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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that parents don’t often know how shitty their dc’s behaviour is at school

167 replies

SpaceRaiders · 25/06/2021 18:31

Dd9 moved to a new school in March. Whilst we’re happy with the school in other areas, she’s found the boys in her class a real challenge. I’ve heard nothing bad things from her since. From disruptive classes, shouting out and swearing to low level bullying. There seems to be the same boys being disruptive but seemingly the entire class gets reprimanded.

I’m guessing the other parents aren’t fully aware what’s going on during school. They certainly will after today’s incident, where a parent has found out about some awful things that have been said and kicked off on WhatsApp. I won’t go into details as it may be outing for all involved. But I’ve been really appalled by what I’m hearing and it’s completely unexpected from the lovely well to do area that we live in. I’d be absolutely appalled if it were my child.

OP posts:
KindnessMyFriends · 26/06/2021 07:58

I have worked in a very large high school for 24 years. I have never experienced behaviour as bad as it is currently. Teachers and support staff are exhausted. Children stay in their classroom all day and staff are moving from room to room every period. Students 'own the room' and are full of pent up energy as apart from break and 30 minute lunch they are for the most part sitting in one seat for 5 hours. On a large site, teachers are walking quite some distance every day between lessons, taking all of their equipment with them. Once in a room teachers have to log on to take electronic registers and log off at the end, rinse and repeat several times a day. They also have to ensure work is available in virtual classrooms for shielding and isolating students in addition to normal lesson prep and classroom delivery.
Hopefully in September things will be back to normal and balance will be restored. Please be kind to teachers and understand many students are behaving badly partly due to covid protocols in schools.

HelloDulling · 26/06/2021 08:00

My quiet, sensitive, sensible gets-on-with-everyone dd is coming home telling me that this person and that X was swearing at school, that Y child was in tears because someone said a mean thing, that she was prevented from playing a game because W and Z didn’t want her to join in or that X didn’t allow her to sit next to Y at lunch.

The majority of this is just normal playground stuff though. Is this what you mean by bullying? They are children, trying out their personalities, working out where they fit in the social structure. The whole you can’t sit with us/we’re only playing with each other today is they way they learn social skills. I could do without the swearing, but if they have older siblings, it’s unavoidable I’m afraid.

EmeraldShamrock · 26/06/2021 08:12

My quiet, sensitive, sensible gets-on-with-everyone dd is coming home telling me that this person and that X was swearing at school, that Y child was in tears because someone said a mean thing, that she was prevented from playing a game because W and Z didn’t want her to join in or that X didn’t allow her to sit next to Y at lunch.
All normal standard school stuff unfortunately, including bad language once they're above a certain age, DD has to ignore any negative comments.

Littlecaf · 26/06/2021 08:15

My DC are young so I couldn’t comment on them but I recall from my own time at a failing comprehensive school there was a variety of bad and poor behaviour in my class.

I can now see that a number of these children either had problems at home or mild special needs, even allowing for this, their behaviour still disrupted my education, especially in classes where the teacher was weak or not a good communicator.

I was a good grade A student, I still came out with high grades and good strong friendship group but there were many other children who were average or needed extra help who didn’t get it because others in their class were so disruptive and they were overlooked.

I expect that the parents of the children who were disruptive were either unable to see it, didn’t care or couldn’t/wouldn’t help. In hindsight it’s very sad. I wouldn’t get involved i discussions of children’s behaviour with other parents - if it’s distressing your child take it up with the school direct.

cocoloco987 · 26/06/2021 08:21

The school should be informing them of disruptive or poor behaviour. If they are not doing so then it's a school problem not a parenting problem if as you say the parents actually have no idea. Your school attainment is likely high due to it being in a 'well to do area' as you state. DC and school naturally have a head start on that compared to a deprived area. Doesn't mean there won't be some challenging behaviour.

IntoAir · 26/06/2021 08:45

Maybe the parents were/are bullies too so aren't all that nice either

That was my first thought as well. Often parents condone their children’s bad behaviour towards fellow pupils: the victims are “weak” or need “taking down.”

And those sorts of attitudes cut across classes and income levels.

