To be saddened but unsurprised by Britney Spears' testimony?

[plodalong12]

Listening to this and hearing Britney talk about the control of her father reminded me of watching the documentary Amy and I feel the same sort of Mitch Winehouse/Amy Winehouse vibe and we all know how that ended.

Someone is either too mentally ill to be in control of their own life or they are deemed well enough to be a judge on The X Factor, do a four-year Vegas live show followed immediately by a world tour. It can't be both.

"I haven't done anything in the world to deserve this treatment. It's not okay to force me to do anything I don't want to do"

I haven't read the entire thread. However it didn't occur to me that Mitch Winehouse was 'that' sort of parent. He struck me as a good dad who supported his daughter in what ever she decided to do; life would have been easier had Amy (whom I admired) chosen to be a nurse or an accountant but she didn't.

He did the best he could, nobody is perfect and with hindsight we can think of ways that would have been better; he would not have been able to think like that earlier on. We should not malign him.

@Awalkintime

I think psychiatry is abusive and that all the labels - bipolar, PBD is all crap and they're all labels for women who have suffered trauma. They're doped up and the trauma never dealt with.

There is a new book by Dr Jessica Taylor called Sexy by Psycho which is all about how psychiatrists label women as mentally unwell when they are not.

I agree that women are held to different standards in our society.

Plenty of men get dx'd with BiPolar, BPD etc too though.

I hope the judge has enough evidence to release her from this Conservatorship (or at least get her Dad well away from it) if she is indeed not needing any of these very severe restrictions on her life.

And, of course, any MH issues may have been caused by her unusual childhood and early fame. Plenty of child stars go on to suffer horribly sadly.

AWalkInTime "Ill-informed or just reading different things? Given the Royal College of Psychiatrics only 2 days ago said they wondered if depression was patients just being stubborn"

Do you have a link for this please?

I think it’s very telling that he allows his daughter an allowance which is significantly less than what he pays himself.

@Ostara212

AWalkInTime "Ill-informed or just reading different things? Given the Royal College of Psychiatrics only 2 days ago said they wondered if depression was patients just being stubborn"

Do you have a link for this please?

Yes, not sure if this has worked or not.

I don't know if I've misinterpreted here but I've read @Awalkintime's comments to mean that many/all people with trauma are given a convenient label, with the trauma disregarded.

From what I can make of it this is Jessica Taylor's position as well. Thinking of symptoms I had from when I had cPTSD (now successfully treated with EMDR), I was seriously ill. I didn't know how to recognise a flashback; it's taken decades to understand what these were. One of the scariest symptoms was severe short-term memory loss: so severe I really thought I had early-onset dementia and I was terrified. If Spears is traumatised in this way it makes complete sense to me that her 'controllers', if that's what they are, would claim the same thing of her.

Since the treatment I've been better than I've ever been. I think I've had cPTSD since the age of about 3, I never recognised it; how do you, when it's something you've been carrying your entire life? It becomes normal. It's only now I'm free of it that I can see what a debilitating effect it had. The fact that I've been able to build a good life, good career and family for myself is well-nigh incredible, and I'm not ashamed of being proud of that fact.

I'm with Jessica Taylor: in situations like this being pathologised, medicated etc, should be a national scandal. I was never mentally ill. I'm not unbalanced, I'm the very antithesis of that. I sustained a repeated series of psychological injuries. I now see that having had access to the right kind of help (not least the ability to afford it) makes me very privileged indeed. It shouldn't have to be that way, and God help those in a different position.

Last fact: she's female. Females disproportionately experience abuse, trauma and sexual trauma at the hands of men, all known causes of PTSD. If you put a label on someone questioning their mental health, you deny them their voice. People cease to take them seriously. How similar is this to the days of yore when a husband could declare a wife mad and have her shut in an asylum if he wanted to replace her with a newer model?

This is the 21st century equivalent. The story is beyond horrible and it makes me shudder even reading about it.

Did you see the documentary a couple of months ago, very interesting, watch it on catch up. Basically once you get put on conservativeship in USA it’s hard get out of, it’s all money making, if it’s not her dad the court can order and 99.9% do someone else to look after you. It’s not just about the father anymore, there are a lot of people making money out of Britney it’s heartbreaking, poor girl. She came from very simple beginnings, she has been used.

It isn't up to fans to say that she is capable of running her own life and money. She has serious mental health issues that much is clear. Having fans argue that her dad is just in in for the money is sad because they have no idea of the extent of her mental health issues. If you take a look at her Instagram it doesn't take a genius to work out that her mental health isn't great. She does not have custody of her sons because she is not fit enough to care for them so maybe having her IUD in is a blessing? Would it not be more pertinent for her to focus on her existing children but then does anyone have the right to force contraception on you? I'm inclined to think not.

There are a lot of hangers on around her as there always is with the vulnerable and rich. Who's to say the boyfriend isn't taking advantage? I remember dome years ago Amanda Bo'ness came out with all sorts about her family trying to control her, they didn't want her dead in a ditch somewhere so stepped in. Surely all good parents would do that? I don't know what the answer is but hope Britney gets the help she needs.

