-test, so relationships (pshe), parenting classes (biology/psychology), basic DIY (technology), budgeting or money management (maths), how to repair things etc. Not every child has parents, and not every parent is able to teach these things to their children.

From the majority of opinions on here, it seems that physical punishment it's on it's way out.
In the future I think people will look back on it the same way that we look back at children going out work in the mills/chimney sweeps etc

(Sorry about the essay)

@Kanaloa

Why do people always say swatting/tapping? Just say hit/slapped.

I don’t hit my kids. I wouldn’t accept my kids hitting each other for being annoying, so how can I then do it?

They say it to justify their own behaviour.

we had driven our parents to this and that our parents usually cried more than we did.

Wow, people still say this.

I was hit as a child in the 80s but don't know many people my age who were. I have spoken about it to many people and only 3 said their parents smacked them. I have always wondered if people just don't want to talk about it, or if smacking really was so rare.

I am also surprised so many posters know parents who still smack their children. Smacking is quite taboo nowadays, even more so than it was in the 80s, and I'd have thought people wouldn't admit to doing it.

A friend of mine once slapped her 4 year old on the bum for refusing to get dressed, I was really surprised by it. Apart from her, I have never seen anyone smack their children in public.

My father hit us when he seemed to have lost control, but oddly that never happened in public! He was able to restrain himself until we got home. I was terrified of his outbursts and even though they only happened once a year or so, they cast a shadow over my whole childhood. I have been very careful not to repeat the pattern with my children and hope I and my OH will continue to be as successful as we have been so far.

As for people saying the hitting stopped once they hit back: my father wouldn't have stopped. And he is taller and stronger than me so I wouldn't have stood a chance.

I was smacked and worse as a child. I have never smacked my dc and only know two people who admitted that they have / do smack their dc. I was completely shocked and have distanced myself from those people.

I'm in two minds about smacking.

I was smacked as a child BUT very rarely. It was reserved for times when I had done something that was very wrong I.e. what I did put me or others in danger etc. It was always on the bum or back of the legs and my mum although angry was in control of herself. Probably only smacked a few times in my whole childhood. Although it didn't hurt (I grew bigger than my mum very quickly - she's tiny) I was forever weary of doing anything that would make my mum smack me. It was a signal I really had gone too far. I have no issues with my mum and have never hit another person in anger in adulthood.

However, I know people who were smacked for every little thing and the smacking was not controlled and physically marked/bruised them. That is not ok. That can cause mental health issues, relationship issues and adult violence. That should not be permitted.

If we can't police/judge whether the smack was excessive or not then I think all of it should be banned.

@NonBinaryNumbers

I was hit as a child in the 80s but don't know many people my age who were. I have spoken about it to many people and only 3 said their parents smacked them. I have always wondered if people just don't want to talk about it, or if smacking really was so rare.

I am also surprised so many posters know parents who still smack their children. Smacking is quite taboo nowadays, even more so than it was in the 80s, and I'd have thought people wouldn't admit to doing it.

A friend of mine once slapped her 4 year old on the bum for refusing to get dressed, I was really surprised by it. Apart from her, I have never seen anyone smack their children in public.

My father hit us when he seemed to have lost control, but oddly that never happened in public! He was able to restrain himself until we got home. I was terrified of his outbursts and even though they only happened once a year or so, they cast a shadow over my whole childhood. I have been very careful not to repeat the pattern with my children and hope I and my OH will continue to be as successful as we have been so far.

As for people saying the hitting stopped once they hit back: my father wouldn't have stopped. And he is taller and stronger than me so I wouldn't have stood a chance.

I think it was probably a lot more common in the 80s, maybe even 90s. I'm 34 and remember my friends being smacked when I was younger, maybe not a lot but it wasn't unheard of. I do remember my mum's friend reacting to her youngest swearing (he was only about 6 and just said one swear word) so she got him in the bathroom and washed his mouth out with soap! I remember thinking as a child witnessing that how awful it was. So it's not always smacking.

All the people saying it didn't do them harm etc...but they also say, or imply, that they grew up ok and with good relationships IN SPITE OF the smacking, not because of it. They also almost always don't smack their own kids.

I don't think I've ever seen a single person who wasn't smacked growing up who wishes they had been.

It is an independently poor parenting choice. At best, it's undesirable and bad parenting and runs the risk of escalation. At worst...

I don't remember every incident of being hit as a child (and to give the hitters some slack, I'm not counting the teenage abuse, just the hitting snall children stuff that's apparently ok) but I remember a couple. I can't remember at all what it was about, but I do remember being frightened, humiliated, in pain and actually hating my parents more than any child of that age should be capable of doing.

Oh, and I remember re-enacting it later with my soft toys, hitting them and telling them it was necessary...

@DrSbaitso

& credit to all the kids who grew up to reject the poor parenting examples they were given.

