Aibu to think most people don't smack their children

[sqirrelfriends]

So I just read a daily mail article (I know it's trash, please don't judge me) that's saying that experts are calling for smacking to be banned in England.

The comments section really surprised me, I don't know anyone who smacks their kids but it's overflowing with people saying that its the only way to control children and that half the prison population are there because they weren't smacked. Anyone saying that its wrong to physically punish a child is downvoted into oblivion.

Am I wrong to think this should have been illegal a long time ago? It's just seems wrong to be and my understanding was that kids who have been hit are more likely to be violent themselves.

I strongly disagree with smacking children as discipline. My mum would hit me and my sisters, quite hard, rather than take the time to talk to us about our behaviour. I'm not close with her at all and it's those childhood memories of her hitting us that stands out the most to me. It's very old fashioned and not the route that I will take with my daughter.

Fucking hell.

If anyone needs further proof of what hitting kids does to them psychologically, have a read of an adult who was hit as a child saying that they, a literal child, deserved to be hit.

That is so disturbing. I’m so sorry @BubblesThaDragoon. It’s a common response to childhood abuse, to try and find a way to tell yourself it was something you did that caused it. Because the alternative, acknowledging that you were an innocent, helpless child let down by a violent adult, is too horrifying to contemplate.

You didn’t deserve it and I really hope someday you realise that.

It's fine to smack children as long as you are also ok with your colleagues hitting you if you don't get your work done or your husband hitting you for not tidying up your things or your friend hitting you for turning up late to dinner....

I think people that hit children do it because they don't have the education to understand the psychology of what they are teaching and they don't have the understanding for how to parent positively.

"It didn't do me any harm" is the most flawed statement ever - it taught you to follow the cycle of hitting someone weaker than you.

@WeatherSystems

Fucking hell.

If anyone needs further proof of what hitting kids does to them psychologically, have a read of an adult who was hit as a child saying that they, a literal child, deserved to be hit.

That is so disturbing. I’m so sorry @BubblesThaDragoon. It’s a common response to childhood abuse, to try and find a way to tell yourself it was something you did that caused it. Because the alternative, acknowledging that you were an innocent, helpless child let down by a violent adult, is too horrifying to contemplate.

You didn’t deserve it and I really hope someday you realise that.

Exactly.

Notice that it's only the adult who's allowed to be at their limit, provoked into it etc. Not the actual child, or teenager. I don't know what the teenage face slap was about, but I'll be astounded if it came from a calm background in which Mum consistently modelled better behaviours, had in this instance done everything she could to de-escalate and make use of her supposed greater maturity, and it really was nothing but the teenager going on and on.

But that's the other problem with hitting your kids. Not only do they not learn anything worthwhile from it, the parents don't either. So come the teenage years, when the kid is acting up, the parent hasn't learned any control or de-escalation techniques for themselves. It may not always ramp up into face slapping etc but nobody should be surprised if it does. The parent never did anything anything help the child or themselves learn coping strategies.

I used to work as a practitioner specialising in psychotherapeutic work with those convicted of violent offences, almost without exception they were hit as children. It normalises violence as acceptable in certain situations and they develop very entrenched beliefs around that, that are very difficult to change.

Those saying that smacking isn’t the same as a beating or abuse and doesn’t cause damage are just trying to make themselves feel better.

I experienced both “smacking” and proper abuse in different settings. I can remember every single time I was smacked, just as clearly as the times I was beaten (different parents responsible). I have very low self esteem as an adult, have ended up in all sorts of abusive relationships and until I had a lot of therapy, thought that someone being angry with me or any problem in any relationship was 100% my fault and was because I was just a bad person who deserved it.

Smacking only “works” because it makes your kids terrified of you. How many people do you choose to have in your life as an adult who terrify you? And how many adults do you use fear and physical intimidation with to get your own way? I’m guessing none, because you’d be arrested if you did!

@a8mint

It seems impossible to have a proper debate about this because there is always a conflation between those hat were given reasonable chastisement and those who were abused. People in the latter category and those who werenot smacked at all seem unable to differentiate between a swat on the butt which is more about a shock than pain, and a scary painful beating. They are 2 completely different things

I don't want to shock my child. She's 6. Why would I want her to be scared of me?

