AIBU to think affairs are more common than we think

[YukiCarrot]

Just reading about Matt Hancock in the news, was pretty shocked.

This, coupled with some affairs I know of IRL has really rattled me, my trust in men is at an all time low. (i know women have affairs to!)

Has your DP/DH had an affair? Do you know of people who have?

Many are using the prevalence of adultery to attack the practice of marriage and monogamy. Most wedding vows include the promise to 'forsake all others'. If a person is not willing to do this they can either not get married or they can remove the expectation of fidelity from their vows. This would involve an open discussion and agreement with their fiancé that they were both free to sleep with other people after the wedding.

It would be interesting to find out whether people who commit adultery after reaching an understanding that they were in an exclusive marriage or relationship would be ok with their spouse/partner doing the same? If they were not willing to tolerate that same behaviour from their spouse/partner, then this suggests that monogamy is not the problem.

@BlueBellsArePretty

I think you've got this back to front: I think a lot of people are simply pointing out that the prevalence of affairs points to something inherently unsustainable in the institution of marriage.

I think if people are prepared to go through the rigmarole of marriage and the commitment then they should be prepared to see it through, including "forsaking all others".

But I don't think "forsaking all others" for the duration of an entire lifetime is practical or desirable for most people. It certainly wouldn't be for me. And with that in mind I'm suggesting that the laws and social systems we have in place which are designed to protect women looking after children (which is essentially what marriage is for) should be reframed so they no longer stipulate monogamy. Because making monogamy, which is very difficult and arguably not appropriate for most people, the cornerstone of financial security is unworkable and creates more problems than it solves.

@OhWhyNot

Do you really think a Tory is more likely to have an affair than others from a different political party

This. It's laughable that someone would think a Tory is more likely to have an affair than any other particular party. Just an excuse to have a bash at the Tories. I am not a fan of them, but the deliberate bashing for the sake of it makes people look pathetic.

As for Matt Hancock - I am not shocked. He's a man in power, and women are attracted to this, no matter what they look like. And he is not exactly awful looking.

Affairs ARE very common, and especially in the workplace, and as a pp said earlier, the mistress is often less attractive physically than the wife.

I have known many men have affairs, and the 'mistress' is not a patch on the wife. I think some men just like a bit of extra-marital shagging and aren't bothered what said mistress looks like. (Or if she is particularly interesting or appealing in other ways.) Probably explains why men rarely leave their wife, because the mistress is not up-to-scratch in many ways. He just wants her for an extra-marital fuck.

And I talk about married men having affairs, (and not married women who do,) because in 90% of cases, I have only even known men have affairs, not women. And if you wonder who the married men (I have known) are having affairs with, they are having affairs with single women/divorced women...

(And yeah I know married women have affairs too, but as I say, in my experience/in my life, it's generally only married MEN who have affairs.)

I do agree with a few posters on here though, that it's a ridiculous notion really, to expect to stay with one person all your life. It works for some people, but for many it doesn't. The person you meet at 18-25 y.o. ish, is not the same person at 35 or 40 or 50. A couple grows apart sometimes, and you become incompatible.

And familiarity breeds contempt. After so many years together, your husband/wife can becoming super irritating and irksome, and you no longer have anything in common. That said, even if you get with someone else, there's no guarantee the new partner will be any better or different. At the end of the day, men are all the same, and so are women really. All the same shit will resurface eventually...

@Mountainpika

Long, happy marriages can happen. We've been together nearly 50 years. We're fortunate that we met the right person at the right time in our lives.

This. Having said all of what I said, long, happy marriages do exist. They're less common than unhappy marriages and divorces, but they do exist. Me and my DH have been together 31 years (married 28,) and we are very happy.

Yeah there have been bumps in the road, and we still have spats occasionally, but 95% of the time, we are happy, we have loads in common, we are deeply in love, and we are best friends.

I also know half a dozen other couples married 30-40 years who are still going strong, and a few who have been married 50+ years who are still going strong too.

I think we are the exception rather than the rule in our generation though (born mid to late 1960s, married early to mid 1990s,) because many couples I know who met around the time we did, and married around the same time, have split up and divorced. Some of them within 10 years of marrying, and some more recently, like only 5 to 8 years ago...

@BlueBellsArePretty

Many are using the prevalence of adultery to attack the practice of marriage and monogamy. Most wedding vows include the promise to 'forsake all others'. If a person is not willing to do this they can either not get married or they can remove the expectation of fidelity from their vows. This would involve an open discussion and agreement with their fiancé that they were both free to sleep with other people after the wedding.

