Aibu to think most people don't smack their children

[sqirrelfriends]

So I just read a daily mail article (I know it's trash, please don't judge me) that's saying that experts are calling for smacking to be banned in England.

The comments section really surprised me, I don't know anyone who smacks their kids but it's overflowing with people saying that its the only way to control children and that half the prison population are there because they weren't smacked. Anyone saying that its wrong to physically punish a child is downvoted into oblivion.

Am I wrong to think this should have been illegal a long time ago? It's just seems wrong to be and my understanding was that kids who have been hit are more likely to be violent themselves.

YANBU to think that smacking should be illegal, YABU to think it’s not common unfortunately

I'm actually shocked that people are trying to justify smacking a child! No matter how you try and Sugar coat it. An adult only smacks a child when they have lost control. You are purposely trying to scare the child by smacking them.

If I came on here and said that my husband and I had an argument and he slapped me, everyone would say LTB, get out now. How is this OK with a child!!!

I have 3 children and have never smacked any off them and never would. Anyone who does, in my opinion, is disgusting. It 100% should be illegal.

And I can assure you my children are well behaved, they have boundaries and people often comment on how good they are.

Oh yes, Facebook, that intimate channel reserved only for people we really like and admire. Do your old students hit their own children now, do you think? So you were able to keep control without hitting in the classroom but not at home? I'm still glad that a person who thinks you can explain the concept of wrongdoing to a small child by hitting them, who sees nothing wrong with this 40 years later, who thinks it's "arrogance" to reject it as a technique and that wayward teenagers merely lack "discipline", isn't teaching now. It's not 1975 any more, Miss, and as far as hitting children goes, that's a good thing.
I think you are wilfully misunderstanding me. I gave no idea how my former pupils discipline their children. The point I am making is that I was an excellent teacher, who smacked my own children when they were young. So did most of my colleagues.
Neither did I say that wayward teenagers merely lacked discipline. Their poor behaviour was likely to have been down to a combination of things, one of which may have been lack of proper discipline.
There is bound to be a conflict of views between the generations, but I think you would agree that behaviour in schools, and in society at large, has deteriorated significantly during the years when parenting has become so permissive.

Hitting children is awful, people who choose to hit their children call it smacking to make it sound nicer.

Our parents hit us, it teaches you a few things, one being that the people who are supposed to love you like hurting you, two that certain behaviours result in being the victim of physical violence, and onlooking siblings victims and witnesses of abuse. So the child may stop a behaviour, but they haven’t been taught in a way that they can apply it to other situations. If you love someone you don’t choose to physically hurt them or scare them.

My son is hard work, he has additional needs including issues around trauma and attachment, so at times his behaviour is extremely challening. Behaviour is a form of communication, even the really annoying behaviour that drives you insane. Our job is to work out what they’re trying to communicate and to fix that issue. Assaulting my son may stop a behaviour, but it does nothing to solve the underlying cause. Rather than feeling safe enough to express a negative behaviour infront if me, he would then be too scared and would learn that he needs to repress his feelings to avoid being assaulted.

It's illegal where I live and for good reason but no doubt it's still common place. The problem is these patterns are ingrained so it's often cyclical. If you were smacked as a child it's incredibly difficult not to repeat this (for some). Growing up in the 80's, most in my circle were smacked so we're the first generation of parents who have to deal with it becoming socially and legally unacceptable. This is not an easy task at times!

I abhor violence against children and grew up with a father who was free with his fists, so I know the damage it causes and yet I've still had to exercise immense self-control not to hit my DC. To retaliate with violence to a perceived threat is my default setting as it was a self-preservation method growing up. No amount of "gentle parenting" books and blog posts can eradicate that feeling when my defenses are low. Luckily I've managed to control it so far but sadly I can't be 100% confident that I'll never hit my children. I'm glad it's illegal as it really is an extra deterrent and I'm pretty appalled that for a country that can be so comically "PC" at times the UK is so behind on this? What's that about?!

I think people don't understand the two smacks I've given to my son to get a child who's drawing blood from me via violence.

I didn't use a belt or a spoon or anything 😳, I didn't even leave a red mark, I literally slapped the back of his hand when he had a fist full of my hair and was ripping it out of my scalp. When he bit me, it was his thigh I slapped, but again didn't leave a red mark. I just needed him to release his jaw off my arm, and the more I tried to pull it away the more he sunk his teeth in. I tried saying/shouting stop it, he took no interest and when I could see the blood running down my forearm I panicked I'll admit 😳

Honestly the other times he's attacked me I've been able to get him off but on these two occasions I just couldn't.