I was never scared of my mum. I got a shock when I got a rare smack but I was always well on my way down the road of messing, winding her or my sister up, being arrogant and obtuse. Seeing mum properly cross would shock me into 'uh oh'. I was very loved and supported and adored, as a child and now. I honestly haven't seen any better parents of anyone I know. Mine are gold. But occasionally I got a smack.

I think the major difference is that my mum took no pleasure in her anger and it never confused me as I was always respected and loved. When she tipped over the edge, I'd always had many warnings and it was clear she was at the end of her rope even before a smack. But seriously, colleagues and partners don't behave like children so it's not a comparison.

@Imcatmum adults are plenty capable of behaving in a way that is rude, obtuse, winding up, arrogant. They can easily also be more aggressive and cruel than a child. We acknowledge that it is not acceptable to use physical force to stop adults when they behave this way…. We may shout, we may walk away, depending on who they are we may have to try to diffuse the situation another way, but we don’t hit them.

I don’t care which way you cut it, smacking is wrong. Our parents didn’t have the knowledge. All the child development and parenting research acknowledges smacking is now wrong. We know better, so we can do better.

Have I? Yes. Do I wish I hadn't, yes. Can I count the times on one hand? Yes (I have 3 kids).

But If someone asked me do I smack my kids, the answer would be no, I don't. I mean, I smack them like I get fall down drunk (3 times in my life).

I think 'most' if not a lot, of people fall into my category. Others, sadly fall into the category of a previous poster who said she was 'smacked' - and it caused her great pain and left physical marks. That's not being smacked, that's being beaten or abused.

I was having this discussion with a fellow parent once. She said she had never laid a hand on her child, but had shamed her on occasion and felt that that was worse than a smack. I thought that was very insightful. I would class her as one of the better parents I know.

I’m in my 50’s. I was smacked a lot as a child. I’ve never smacked my own children. Never wanted to or felt the need to do it. I was shit scared of my mum, don’t want my kids feeling like that about me.

It’s like people who say just a ‘’tap on the hand” ? I don’t get that. I mean what’s the point? If you’re going to use smacking as a punishment a “tap on the hand” isn’t going to be effective at all!

I’ve no idea if my friends smack their kids, I’ve never witnessed anyone I know do it.

I'm early 50s.

I was smacked as a child - infrequently and not with any physical brutality. I still remember it feeling scary and humiliating.

The only time myself or my peers smacked our own children was out of anger - always with deep regret afterwards (including apologising to the child ) and no-one I know has done it more than once or twice, absolute maximum.

Smacking really has no place in parenting in my opinion.

Conchitastrawberry

Agree. That's why I don't agree with it out of anger/loss of control OR in a calm, premeditated, 'light' way. The latter is possibly more baffling - and slightly sinister.

@Imcatmum

I was never scared of my mum. I got a shock when I got a rare smack but I was always well on my way down the road of messing, winding her or my sister up, being arrogant and obtuse. Seeing mum properly cross would shock me into 'uh oh'. I was very loved and supported and adored, as a child and now. I honestly haven't seen any better parents of anyone I know. Mine are gold. But occasionally I got a smack.

I think the major difference is that my mum took no pleasure in her anger and it never confused me as I was always respected and loved. When she tipped over the edge, I'd always had many warnings and it was clear she was at the end of her rope even before a smack. But seriously, colleagues and partners don't behave like children so it's not a comparison.

Despite all the floweriness here, you're still pretty clear that she hit you because she lost her temper ("tipped over the edge", "end of her rope", all language designed to minimise her personal resposibility). It's not acceptable to hit a small child because you failed at self control. We don't accept it as an excuse for hitting anyone else. Presumably she didn't want you to grow up hitting your sister out of anger?

It's a failure of self control and we are supposed to be teaching our kids how to handle complex or strong emotions. It's not ok. Yes, small children can be antagonistic. Grown ups need to find ways to deal with it.

I have never seen any of my friends smack their DC and a couple are very open about not agreeing with it (I feel the same). I have no idea what goes on when I am not there of course.

I couldn't hit a child, all it does is teaches fear and that hitting people is ok.

It should be illegal.

I have a 2 year old DS who I have never smacked, and I hope I never do.

For those of us who were smacked occasionally as children but it caused no trauma, bad effects, etc, and we still had a very stable, loving, secure relationship, should we be holding our parents to account for their actions? Should we have bad feelings towards them?
As a parent myself, I don't smack or agree with it but I equally don't have bad feelings towards my parents for maybe 3 smacks in my entire childhood. Things have changed massively through each generation and thank goodness for that.