EmeraldShamrock · 26/06/2021 09:00

I know the group of boys in DD's class often have parents attend for the serious issues I'm not sure if teacher informs their parents about daily incidents or she'd be on the phone all day.
They're 12. DD is very quiet some of the incidents are OTT.
I don't envy her Teacher once a lad mentioned DD's flat chest when doing art. Teacher dealt with it swiftly.
The one goods far outweigh the mean pre-teens.
I think it's the age too, they weren't rude DC when they were younger, I know lots of them from ages 4/5.
Dreading secondary school for her.

C130 · 26/06/2021 09:48

Yabu to think that living in a "lovely well to do area" means that these things will not happen.

IWishForUnicorns · 26/06/2021 09:53

Honestly most parents won't know.

A few weeks ago my DD was involved in an incident at school and I was only told because the behaviour was so unusual for her. Headteacher says she wouldn't inform parents unless an extremely serious incident otherwise which tells me that some children misbehave regularly and their parents never find out.

ineedaholidaynow · 26/06/2021 09:58

I think a lot of parents are totally unaware of the low level disruption behaviour their child may be doing and how it impacts the class. Also many parents mistakenly believe, if their child is told off for behaviour issues, that they are a follower not a leader.

SpaceRaiders · 26/06/2021 10:28

Fwiw, there have been a couple of aggressive incidents from this group, one boy in particular has raised eyebrows. IMO it’s a slippery slope, minimising negative behaviour, verbal bullying etc will lead to more of the same. If the school aren’t able to deal with it, then who is challenging it?

Now there may be a cultural differences here which play a part in my views. I come from a place where there is a huge emphasis on education and a no nonsense approach to disruptive behaviour. I’m not saying it was in anyway perfect, however this “minor” stuff and I hate to call it that, didn’t happen very often. The school would come down on the child like a ton of bricks with full support from parents. I think some here are also minimising the impact this kind of repeated disruption has on the class as a whole.

I do accept IABU to a certain extent, my presumptions have not been right. And the issues that other schools face in more deprived areas are just as likely to be found around here.

OP posts:
SeasonFinale · 26/06/2021 10:48

The main issue is you haven't said what has actually happened so no-one can really comment if DD is right to complain to you and for you to then complain to the Head directly bypassing the teacher or whether she is being overly sensitive to boys and their more active behaviour.

SeasonFinale · 26/06/2021 10:50

What does stand out too though is that your own posts have become increasingly aggressive and you chose to swear at a poster.

Soontobe60 · 26/06/2021 11:07

@DoLallyTapMum

In my experience as a teacher, lots of parents defend their children to the hilt, refusing to accept their children’s behaviour is problematic and continually blaming teachers. I have even had parents claim that their child asking questions such as ‘do you like cock?’ to the teacher shouldn’t be reprimanded because they thought cock meant chicken. I teach secondary school, they most certainly did not think that, but the parent even claimed they thought it meant that too Hmm
This in droves! Only yesterday, a girl who was being quite disruptive when I was dismissing the class (Y5, early pick ups), said she would punch me in the face if I didn't let her go immediately. Her parent wasn’t there to pick her up, it wasn’t the end of the school day. When I pointed out that threatening to punch someone in the face is unacceptable, she said that thats what her mum does. I did tell her mum when she arrived - girl denied it, mum sided with girl and walked off in a strop. All witnessed by several other pupils, who were gobsmacked at the mother!
EmeraldShamrock · 26/06/2021 11:10

Honestly most parents won't know.
I agree. My DS has SN in mainstream, when he was in preschool they called me in daily to complain or report meltdowns.
Mainstream never do it has a very positive impact on me and him.
I don't think he has turned into an angel who stays seated or pays attention, I think teacher deals with it as it happens.

EmeraldShamrock · 26/06/2021 11:12

@Soontobe60 Omg that is Disgraceful.

Mypathtriedtokillme · 26/06/2021 11:23

DD’s school has a new principal was appalled by the kids behaviour.
So has implemented and explained to all of the kids what will and won’t be acceptable behaviour.