@MaleficentsCrow

I understand where you’re coming from. I think that parents who haven’t experienced violence towards them from their children don’t get it at all. I’ve experienced violence from my DD1 (now 12). It was more extreme when she was younger, she once tried to hit me with a rounders bat and she would stamp hard on my feet.

She still lashes out now, she’s thrown her phone at my DH and me, but it’s not nearly so aggressive now. (I should explain that both my DDs are adopted, which is obviously at the root of her anger.)

I know what you mean about fight and flight. I used to worry that I would end up hurting her when restraining her.

But that isn’t really what this thread is about. It’s very different from parents using violence to punish/intimidate children, which is what my F was doing. We were no threat to him!

@Lilypansy

Oh yes, Facebook, that intimate channel reserved only for people we really like and admire. Do your old students hit their own children now, do you think? So you were able to keep control without hitting in the classroom but not at home? I'm still glad that a person who thinks you can explain the concept of wrongdoing to a small child by hitting them, who sees nothing wrong with this 40 years later, who thinks it's "arrogance" to reject it as a technique and that wayward teenagers merely lack "discipline", isn't teaching now. It's not 1975 any more, Miss, and as far as hitting children goes, that's a good thing. I think you are wilfully misunderstanding me. I gave no idea how my former pupils discipline their children. The point I am making is that I was an excellent teacher, who smacked my own children when they were young. So did most of my colleagues. Neither did I say that wayward teenagers merely lacked discipline. Their poor behaviour was likely to have been down to a combination of things, one of which may have been lack of proper discipline. There is bound to be a conflict of views between the generations, but I think you would agree that behaviour in schools, and in society at large, has deteriorated significantly during the years when parenting has become so permissive.

No, I would not agree at all. Every generation sneers at the younger one; even Socrates was complaining about it. A lot of what you see as deteriorating behaviour has always been there, it's just that now it has a name and a solution that doesn't involve hitting, which doesn't go down well with some people. I used to hear that my generation "invented" allergies. If my generation is parenting so badly, what did we learn from the one that raised us?

And I am not misunderstanding you either. You have been very explicit about hitting children to communicate wrongdoing (and backtracking to make it "reinforcement" when I pointed out that if you are going to explain what's wrong, the hitting doesn't achieve anything) and all the rest of it. It's all there for anyone who wants to read it.

We are aware that your generation smacked a lot. That's the problem, and we reject it. It's been 40 years of advancement and better understanding. Many people look back and see it wasn't good and accept that they wouldn't do it now.

I used to be a teacher in South London and the kids from Afro Caribbean and Portuguese families had a culture of beating their kids and were very proud of it. I was a young, trainee teacher and would report it when the kids would tell me or the parents told me they were going to do it, but I believe the safeguarding managers always just put it down to "cultural practices".

It was difficult for me to involve the parents in discipline whilst knowing that my phone call might mean they'd come in limping the next day.

It should absolutely be illegal. I would never smack a child (or adult for that matter).

@DrSbaitso you are a proper smartypants. [not sarcasm]

I'm an old bat, & am so glad that your millennial generation has people in it like you. Some of the attitudes I've read on this thread are suffocatingly horrible, & it's not even the daily mail - it's MN ffs. You know - a PARENTING site.

People who reckon it's dandy to "tap" kids are welcome to form an orderly queue, volunteering for similar treatment. Funny how none of them will show up, innit?
They are abject cowards, lazy thinkers, & more concerned with ego than empathy.

Smacking or tapping or swatting will not make your child hate you and whatever else.

Is that a fact @potatoocity? [hmmm]

yours "hysterically"
Buck

I was born in the 60s. I didn't have the best of childhoods, but I was never, ever smacked. I think that's quite unusual for the time.

I've never smacked my own children either, the thought of smacking is totally abhorrent to me.

[quote ChargingBuck]@DrSbaitso you are a proper smartypants. [not sarcasm]

I'm an old bat, & am so glad that your millennial generation has people in it like you. Some of the attitudes I've read on this thread are suffocatingly horrible, & it's not even the daily mail - it's MN ffs. You know - a PARENTING site.

People who reckon it's dandy to "tap" kids are welcome to form an orderly queue, volunteering for similar treatment. Funny how none of them will show up, innit?
They are abject cowards, lazy thinkers, & more concerned with ego than empathy.[/quote]
Ah, thank you.