However, I find it strange that if someone is saying they were smacked occasionally but it didn't effect them, then others are doubting this and almost calling their parents bad. I don't think that's fair.

A pp said her parents are 'gold' to her, despite a few smacks. That's her experience. It's not for anyone else to disbelief that or judge her parents. Some people are very quick to label everyone in the same way.

Never smacked either child. Never will. As far as I'm concerned, smacking an adult is an offence and it should be the same for a child. No child learns to behave through smacking, they just learn fear.

DH was smacked all the time as a kid, and his parents still threaten to smack the grandkids if they are naughty. It's part of the reason my kids don't go there, because she's threatened to smack them before. Over my dead body she will. DH has smacked DS once, and I told him if he did it again he would be leaving the house.

I was smacked occasionally as a child, mainly by my dad, and it left no real trauma (the trauma was from other emotionally neglecting factors) but I sure as hell wouldn't smack my own.

@mag2305

For those of us who were smacked occasionally as children but it caused no trauma, bad effects, etc, and we still had a very stable, loving, secure relationship, should we be holding our parents to account for their actions? Should we have bad feelings towards them? As a parent myself, I don't smack or agree with it but I equally don't have bad feelings towards my parents for maybe 3 smacks in my entire childhood. Things have changed massively through each generation and thank goodness for that.

However, I find it strange that if someone is saying they were smacked occasionally but it didn't effect them, then others are doubting this and almost calling their parents bad. I don't think that's fair.

A pp said her parents are 'gold' to her, despite a few smacks. That's her experience. It's not for anyone else to disbelief that or judge her parents. Some people are very quick to label everyone in the same way.

I'm not telling anyone how to feel towards their parents, or that smacking is the only parenting fail that there is. But I am saying that it is a poor and unacceptable parenting technique, and not excusable just because the parent was angry. And I would very much hope that you use better parenting techniques for your own children.

anyone's kid misbehaves - mustn't smack the little darlings, they are only 23 and haven't fully developed yet. just love them.

anyone's DH is slightly annoying - twatting spade, kick to the balls, bury him, LTB

oh well, just another day on MN

@PumpkinKlNG

Hmm most people I know irl do. Maybe it’s most wont admit it? So you are never going to get a accurate answer as I don’t think those that do would openly admit it.

100% good answer. Statistics will tell you nothing because it relies on people being honest.

Lots of people will dismiss this as they will think it's OK and do it themselves, but I also think some non physical discipline can be very bad in a different way. I don't agree with naughty steps (I actually hate the word naughty being used) and cringe when parents talk about naughty steps, swearing at children, shaming, humiliating, grounding in bedrooms... Lots of these thing cause trauma too.

@mag2305

For those of us who were smacked occasionally as children but it caused no trauma, bad effects, etc, and we still had a very stable, loving, secure relationship, should we be holding our parents to account for their actions? Should we have bad feelings towards them? As a parent myself, I don't smack or agree with it but I equally don't have bad feelings towards my parents for maybe 3 smacks in my entire childhood. Things have changed massively through each generation and thank goodness for that.

However, I find it strange that if someone is saying they were smacked occasionally but it didn't effect them, then others are doubting this and almost calling their parents bad. I don't think that's fair.

A pp said her parents are 'gold' to her, despite a few smacks. That's her experience. It's not for anyone else to disbelief that or judge her parents. Some people are very quick to label everyone in the same way.

If parents were otherwise good parents and it was done occasionally at a time when it was the norm, I wouldn't hold it against them. In my case I do hold it against them as they were bad parents in other ways and it was regular hitting on the body and head that went on til my teenage years (when I started hitting back) so yes I do hold it against them

@ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba

anyone's kid misbehaves - mustn't smack the little darlings, they are only 23 and haven't fully developed yet. just love them.

anyone's DH is slightly annoying - twatting spade, kick to the balls, bury him, LTB

oh well, just another day on MN

What are you on about 🤣

People are saying they don't agree with smacking children (young or old) . Not that their 23 year old "darlings" are actually reckless thugs and are proud of it.

God, have an orgasm or do some exercise or something. Anything that will get the hormones flowing and brighten you up a bit.

Mumsnet is a ridiculous place sometimes. But you're free to leave and bitch about it on Reddit or to your friends. No ones keeping you here.