Sometimes that takes a great deal of painful self-analysis & introspection. People who choose to do that have the courage to address their internal pain, anger, or loss of control, rather than avoid it by unthinkingly inflicting it on kids.

Small wonder they have little tolerance for child-hitters, & see them as cowardly.

@DrSbaitso I guess I could be seen as one of those didn't do me any harm people with my previous comment. However, my experience was more like an occasional quick tap on the back of the legs for doing something dangerous. And no that that didn't do me any harm.
However, from what you describe from your childhood, that sounds a lot worse and scary. Everyone's going to be effected differently.

Also, parents in their 20s, 30s and 40s now will not have had the same sort of teach by fear education that our some of our parents and grandparents generations would have had. That's not an excuse for smacking BTW but it shows how the mentality has changed at lot as each decade has gone by.

In my experience most parents smack their children. I definitely think there’s a cultural element too, a lot of cultures are quite proud of doing so and I’ve heard lots of mothers compare their children to children of other cultures (mainly white British) who don’t receive harsh consequences for their behaviour. A Black friend at uni used to say she could always tell which mixed race children and adults had white mothers and which had black mothers from the way they carried themselves and behaved in certain situations (due to the reactions, or perhaps lack of, they would’ve received at home growing up). A lot of people agreed with her, and while it was very lazy stereotyping on her behalf, she was never wrong!

Thank you, @ChargingBuck.

If being hit growing up didn't do someone any harm, of course I'm glad of that. I don't want children being damaged to make a point.

But as before, even those who weren't harmed weren't harmed in spite of it. It may not have damaged them but it did them no benefit. It was never the best possible choice. And as PPs are saying, they still almost always choose not to do it themselves even if they aren't bothered by it having happened to them. That tells you something.

"Teach by fear education" is it in a nutshell. Those who did it and say it worked mean that it worked because it frightened kids. It didn't teach them any moral lesson. It didn't enable them to learn in any meaningful way. It didn't make them think or want to be more compassionate. If you threaten to bash me for something, I probably won't do it because I'm a huge physical coward. But you won't have taught me anything about why it shouldn't be done, you've given me no incentive not to do it when you're not there, and you certainly won't make me respect you.

It seems impossible to have a proper debate about this because there is always a conflation between those hat were given reasonable chastisement and those who were abused. People in the latter category and those who werenot smacked at all seem unable to differentiate between a swat on the butt which is more about a shock than pain, and a scary painful beating. They are 2 completely different things

You could change "pain" to "shock" in pretty much every anti-smacking argument and the points we still stand. Whatever it's about, it isn't thought, reason or leading by example. It's fear and intimidation.

On the one hand I'm offended by the assumption that I don't know the difference between a "swat" (hitting) and a scary painful beating. The psychological damage I sustained as a small child were definitely from hitting that was within the remit of what was acceptable at the time.

On the other, it does make my point by showing how pro-hitters don't understand how harmful it can be. The assumption that I couldn't possibly be damaged unless it was much worse is precisely how hitters justify themselves and invalidate the harm.

But do you see the reason why there’s a differentiation between ‘smacking’ and ‘hitting’. It’s there because ‘smacking’ with an open hand that doesn’t leave a mark is still legal. Hitting with a fist (‘punching’) never was.

This is why that distinction exists IMO. It’s also meant that ‘smacking’ was seen as socially acceptable until fairly recently. (Especially in the conservative Evangelical circles I know.)

I expect the law will catch up soon, as it has in Scotland.

The fact that the law needs to distinguish between this sort of ok hitting and that sort of "oh no we didn't mean that" hitting is yet more evidence that even if there is a good way of doing it (and there isn't), hitters can't be trusted to know the difference, and it should be consigned to the dustbin of history along with many other things that for some reason people thought were OK in 1985. Like marital rape, homophobic discrimination and massive shoulder pads.

Even at its best, it's a bad technique with no benefit to the child. People who complain that you "can't have a discussion about it" really mean that they can't win an argument about it, because it's so indefensible. If you expect your kids to grow up not hitting people, do it yourself.

I’m 27 and was not smacked as punishment - I remember being smacked once for running into a road at about 3? and then getting a slap across the face as a teenager for being a horrible cow. I remember my mum crying both times because she’d lost her temper and feeling awful about it because her argument was that if you smacked a random in the street you’d be done for assault but in all fairness I deserved them and everybody has a limit.

Friends that have children now - I know a 1 who smacks back of hands etc for naughty/dangerous behaviour but generally it’s a no and I don’t think it’s really done anymore?

I don’t agree with smacking children as a punishment - I think it’s wrong - and follow the same line of thinking as my Mum. However I don’t have children of my own yet so I’m probably not the best person to pass judgement.

I deserved them

No, you did not. And do not let anyone in your life ever tell you that you do.