To think that parents don’t often know how shitty their dc’s behaviour is at school

[SpaceRaiders]

Dd9 moved to a new school in March. Whilst we’re happy with the school in other areas, she’s found the boys in her class a real challenge. I’ve heard nothing bad things from her since. From disruptive classes, shouting out and swearing to low level bullying. There seems to be the same boys being disruptive but seemingly the entire class gets reprimanded.

I’m guessing the other parents aren’t fully aware what’s going on during school. They certainly will after today’s incident, where a parent has found out about some awful things that have been said and kicked off on WhatsApp. I won’t go into details as it may be outing for all involved. But I’ve been really appalled by what I’m hearing and it’s completely unexpected from the lovely well to do area that we live in. I’d be absolutely appalled if it were my child.

I think most parents are accepting of children with additional needs to a point. Perhaps that point is when those child is being adversely affected.

Their child

He was a little different than the others in his class, was more academic, didn't like football all that much, quite the introvert etc.

That is difficult situation, luckily in dd1's year there was enough of the non football boys to gain a reasonable balance and there was a nice mixed friendship group. The year below were always falling out. Primary is hard because there is no way of getting away from each other especially if it is a small school / year.

It’s not so much that parents think their children are little angels, more that they assume that poor behaviour is dealt with more firmly, teachers are stricter than they actually are, and children are scared of teachers and the consequences of misbehaving.

I take the accusation of "bullying" with a HUGE pinch of salt frankly.

If anyone gets a tiny bit upset (rightly or wrongly), everybody else is accused of being a bully.

I often wonder whether parents have the slightest idea of what their children's teachers know about them, and their shitty behaviour...from what the kids will confide in someone they trust. I'm sure they would be mortified if they knew what I know.

I think you’re right that some parents have no idea how badly behaved their children are in school or how nasty they can be to their peers. Kids are very reluctant to report things so low level things are left to carry on unless teachers notice. What I do know is there are a good cohort of little shits all schools, no matter how good the area. It just is the reality of school life I’m afraid.

I don’t mean to cause any offence but I care more about my own child’s well-being, than I do anyone else’s. Surely every parent feels the same?

You’d probably better home school then.

Part of school is learning to navigate the tricky personalities, and to socialise. And by ‘socialise’, I mean learn the rules of behaving in a group and getting along with a range of personalities.

Two observations:

1. Your DD is clearly the exception to your rule - well behaved at home, and at school, and you know exactly how she behaves when she’s out of sight from you.

1. Whatsapp groups are really not the place to address a child’s behaviour.

I think most parents are accepting of children with additional needs to a point. Perhaps that point is when their child is being adversely affected.

You said it far better than I did. But clearly there are some here who believe that allowances should be made for their dc whatever the costs to others dc. In any event the SEN discussion digressed from my original post.

Some parents either don’t know or choose to ignore.

A good friend of mines youngest son has always been a terror at school. Nothing really bad, but just silly, loud, distributive sort of behaviour, but it was pretty constant. The teacher would make my friend aware, and she complain to the head that her son was being victimised as there was no way her son would behave like that. Thing is my dd2 was in his class and according to her he was the worst behaved kid in the class, even naughtier than the kid people thought of as the naughty kid.

So some parents really do believe that their little darling can do no wrong, they can even deny it when it’s brought to their attention.

@SpaceRaiders

I think most parents are accepting of children with additional needs to a point. Perhaps that point is when their child is being adversely affected.

You said it far better than I did. But clearly there are some here who believe that allowances should be made for their dc whatever the costs to others dc. In any event the SEN discussion digressed from my original post.

And that's possibly my fault. Sorry OP.

I don’t mean to cause any offence but I care more about my own child’s well-being, than I do anyone else’s. Surely every parent feels the same?

You’d probably better home school then.

What parent on earth will put a random child's well-being above their own? As a parent, your first instinct and your first responsibility is your own child!

Bloody hell, if kids can't count on their own parents to have their back, who will.

You at my kids' school OP? Same issue with the same year group - always been some very strong personalities in there (among boys and girls) but the school have now completely lost a hard core group of boys after the school closures, parents focusing on keeping their jobs going and excessive amounts of children left to their own devices.

Ours has come to a head after one boy has punched numerous kids (mainly girls) in the face and shoved them to the ground this week, and we've got a gem in the other class who has been bullying and threatening to strangle one girl (who is a really meek little thing). Some of the mums think their kid is an angel and will be shouting at the teacher for every single sanction received... others simply just don't give a shit - the same kids wreck Cubs meetings, wreck any school events and the parents are just chatting away to their friends ignoring it.

I've had enough - we're looking to move schools as the situation with these boys has just hit the point where I think the only things school will do will be to come down on the entire year group hard and the other kids (like DD who is not an easy kid by any stretch of the imagination but goes no further than being the one caught trying to get the last word in when they're told to stop chatting) are going to be caught in the crossfire. I really am growing quite concerned about how some of them are beginning to threaten girls, make comments about tits repeatedly and this is only the beginning of when the mobile phones start to come into the equation - I've given school time to get these kids back into the school mindset after closures and the situation is getting worse so I'm currently looking around to move mine instead.

We had two mums screaming at each other and hurling personal insults a couple of weeks ago over it.

Incidentally I've spent a lot of time in the school volunteering over the years and know exactly what DD is like in the classroom (if anything she's MORE of a pain in the arse when I'm around and she honestly is just a typical kid of her age now who just sometimes lets her gob get ahead of her braincells).

Mercifully I've managed to never be added to the WhatsApp groups.