It’s a zero tolerance to poor behaviour and bullying, a warning, removal from playground, In school suspension, out of school suspension then asked to leave the school.
It’s been an eye opener as a heap of parents have been called to pick up their children for a suspension for hitting other students. (It’s primary school)

BluebellsGreenbells · 26/06/2021 11:33

teacher or whether she is being overly sensitive to boys and their more active behaviour

It’s not just the boys

Rrrrrrrrr · 26/06/2021 11:46

Some parents like their children to be ‘street wise’ and don’t care if their children bully others.
Some kids rebel against their upbringing.
Worst behaved child in my school was the local Bishop’s daughter who was expelled for fighting, bullying and swearing at teachers!

SecretSpAD · 26/06/2021 12:18

Because people with money know better and its people from low income households just cause trouble

That's funny. I went to a very well known extremely expensive boarding school and was bullied from the day I started to the day I left. I was fat, ginger, non sporty and academic so was a perfect target for the future IT girls.
Their parents didn't give a shit about what their little darlings were doing at school. Hell, half the time they weren't even in the same country. If it looked like the school was actually considering doing something to manage their behaviour then the parents would make a discreet donation to whatever vanity project the head had at the time and it was all quietly forgotten.

CustardyCreams · 26/06/2021 12:23

The behaviour in my DD’s class has gone downhill enormously this year. It sounds really very similar to your experience, OP, except my dd is near the end of primary (also enrolled for a girl’s senior school).

I’ve tried posting about this before under a different name but I got ripped to shreds for judging little children and their well-meaning parents.

There are kids in DD’s class with SEN and kids who are just badly behaved (behave selfishly, nastily or cannot control their impulses etc). It seems like the SEN kids create noise and disruption frequently then the naughty NT kids are unable to concentrate, pile in and cause their own havoc. Mostly the violent and disruptive behaviour is boys, but not exclusively. No idea why. My dd steers clear and hangs out with two quiet girls. Some exceptions. For example, Pre COVID dd was shouted at during lunchtime by a girl and pushed over then kicked whilst lying on the floor. My dd had tried to involve her in her playtime activities as the girl had fallen out with her friends, then my dd annoyed her by insisting that she had lost the majority vote for what game to play next, I expect dd did this in a high-handed way and the other girl exploded.

Most of the boys’ bad behaviour is generally a bit violent, noisy and uncooperative in class. DD avoids them in the playground. In class over the past two years, she has seen desks tipped over, a cupboard door deliberately kicked in, a box thrown at a supply teacher, deliberately pouring water on other kids’ work, work torn up, children FREQUENTLY running out of class screaming and throwing a tantrum, sports equipment hurled over the school fence in anger, doors slammed deliberately on other kids’ ankles or in faces, balls thrown aggressively (broken glasses, suspected broken nose), pushing, shoving, fighting, shouting and refusing to work. Children have been suspended, frequently. Mostly this is the SEN kids but not always. Most days there is disruption.

It is a nice, ofsted outstanding school, with a good reputation and a stable staff. Before COVID you often saw parents cornered by the teacher or the head for an end of day chat.

My dd has slowly grown used to it. She is bored rigid though, as the teacher is so often dealing with behaviour issues.

Last week, the class teacher phoned me as the bully girl who kicked my dd pre-COVID had again been bullying her in class, teacher had forgotten the problems and put them on the same table. She couldn’t name the girl but it was clear who we were discussing, She apologised and said she would move bully girl. Teacher said my dd didn’t want the teacher to reprimand the bully or talk to her parent as “she feels it would only make things worse” and so teacher had agreed to just ignore the problem, on condition my dd tells her if the bullying resumes.

And that’s what it comes to; there is often no point reprimanding or punishing these awful children, as they visit worse punishment on their victims in retaliation. Small things, like dust kicked on shoes, little kicks on the ankle, unkind words, ganging up and constantly chipping away, nasty looks and threatening gestures that create fear. And then I see the bully girl skipping home and she gives me a wide smile. I used to be friends with her mum but mum stopped talking to me when we couldn’t solve the problems. It is just drip, drip, drip.

I asked dd about the situation in her class, she is resigned to it. “They can’t get to me, if I don’t let them. I just tell myself they don’t matter and try to focus on my work. It is hard when there is so much noise.”

SpaceRaiders · 26/06/2021 12:29

@SeasonFinale I apologise if you take my frustration at this situation as aggression. Certain posters have gone out of their way to twist every word I’ve said to suit their own narrative.

