To think that parents don’t often know how shitty their dc’s behaviour is at school

[SpaceRaiders]

Dd9 moved to a new school in March. Whilst we’re happy with the school in other areas, she’s found the boys in her class a real challenge. I’ve heard nothing bad things from her since. From disruptive classes, shouting out and swearing to low level bullying. There seems to be the same boys being disruptive but seemingly the entire class gets reprimanded.

I’m guessing the other parents aren’t fully aware what’s going on during school. They certainly will after today’s incident, where a parent has found out about some awful things that have been said and kicked off on WhatsApp. I won’t go into details as it may be outing for all involved. But I’ve been really appalled by what I’m hearing and it’s completely unexpected from the lovely well to do area that we live in. I’d be absolutely appalled if it were my child.

I think you're being a little unfair.

I'd expect to be informed if my child was behaving badly at school and would follow it up at home and work with the school to improve behaviour.

But parents aren't omiscient. So it's unreasonable to expect them to know about bad behaviour if the school doesn't tell them.

@BluebellsGreenbells

Why shouldn’t she judge if her child’s education is constantly disrupted?

Parents can’t know fully unless the school speak to parents - some parents don’t give a crap anyway. When they are in school it’s schools problem. Times have changed and so have attitudes towards schools and staff.

Erm clearly because she doesn’t know what strategies the parents may be trying with their child, as she’s not part of their family?!

So judging parents in this situation is based on a negative assumption on the quality of someone’s parenting.

@EmeraldShamrock

Be brave if a shitty child is being rude and disruptive to your DC say it. I'm not on any parent Watsapp groups if I've any issues I message teachers on the school platform. Parent groups from schools are a disaster.

Agreed. The groups are toxic and don’t actually help relationships with the children.

It normally just nicely demonstrates the shitty behaviour of adults.

I don’t think I’m being judgemental at all. If the case is the parents and school are aware then more should be done about it! I don’t send my child to school to deal with low level bullying.

And perhaps “kicking off” wasn’t the correct term. But this parent had every right imo to post a statement on the class group from what I’ve heard from dd of this incident.

My quiet, sensitive, sensible gets-on-with-everyone dd is coming home telling me that this person and that X was swearing at school, that Y child was in tears because someone said a mean thing, that she was prevented from playing a game because W and Z didn’t want her to join in or that X didn’t allow her to sit next to Y at lunch. I don’t generally involve myself with friendship spats between children but this seems a regular occurrence. And certainly coming from never really being concerned about her previously, I am starting to wonder if we made the right choice in school for her.

I agree parents don't know, but often they don't want to know and the school's reporting issues to parents suggests a situation arose that they were not happy with and possibly got out of hand.

Ime parents didn't acknowledge there was an issue until y5 with discipline within the school, until that point I was gaslighted because the parents didn't know and it took a new teacher to the school to admit the class was shocking and utterly awful. Only in Y5 did it all come out and half the class left !

@SpaceRaiders

I’m just very frustrated. I guess you can never truly know a cohort until you’ve joined a school.

My expectation was that as the school performed better academically and has a very nurturing, supportive ethos. It would be fair to expect them to have a handle on this kind of thing, but it seems this particular class of boys is just not very nice.

Or its just a massively unsettled class of young children who've had 15 months of weird and unsettling lives because of a pandemic so are more testing than usual?

Parents often generally don't know how their kids behave anywhere - school, clubs, other parents houses.

Good or bad.

T-here will be so many, many things that you will get pissed off about OP. It could be possible that your dc will be on the right end of the do right/wrong continuum for the next few years too, a few dc fulfill their parent's expectations for quite some time, allegedly.

And yet many a Parent wrings their hands during the teen years and beyond whilst saying "I Parented them so well, where did it all go wrong?".

Little ds was demonized by judgy-pants parents like you - thanks btw, he's quite a resilient young man now - and thankfully doesn't follow the wrong paths that many of his peers now take, as part of their natural rebellion, against their Parents, who thought their dc were the 'better' ones.

All the best OP.

All I'll say is, as a previous primary school teacher, it's unusual (unless there are real behaviour/ASD/ADHD issues underlying or undiagnosed) it's really unusual for a child to behave worse at school than at home.