*Amanda Bynes

Awalkintime
That precise tweet is not there
I wonder if it was deleted because live tweeter got the context wrong
Live tweeting from events is such a rotten job

Looking at the stream from the event, I don't think it means anything sinister

I agree with a lot of what is being said on this thread and don't get me started on the DSM! 😂

@Sceptre86

It isn't up to fans to say that she is capable of running her own life and money. She has serious mental health issues that much is clear. Having fans argue that her dad is just in in for the money is sad because they have no idea of the extent of her mental health issues. If you take a look at her Instagram it doesn't take a genius to work out that her mental health isn't great. She does not have custody of her sons because she is not fit enough to care for them so maybe having her IUD in is a blessing? Would it not be more pertinent for her to focus on her existing children but then does anyone have the right to force contraception on you? I'm inclined to think not.

There are a lot of hangers on around her as there always is with the vulnerable and rich. Who's to say the boyfriend isn't taking advantage? I remember dome years ago Amanda Bo'ness came out with all sorts about her family trying to control her, they didn't want her dead in a ditch somewhere so stepped in. Surely all good parents would do that? I don't know what the answer is but hope Britney gets the help she needs.

There's a discussion on the Feminism board so some repetition but I very much doubt she runs her own social media.

You need to watch the documentary, her dad may have started off with good intentions but the people involved in this aren’t doing it for good intentions, it’s to make money

I don't think she is capable of looking after herself. Nor do I think her dad should be in charge of the conservatorship.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

I don't know if I've misinterpreted here but I've read @Awalkintime's comments to mean that many/all people with trauma are given a convenient label, with the trauma disregarded.

From what I can make of it this is Jessica Taylor's position as well. Thinking of symptoms I had from when I had cPTSD (now successfully treated with EMDR), I was seriously ill. I didn't know how to recognise a flashback; it's taken decades to understand what these were. One of the scariest symptoms was severe short-term memory loss: so severe I really thought I had early-onset dementia and I was terrified. If Spears is traumatised in this way it makes complete sense to me that her 'controllers', if that's what they are, would claim the same thing of her.

Since the treatment I've been better than I've ever been. I think I've had cPTSD since the age of about 3, I never recognised it; how do you, when it's something you've been carrying your entire life? It becomes normal. It's only now I'm free of it that I can see what a debilitating effect it had. The fact that I've been able to build a good life, good career and family for myself is well-nigh incredible, and I'm not ashamed of being proud of that fact.

I'm with Jessica Taylor: in situations like this being pathologised, medicated etc, should be a national scandal. I was never mentally ill. I'm not unbalanced, I'm the very antithesis of that. I sustained a repeated series of psychological injuries. I now see that having had access to the right kind of help (not least the ability to afford it) makes me very privileged indeed. It shouldn't have to be that way, and God help those in a different position.

Last fact: she's female. Females disproportionately experience abuse, trauma and sexual trauma at the hands of men, all known causes of PTSD. If you put a label on someone questioning their mental health, you deny them their voice. People cease to take them seriously. How similar is this to the days of yore when a husband could declare a wife mad and have her shut in an asylum if he wanted to replace her with a newer model?

This is the 21st century equivalent. The story is beyond horrible and it makes me shudder even reading about it.

Completely agree and so similar to those days in the past. Jessica has shown we've not moved on far from that declaration of a mad wife given that things like BPD are exactly the same thing as 'hysteria' back in the day. Same criteria for diagnosis for both.

If she had early onset dementia ,she would more than likely have died by now ,it's a progressive disease ,she wouldn't be able to travel the world and do tours .

Her testimony is rambling. It doesn't read like someone with good life skills, tbh. Most such people don't have someone else controlling their lives, obviously. The issue is how much harm she could do to self due to her fortune/fame.

What is her lawyer's argument for saying she shouldn't be evaluated -- that the conservatorship should be lifted without evaluation first? She thinks the evaluation is a test she can't pass. Why not?

Mild Psychosis & dementia can look a lot like each other clinically, btw. It's usually age & brain scans that distinguishes them.

@Sceptre86

It isn't up to fans to say that she is capable of running her own life and money. She has serious mental health issues that much is clear. Having fans argue that her dad is just in in for the money is sad because they have no idea of the extent of her mental health issues. If you take a look at her Instagram it doesn't take a genius to work out that her mental health isn't great. She does not have custody of her sons because she is not fit enough to care for them so maybe having her IUD in is a blessing? Would it not be more pertinent for her to focus on her existing children but then does anyone have the right to force contraception on you? I'm inclined to think not.

There are a lot of hangers on around her as there always is with the vulnerable and rich. Who's to say the boyfriend isn't taking advantage? I remember dome years ago Amanda Bo'ness came out with all sorts about her family trying to control her, they didn't want her dead in a ditch somewhere so stepped in. Surely all good parents would do that? I don't know what the answer is but hope Britney gets the help she needs.

No one has the right to force contraception on anyone, body autonomy exists for a reason. Her father paid himself more money that he allowed her, out of her own money. He only wants the money that comes with controlling her. He needs to be removed from it. Her sister, mum and dad all profit from her.