To say that protecting my own child’s well being is somehow a slight on other children. I took offence to that. It’s only on MN that you’re meant to make every allowance for other people’s children whilst no consideration is being made for your own child.

Like I said previously, I don’t need to say what actually happened, this incident didn’t directly involve my dc and the circumstances surrounding this incident are somewhat unusual therefore it would be outing for all involved. It isn’t my place to share information about this family, however I am allowed to pass comment on the impact of bullying/ disruptive behaviour on the cohort as a whole. That is what this thread was about.

OP posts:
zingally · 26/06/2021 12:38

I do some tutoring of primary aged kids in the evenings.

One Year 5 boy I have tells me quite often that the naughtiest boy in his class is Nick (name change).

That fact came up in conversation with my tutees mum the other week, and she was horrified! She apparently knows Nick's mum, and thought he was a lovely boy!

BiBabbles · 26/06/2021 13:23

where a parent has found out about some awful things that have been said and kicked off on WhatsApp.

Oh dear, that made my stomach drop - my DDs' school facebook group had one of these kickoffs last autumn, it ended up with police at the school as parents were getting into the "bullies" and other parents' faces. Not all those kids were actually involved in any bullying incidents, but rumours spiraled. It caused a huge uproar, the parent governor stepped down after there were some horrible comments demanding things of her from for not 'dealing with it' (not their job and even if it was, they were vicious), and it was just horrible.

The group now has a policy that any remarks about behaviour at school get the comments locked right away and no one is allowed to name names or anything identifying about a child their own child has had an issue with. No one wants that to happen again, even those of us with the nice, sensitive kids who complain a lot about the naughty ones.

The school should have a policy on the official channels available for parents to use, I don't see any benefit of going to the parents' group.

Surely bullies must be bullies at home too.

Not automatically - they may have no targets at home or not be within a group that encourages that behaviour or just have a very different dynamic at home.

I was a quiet pusharound at home who had meltdowns and did silly things at school (usually in the playground rather than in class). I thought my brother was a quiet sensitive soul. I would have hand on heart said he was a big softy, couldn't cause trouble, and unlike me he wasn't the type to snap or say/do stupid things just because he was upset -- and then he was arrested, expelled, and barred from stepping foot on any school in the county. No idea what my parents knew, but I found it shocking. It was less shocking when I came to know his social circle better, my brother like our father sadly is far too easily and foolishly led by others and he was part of a group that made that behaviour 'cool', unlike at home where what was acceptable was being quiet and out of the way. Neither of us really knew the other and I don't think our parents knew us either and I knew a lot of kids in healthier homes who seemed a very different person at home from when they were around their peers.

your child’s needs doesn’t trump my child’s right to an education.

The school has a responsibility to all of the children, but are pushed to work miracles with a shoestring so sometimes that means certain things are prioritized. It's not ideal, but as the right to education is firmly in law the parents' responsibility, we have to make the gaps for our children and campaign for better with the schools, not point at other children.

BlatantlyNameChanged · 26/06/2021 13:38

All normal standard school stuff unfortunately, including bad language once they're above a certain age

So much this and once they hit year 7 they learn all of the swears like it or not. DS came home near the end of his second or third week of year 7 and asked me, in front of his younger siblings, "what's a cunt? So-and-so on the yard said that him-there is a cunt. I'm not sure what it means. Is it bad?" and that was that particular genie out of the bottle. The worst word he knew prior that was "shit" but now he knows every swear word.

Most of the boys’ bad behaviour is generally a bit violent, noisy and uncooperative in class. DD avoids them in the playground. In class over the past two years, she has seen desks tipped over, a cupboard door deliberately kicked in, a box thrown at a supply teacher, deliberately pouring water on other kids’ work, work torn up, children FREQUENTLY running out of class screaming and throwing a tantrum, sports equipment hurled over the school fence in anger, doors slammed deliberately on other kids’ ankles or in faces, balls thrown aggressively (broken glasses, suspected broken nose), pushing, shoving, fighting, shouting and refusing to work. Children have been suspended, frequently. Mostly this is the SEN kids but not always. Most days there is disruption.

It sounds like the school is particularly bad at behaviour management and isn't meeting the needs of the children with SEN and/or additional needs.

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