It would be interesting to find out whether people who commit adultery after reaching an understanding that they were in an exclusive marriage or relationship would be ok with their spouse/partner doing the same? If they were not willing to tolerate that same behaviour from their spouse/partner, then this suggests that monogamy is not the problem.

I think that's the "problem". I think people do make the vows expecting to remain faithful, but human nature doesn't work.like that.

I wouldn't have "tolerated" it when I was young and idealistic, but now although it would undoubtedly change things, I think I'd have a level of understanding.

I think most people get married when they are still in the honeymoon period of the relationship when many of us have thought that person is the only person that they would ever want to be with you believe at that point in time there is no one else

And then well life moved on and feelings change

That is, I'd understand how it happens. In a "serial monogamy" situation, it would still mean it was time for the relationship to end.

I imagine it's like many social things where there are pockets of it being very, very common and other pockets of it being rare with a lot of factors involved. Some part individual personality/character, many parts interpersonal or environmental factors. I agree the bigger issue is the deceit and the thrill of fooling someone that is too often part of affairs rather than falling for someone else or the physical intimacy -- there is a long history of 'arrangements', though how well they worked in the long-term is as questionable as monogamy.

My spouse hasn't had an affair to my knowledge, though when we first started dating I was dating multiple people. I think that while many aspects of society seem to encourage or at least romanticise it, rushing into being monogamous, especially for young adults as we were, does more harm than good. I think there are benefits to non-exclusive dating for a significant period, maybe years when talking teenage dating, before moving into a monogamous relationship - for that move to be something considered and discussed rather than how it is sometimes assumed based on time or what terms someone uses for you or because someone feels it.

Some of my family member had affairs, but I'm not aware of full details or even how much of that was true or just rumour. I do remember an argument with one of my father's girlfriends who didn't like the non-exclusive dating or my bisexuality that she had little room to talk about what I was doing while she shared a bed with a still married man (divorce is expensive so my separated parents waited until one of them wanted to remarry). I actually didn't care about that, I was happy for his new relationships if they made him happy as long as his partners didn't think shagging my father meant they were a parent to me - another thing I don't think should be rushed, new partners taking on parental roles. There are a lot of social systems that get tied up with sex that may not be the best factor to judge commitment.

I'm another one in a long happy marriage of 31 years. We have no children, I wonder if that makes a difference?

When I was working in an office in the 80s, affairs were rife. We all knew who was with who, They think they are being to clever, hiding it, but really they don't realise that it is just so obvious!

I once had a 'romantic' encounter with a colleague at lunchtime, went back to the office as cool as anything, then later in the afternoon found I had a large twig in my hair!!! I never knew if anyone had noticed.

There might be so much less stress, heartache and expense if people expected to have, for example, starter relationships in their 20s, a family-raising relationship in their 30s and 40s, then the freedom and flexibility in later life to date or have other long term relationships

I think this is pretty much unworkable. I don't think many women would be happy to have children with a man who makes it clear from day one that he'll leave her once the youngest grows up.

I think it's more common than people think for both sexes, particularly nowadays with mobile phones and social media.
As far as I'm aware, my husband hasn't cheated, however, nothing is guaranteed in life.
I've never cheated, simply because one man gives me a big enough headache, two would make it completely explode.
To be fair, I don't know how people find the time or the energy.
What I do know is, if Hancock's own wife can't trust him, then how can we?

It's laughable that someone would think a Tory is more likely to have an affair than any other particular party.

I may be misremembering, but isn't there a thing about Tories more likely to have (or be pulled apart in the media for) sexual scandals while Labour it's financial ones. I remember one joke that had the scandals of Tories, Labour, and Lib Dems, but I can't remember it.

I don't think it's entirely true, though it may be that the media focuses on what seems to contrast with a party's values (so family values for Tories which means the media hounds their sex scandals) which may be why it's an association some have - along with an excuse for Tory bashing.

@ZoeCM

There might be so much less stress, heartache and expense if people expected to have, for example, starter relationships in their 20s, a family-raising relationship in their 30s and 40s, then the freedom and flexibility in later life to date or have other long term relationships

I think this is pretty much unworkable. I don't think many women would be happy to have children with a man who makes it clear from day one that he'll leave her once the youngest grows up.

It would require both partners to maintian financial independence, which would be a major change of mindset for a lot of people, that is certainly true, but I doubt it would stop women wanting children.

All of this is why I prefer the idea of polyamory.

I was cheated on and the biggest issue for me was the dishonesty/lying/breaking trust. Especially when it's over a long period and it makes you question if any part of your relationship was real.

Whereas my current partner was honest years before we ever got together, that he had multiple partners (and so did his partners, it's not a harem type situation). So we don't have to hide if we find someone else attractive, in fact we talk about it, and support it. And it also weeds out those who like the secrecy etc.