The number of times I said at parents' evenings "He/She is a lovely/quiet personality" and the parents said, "Are you sure you've got the right child?!" (said with humour).

It's really very unusual for a child with real, measurable, abnormal behaviours that manifest at home to not manifest at school too (even if not immediately, or with a teacher who doesn't know what signs to spot).

So that does rather suggest that, either the behaviour your mention OP isn't quite as bad as you think (or have been led to think) or there's an issue that needs addressing, but that's down to the school/parents/SENCO.

I know that's a hugely general binary choice, and there as many variables within that, but that's essentially the situation you're looking at OP.,

I agree with you OP.

I have had a similar experience recently with DD who is 11 and the boys in her class. DD is very tall 5,5 at 11 abs started her periods at 10. She is very developed for her age.

It seems every day one of the boys makes a comment about her breasts or her bottom and how big they are or asking if the can touch them. The school do what they can but the parents clearly aren't addressing it because it keeps happening.

Little ds was demonized by judgy-pants parents like you

What was he doing to be "demonized"?

@SpaceRaiders

I don’t think I’m being judgemental at all. If the case is the parents and school are aware then more should be done about it! I don’t send my child to school to deal with low level bullying.

And perhaps “kicking off” wasn’t the correct term. But this parent had every right imo to post a statement on the class group from what I’ve heard from dd of this incident.

My quiet, sensitive, sensible gets-on-with-everyone dd is coming home telling me that this person and that X was swearing at school, that Y child was in tears because someone said a mean thing, that she was prevented from playing a game because W and Z didn’t want her to join in or that X didn’t allow her to sit next to Y at lunch. I don’t generally involve myself with friendship spats between children but this seems a regular occurrence. And certainly coming from never really being concerned about her previously, I am starting to wonder if we made the right choice in school for her.

If it was an incident at school, is it not for the parent to speak to the school about and resolve?

Rather than posting in a parents group to ignite a fire of anger towards what is a very young child?

I question their behaviour. If they want to work with the school to resolve an issue they are having then that’s what they should do. Perhaps giving the school an opportunity to speak to the children and parents who may have been impacted is a better approach than posting details of an incident as a blanket message.

Something that surprised me, when I first started working in a primary school, was how frequently the complaints about behaviour came from the families of the main culprits. They were utterly convinced that their own child was an innocent bystander.

Our school doesn't do 'whole class punishments' for the behaviour of a few. The Head would be very unhappy with any member of staff who tried such a tactic. What I would say though is that sometimes there are more children involved in an incident than you might think.

For example, I've heard children complaining that a group of them had been punished because two boys had been fighting and how it was all so unfair. It then transpires that when the fighting started the rest of the group had crowded round the boys and egged them on even further. So not quite the picture they'd originally painted.

As a general rule, parents are informed if something has happened in class. Sometimes the behaviour is a sign that a child needs further support or different strategies. Sometimes it's a reaction to other things going on in their lives. Being out of school for extended periods of time also hasn't helped.

There will be a lot going on behind the scenes that you and your DD will be entirely unaware of.

Hmm
This is not a black and white issue but I get what you are saying. Firstly, I am a teacher and I can tell you that school DO inform parents of poor behaviour. I also know that the vast majority of parents whose children behave poorly DO care (in fact, I honestly can say that I have only met very very few who don't). In my experience, the reason why the parents do nothing about the poor behaviour is because they don't know HOW. This is for a variety of reasons: the parent was parented poorly themselves so they don't have a model of good parenting to fall back on; the parent is struggling or overwhelmed for a variety of reasons and cannot give the time or their best selves to resolve the situation; the child might have SEN that is unaddressed or a mental health problem that is unaddressed and causing them to behave poorly towards peers. These parents, I can work with. It's the ones who blame everyone else for their child's behaviour or who think that disciplining their child will somehow squash their 'spirit' Those are the few who appear not to care and are impossible to work with. I wonder what the reasons are in your situation OP? Because what you describe is not OK.

Yes, it’s common.