If you experienced a physical trauma and broke your arm, you would say on my arm isn’t really broken, it was just trauma.

If you got diabetes from a poor diet combined with genetic risk factors, you wouldn’t say, oh I won’t bother with insulin, my diabetes is a false classification that was largely due to environmental risk, therefore it does not exist.

*wouldn’t say

I saw a program years ago about this, its shockingly scarey that people who you've never met can be put in charge of your life. I think one of the people in the documentary I saw was very rich, his great niece that he'd never met was put in charge of him and she put him in a home, had all access to his money and his wife was kicked out of their home. His wife wasn't even allowed to see him either. Absolutely shocking

She has serious mental health issues that much is clear. Having fans argue that her dad is just in in for the money is sad because they have no idea of the extent of her mental health issues. If you take a look at her Instagram it doesn't take a genius to work out that her mental health isn't great. She does not have custody of her sons because she is not fit enough to care for them so maybe having her IUD in is a blessing? Would it not be more pertinent for her to focus on her existing children but then does anyone have the right to force contraception on you? I'm inclined to think not

How can you say “it is clear she has serious mental health issues” based on their Instagram feed?!

If the fans have no idea of extent of her mental health issues, then neither do you.

13 years of financial and medical abuse would likely have an impact on my Instagram feed, if I had one....

How one lives one life, how one spends one’s money, how much time or love one gives to one’s kids, should never be a reason to let another individual have complete and total control over you, with the backing of the state. This is America, not N. Korea.

If someone is not mentally fit enough to parent responsibly? The kids live with someone else and time together is supervised.

However, if someone is not mentally fit enough to manage their own finances? No one will suffer, only that person. They will eventually run out of money and the state will have to step in to provide a basic level of financial support. Not great, by any means, but their is a mechanism for this.

This is all about money.

ATieLikeRichardGere
I get what you are trying to say, but I dont think its comparable.

In mental health its more like oh Britney says she does have a broken arm - get the casts out. Oh Britney says she doesn't have a broken arm. Well that means she definitely does! Get the cast & the slings out.

I think partly the rambling may be because she was so excited to finally get everything out and have ‘her say’.
She needs to sit down with independent people and write it down clearly.

@Awalkintime as a severe ocd sufferer initially triggered by csa I couldn't agree more

I've had tons of therapy, medications, cbt, etc etc etc and if anything I am worse!

NOBODY has addressed the trauma - NOBODY

One lovely lady at a charity I spoke with psychologist but not psychiatrist said she thought more likely if anything I had complex ptsd - which requires totally different approach

I cannot get any hcps to listen to me and have (quelle surprise) now been labelled as "unwilling to engage with treatment" and had the keyworker aspect withheld from me for almost 2 years.

I have a nhs psychologist I am supposed to have sessions with weekly but it's closer to monthly sometimes less

I'm housebound and basically living in one room for 4 years.

Absolutely horrifying how unsupported abused and further traumatised Britney has been

Given how her father is with her (controlling possessive) I would not be at all surprised to learn he had visited trauma on her too

I agree - either she is severely unwell and should therefore be allowed to rest and recover and receive quality treatment OR she is fully healthy and able to work under intense conditions that most healthy people would struggle with - in which case she has the right to live her life autonomously

It cannot be both!

The worst thing that can happen to a person is not imprisonment per se it's being labelled mentally ill.

As soon as you have that dx anything and everything else about you is seen in that prism

I've had visible symptoms of physical illness (rashes etc) ignored/dismissed because I am dx mentally ill and this has been done by hcps

There is widespread and accepted discrimination in all aspects of life towards the mentally ill

Many conditions are also completely unrelated to trauma.

Impossible to know this for certain given:

People who've experienced trauma don't always disclose in fact frequently don't

People who've suffered trauma don't always consciously remember they have especially if it happened at a particularly young age

Everything in the USA is about money! It's a capitalist society in the extreme everything is monetised, all govt decisions and policies are based primarily on money!

Britney absolutely needs to be assessed and treated independently from anyone having a vested interest in keeping her controlled by others with clear financial motivations to do so

Do change.org petitions ever actually achieve change? I'll admit I haven't seen evidence of such. I sign official govt petitions as there are rules as to how these are dealt with.

I'd love to lend Britney my support in a way that would actually make a difference but it's hard to see how to do so given it's a whole other continent etc

I'm wondering if there are any legal charities in the states (as she seemingly cannot hire or pay for lawyers) that would be interested in taking up the case - perhaps as a test case for others less well known being treated this way?

Why isn't her father's capacity to be a conservator being examined?

He's a Rich (albeit her money) white man - need more be said?!

but I've seen it recur down generations.

As does abuse

If you put a label on someone questioning their mental health, you deny them their voice. People cease to take them seriously.

Absolutely - and it's LONG been a way to discredit victims of abuse

@LemonSwan

I wasn’t actually talking about Britney. I was continuing the side discussion about whether mental illness labels are real or not. Some seem to have argued that it’s all just trauma and a means of oppression.

I don’t know how mentally ill Britney might or might not be, but regardless I think the conservatorship is extremely wrong!