It's not impossible to cheat, still, and it brings it's own complex ways to mess things up, so I'm not going to pretend it's a utopian way of having relationships. It works for me though.

It would require both partners to maintian financial independence, which would be a major change of mindset for a lot of people, that is certainly true, but I doubt it would stop women wanting children.

Yes, but women would generally choose to have children with men who tell them they want to be with them for life. I don't think most women would just shrug and say, "No man loves me enough to want to stay with me for life, so I'll just settle for one who outright admits he'll leave once the kids have grown up." Women with very low self-esteem would accept that, but others would wait until they found men who told them they wanted to grow old with them (whether it was true or not). Those men wouldn't disappear. And we'd end up back where we started.

It would require both partners to maintian financial independence, which would be a major change of mindset for a lot of people, that is certainly true, but I doubt it would stop women wanting children.

Financial independence for women is the key to it IMHO. It largely removes the necessity for marriage anyway and means that women who do get married are protected if they want to leave or get left. I think combining finances with someone is insanity.

@CounsellorTroi

I'm another one in a long happy marriage of 31 years. We have no children, I wonder if that makes a difference?

Not necessarily no. We have 2. And the other couples I know who have been together 30+ years, all have children.

Sure, you can be happy without them, but it's a myth that couples without children are happier/stronger/will last longer. And a myth peddled by child-free couples.

They think (some of them) that your life is over when you have kids, and you can't POSSIBLY have a happy marriage or a fun-filled life, and do loads of things, and visit lots of places when you have kids. They are wrong.

Me and DH actually did much more in our lives (when our kids lived at home,) than the 3 or 4 child free people/couples we know. We had a wonderful life with them, when they lived at home, and did LOTS of things with them, including visiting a dozen different countries with them.... (We still do lots now too... But with just the two of us...)

As I say, it's a myth that child free couples are happier and stronger than couples with children.

@Gwenhwyfar

"Often the thrill of the "trick", getting one over on the faithful spouse, is part of the fun for the cheater."

Esther Perel says illicit affairs happen even in open/polyamorous relationships.

Yep, sadly, that doesn't surprise me at all.

It isn't about monogamy vs polyamory...it's about jerks, disrespect and contempt for those closest.

*Can understand we’re all human and can make mistakes, but cheaters seldom do the decent thing and end the relationship properly, theres usually a lot of gas lighting and manipulation that accompanies it, so it’s not just a case of a decent person making a one off bad decision.

Sometimes the cheater doesn't actually want to end the relationship, just to have their cake and eat it for as long as they can get away with it.*

My point is in response to posters trying to make out that even decent people can cheat, I’ve never heard of a cheat acting decently about it. Instead you get cake and eat it set up, or a lot of stringing along while cheater agonises over who to pick. That’s not the behaviour of a good human being.
I would judge it as a a huge character failing (cowardice) and be wary of getting involved with anyone that had previously cheated

As far as I’m aware my dh hasn’t had an affair. We have a brilliant relationship, have our emotional/sexual needs met etc and although I’d like to think he wouldn’t cheat and have no reason not to trust him, I suppose no one ever really knows what’ll happen down the line.

Oh and fwiw out of all of mine and dh’s “coupled” friends from over the years there is only us and one other couple still together. The rest have separated because one of them cheated. I must admit that scared me a little when my dh pointed it out.

But I don't think "forsaking all others" for the duration of an entire lifetime is practical or desirable for most people. It certainly wouldn't be for me.
Go out and find someone with similar views to yourself and marry them, cheating is a shitty way to treat another human being and we don’t need society restructuring to accommodate the needs of selfish bastards, that think of only their own needs.
I don’t think cheating is common place, it not unusual, but it certainly not common place with everyone at it.
Affairs in workplaces are notable, because they are usually not that common. Certainly not in the places I have worked in.

Human beings are complex creatures and nothing is ever black and white. My sister had an affair with a work colleague, he was a married father of 5! I make no excuses for her and have always been deeply disgusted with her for getting involved with a married man but they are still together 16 years later.
I personally don’t condone affairs and would be devastated if my husband had an affair. I have always said if he wants to leave me then leave but please don’t destroy my nor our kids souls by cheating. But that’s the problem with most affairs, most aren’t looking for anything long term, they are looking for a quick thrill from their mundane lives, most affair partners don’t end up together. It’s like going on a glorious holiday, loving it so much that you sell up and move there and realise it’s the same shit life as you had before just a different scenery which you soon bore of.

I think they are quite common but not the norm

I disagree that its mostly men. They might have more one night stands but it's the women who get more deeply involved in full blown ones.