I have to say, working in a school is an eye opener. I currently work in a primary and have been surprised at some the behaviour I've witnessed and been on the receiving end of.

There's the usual "kids being kids" behaviour (eg talking in class when they should be listening, friendship fall outs, lying, stealing school property) and then there's the other behaviour which starts to head towards the extreme end (eg punching with a fist, swearing aggressively at others including staff, kids that deliberately target and disrupt others and the teacher during teaching time, intentionally damaging school property, inappropriate sexualised behaviour).

When it starts to head towards the extreme end, that's when it starts to feel unsafe for those involved and has ramifications too. For obvious reasons, that can't continue, but schools have to document all of this activity, try different strategies as advised by the inclusion team, before either a SEN diagnosis is forthcoming and a different setting advised, or a 'managed move' or even SS involved if necessary. All of it will be to help the child, who is the most important person at the centre.

OP, I would ask to talk to the class teacher asking about whole class punishments. I admit I have given these out a couple of times because my observations showed that most of the class were involved (either taking part or encouraging others). I would also add that children tell their version of what happened, and that may not be the whole picture, or they may be economical with the truth (ie their own involvement).

As a teacher I would say that all the classes in my school have changed behaviour wise since lockdown and similarly so have all those of my friends who also work in schools. Behaviour has taken a nose dive across our area and on forums it seems to be a common trend nationally.

greyhound - he was judged as being the product of bad parenting as his ASD was being diagnosed; so he was 'excluded', firstly by parents and then by the little primary school.

Really, it was a long time ago, ds is 19 now and we're both well over the vitriol that some school parents can exert onto a 6 year old. DS is very well-rounded for his age.

The other little 'darlings' are only now discovering that they aren't the centre of the universe and quite naturally, give their parents a ton of shit.

Unfortunately academic standards don't in any way automatically correlate with a kind nurturing environment.

And you Unfortunately can't know what a school is actually like until you are there.

@TheHateIsNotGood

greyhound - he was judged as being the product of bad parenting as his ASD was being diagnosed; so he was 'excluded', firstly by parents and then by the little primary school.

Really, it was a long time ago, ds is 19 now and we're both well over the vitriol that some school parents can exert onto a 6 year old. DS is very well-rounded for his age.

The other little 'darlings' are only now discovering that they aren't the centre of the universe and quite naturally, give their parents a ton of shit.

To be honest, you sound as though you have issues...

In your opinion greyhound, maybe I have; but I just have a long memory, and why would I forget a pack of bitches picking on a disabled kid? Might be the sort of thing you would smoothly forget, but most people don't.

Seems, even when a disabled kid breaks off and does well separately with the full support of his Mother, there'll still be some snappy little thing, biting someone else's heels, too afraid to face their own discepencies.

My big 'issue' is keeping quiet when all I really want to do is shout from the rooftops that all you snooty bitches can stfu coz my lad is doing fine no matter how you picked on him.

But I don't....nighty, night

There are so many possible reasons why this could be happening in the OP's DD's class.

From poor class management
SEND and sanction issues
boys will be boys
Toxic class mix
A few dominant pupils causing issues and the rest following
Parents that just don't believe that their children can do anything wrong
DD deflecting blame because she is not as innocent as she pretends to be
As it seems to be primary an inability to move pupils around to find a better mix
Its a huge list.

*completely unexpected from the lovely well to do area that we live in

performed better academically and has a very nurturing, supportive ethos. It would be fair to expect them to have a handle on this kind of thing*

Or that the parents of the disruptive ones are pillars of the community and chair of the school governors, which can make it pretty tricky for the school.

Most important lesson to learn here is that 'naice' schools in 'naice' areas are just as prone to bullying as any other.

Have you read 'Lord of the Flies'?

To the posters picking apart my use of language, kindly f*off. English isn’t my first language.

Dd could be bending the truth to avoid punishment, I don’t deny that is a possibility. I would find it hard to believe. She is genuinely a very quiet, introverted child who I never have any issues with. She tends to be on the periphery of any friendship issues, so much so that when half the girls in her last class fell out she seemed to take the role of mediator. Ha!..I know what this sounds like!

@CoffeeWithCheese No, it doesn’t sound like our school but very similar dynamic in this class. However yes, to verbal abuse and aggression specifically from boys towards the girls. The girls are excluded from sport, told they’re rubbish, only allowed to field not bat etc. Also a lot of inappropriate behaviour, which as a parent is frankly rather worrying. Thankfully dd has only two years left before hopefully attending a girls senior school.

It’s interesting to see the link between behaviour and lockdowns. There’ve been some very good points raised, from what I’m gleaning from the subsequent conversations from some parents is that this isn’t a new thing. There have been previous reports of bullying in this cohort. Going by the very public response, it seems SOME parents are very defensive at their child being accused. I’ve emailed the head outlining my concerns and I’ve asked for a call with her next week.

@FinallyHere Lesson well and truly learnt…I just wish I wasn’t paying for the privilege!

@SpaceRaiders

I guess if they knew, you’d think the parents would be doing something about it. Surely bullies must be bullies at home too.

I think quite often bullies are bullied at home, that's where they learn to treat other people in that way. And if it's the dad doing the bullying and the mum deals with school, she'll just try to brush everything under the carpet.

YABU. Sadly in my experience, you see a kid playing up at school, think the parents arent aware.... then at some point have a playdate at their home and find that actually some parents tolerate so much bad behaviour at home! DH and I spent some time lately with friends and their kids, in the car on the way home he turned to me and said "I think we are quite strict parents compared to other people aren't we. I hadn't realised". We never thought of ourselves as strict but so many of our friends children run riot and are seemingly never told no.