I feel strongly about this. I feel very protective of children being subjected to this. I know that it was once the norm and accepted, but there is a massive difference between the parents who look back and say "yeah, that was wrong, glad the tide is turning and I wouldn't do it now" and those who just insist that an entire generation that was raised on it has turned its back on it for no reason.

On the occasions when you do see a (neurotypical) young person with serious behavioural problems, there is always a complicated backstory. It is very rarely a case of simply no discipline, and even when it is, hitting isn't the answer. The best grounding you can give is to model the behaviour you'd like to see, and use positive reinforcement. Then you often find that simply not praising is all you need to correct behaviour.

We are aware that your generation smacked a lot. That's the problem, and we reject it. It's been 40 years of advancement and better understanding. Many people look back and see it wasn't good and accept that they wouldn't do it now
So would you agree with me that standards of behaviour have deteriorated in recent years, or do you reject that too?

@ChargingBuck

Smacking or tapping or swatting will not make your child hate you and whatever else.

Is that a fact @potatoocity? [hmmm]

yours "hysterically"
Buck

Huh? You think swatting a child away from an electric outlet, for example will make them hate you? Not the end of the world, as I clearly said.

Half the worlds population must be no contact with their family if that's the case.

I’m not comparing parenting to dog training of course

I wish more people would, @MissChanandlerBong90!

Proper dog training is a lot kinder, effective & sensible than some parenting I've witnessed.
Ignore/deflect unwanted behaviours, reward good behaviours. No hitting, oodles of affection & bonding, positive shared learning experiences - job done.

I was smacked (hand, wooden spoon) and verbally abused. Left to cry for hours because I was being naughty (from age 0 upwards).

My parents were/are good people, but it was socially accepted abuse when I was growing up (70s/80s).

I have never and will never smack my children. I have to watch myself for snapping though as that is ingrained like rings in a tree. I hate myself if I do and always apologise and tell them how much i love them.

Daily mail readers age around 60 so smacking was acceptable then to some parents.

@Lilypansy

We are aware that your generation smacked a lot. That's the problem, and we reject it. It's been 40 years of advancement and better understanding. Many people look back and see it wasn't good and accept that they wouldn't do it now So would you agree with me that standards of behaviour have deteriorated in recent years, or do you reject that too?

I said that I reject that too. Read the post. Bad behaviour has always been there but now we have names for it and solutions that don't involve hitting. Of course we have social problems but hitting children is a symptom of that, not a cause.

My father would have told you that discipline had gone down the toilet since he was at school. Maybe he was well behaved there, I don't know, but he was a right arsehole elsewhere. The damage always comes out somewhere, but it's only quite recently that the most affected people have had a voice about it.

I have never used corporal punishment in my teaching career. I said, I smacked my own children when they were young.

You say this as if it's some kind of mitgation.
Instead of what is actually is - you didn't dare smack other people's kids, because you'd have had angry parents or the law on your back.

Behind you own closed doors though, what the hell.
You could get away with it.

Would you have smacked an adult?
THEN WHY THE FUCK WERE YOU SMACKING A CHILD?

Why do people always say swatting/tapping? Just say hit/slapped.

I don’t hit my kids. I wouldn’t accept my kids hitting each other for being annoying, so how can I then do it?

@Kanaloa

Why do people always say swatting/tapping? Just say hit/slapped.

I don’t hit my kids. I wouldn’t accept my kids hitting each other for being annoying, so how can I then do it?

Because it's not?
Have you ever seen a child get beaten, like properly? I did as a child (normal in my culture) and it was genuinely disturbing

I reactive swat is not a beating.

Smacking is about as subjective as it gets. Some people are completely against swatting of hands, even. Others beat with wooden spoons etc.

It's safer to err on the side of caution and not hit at all- but to say that it's all the same is extremely disingenuous and minimising genuine abuse by lumping everything in together.

Neither did I say that wayward teenagers merely lacked discipline. Their poor behaviour was likely to have been down to a combination of things, one of which may have been lack of proper discipline.

Are you genuinely unable to perceive that achieving discipline doesn't depend on violence?

As a child, my disciplined behaviour was far more in evidence around the adults who chose not to assault me. Odd that, innit?

Surely this is not too conceptually challenging for a self-proclaimed "excellent teacher" to understand?

I didn’t say beat? I said hit/slap. Tapping is not an appropriate description.