Why would you assume this: “But I’ve been really appalled by what I’m hearing and it’s completely unexpected from the lovely well to do area that we live in.” Wealthy children never misbehave? Puurrrlleeasseeee. Absolutely well to do parents have more time and resources to help their children develop and to role model good behavior. Do they do this? Sometimes, sometimes not. Do they have a whopping great sense of entitlement? Sometimes, sometimes not. I say this as a wealthy parent who went to a highly competitive academic school full of wealthy children living in a well to do neighborhood. The kids with the biggest drug problems just had the biggest allowances. Poor parenting doesn’t have financial boundaries, just less of an excuse if you’re well off.

I refuse to accept that months of homeschooling and covid restrictions turns children into bullies. I do however accept that perhaps parents don’t always hear about every incident at school and therefore are unable to step in. But I’d certainly would want to know, in fact I’d be mortified!

I must admit dd has a strong sense of justice. If something is unfair she will say something about it to me. Do I think my dd is perfect? Absolutely not! She can be naughty and makes mistakes much like other children. But I can hand on heart say she’s the most easy going, sweet child that I’m surprised she’s having such a hard time in that class.

It’s kind of hilarious you think you’re not being judgmental.

@SpaceRaiders

I refuse to accept that months of homeschooling and covid restrictions turns children into bullies. I do however accept that perhaps parents don’t always hear about every incident at school and therefore are unable to step in. But I’d certainly would want to know, in fact I’d be mortified!

I must admit dd has a strong sense of justice. If something is unfair she will say something about it to me. Do I think my dd is perfect? Absolutely not! She can be naughty and makes mistakes much like other children. But I can hand on heart say she’s the most easy going, sweet child that I’m surprised she’s having such a hard time in that class.

Really? You refuse to accept that a period of time where there has been a considerable increase in domestic violence, uncertainty and fear, and for many people poverty, on top of a lack of socialisation for children could be manifesting in negative behaviours? (And once bullying happens in a class/peer group it’s quite common for there to be a little burst of it - especially with young children)

You’re not wrong, OP. I work in a secondary school and behaviour has been shocking since the lockdowns. I wish we had body cams, parents just have no idea what their children are really like in school.

@SpaceRaiders

I guess if they knew, you’d think the parents would be doing something about it. Surely bullies must be bullies at home too.

Not necessarily, my ds is absolutely horrendous at home, like has me in tears on a regular basis (ASD), at school he is a bit silly, and very low level disruption (hangs off the side of his chair, fidgets etc) but none of the behaviour we see at home.

The covid situation hasn't helped but some years just gel better than others, and also perception, I have images of a child shouting F.Off in the middle of the classroom, they may just have said "oh poo"

@PenOrPencil

You’re not wrong, OP. I work in a secondary school and behaviour has been shocking since the lockdowns. I wish we had body cams, parents just have no idea what their children are really like in school.

The OP seems to think lockdown is nothing to do with it...

@TheHateIsNotGood

T-here will be so many, many things that you will get pissed off about OP. It could be possible that your dc will be on the right end of the do right/wrong continuum for the next few years too, a few dc fulfill their parent's expectations for quite some time, allegedly.

And yet many a Parent wrings their hands during the teen years and beyond whilst saying "I Parented them so well, where did it all go wrong?".

Little ds was demonized by judgy-pants parents like you - thanks btw, he's quite a resilient young man now - and thankfully doesn't follow the wrong paths that many of his peers now take, as part of their natural rebellion, against their Parents, who thought their dc were the 'better' ones.

All the best OP.

i don't think it's fair to refer to the OP as 'judgy pants' - she is only expressing concern about what her dd is coming home and telling her. Children see things. Sometimes children see and hear things that concern them. They will then tell their parents about these things. In my 20 years as a teacher I have seen most behaviours in the classroom including some very violent and aggressive behaviours. Whilst my heart goes out to the child who is so stressed and anxious that they tip tables, shout swearwords, slam doors and rip up their work, the parents of the other children have a right to be concerned about the effect on their own children. We try very hard in schools to mitigate this so that the child in question isn't demonised but it's really hard when the behaviour is so public, from the same child and affects the learning of the others.

Is it just the boys in the class who are a problem, OP? Or are the girls difficult as well?

DS2 (8) has been on the waiting list for ASD/ADHD assessment since 2019. I know he can be a little shit at school but both myself and the school are struggling to manage his behaviour.

But thanks for making me feel even worse about it - I appreciate it.