To be saddened but unsurprised by Britney Spears' testimony?

[plodalong12]

Listening to this and hearing Britney talk about the control of her father reminded me of watching the documentary Amy and I feel the same sort of Mitch Winehouse/Amy Winehouse vibe and we all know how that ended.

Someone is either too mentally ill to be in control of their own life or they are deemed well enough to be a judge on The X Factor, do a four-year Vegas live show followed immediately by a world tour. It can't be both.

"I haven't done anything in the world to deserve this treatment. It's not okay to force me to do anything I don't want to do"

@diddl

"She is basically a slave , a money making machine for those who control her . Poor poor woman"

It does seem that way doesn't it?

I would have thought that she already had someone dealing with bills, expenses etc.

The need to strip her of any autonomy then pay yourself!!

It really is hard to comprehend.

It's staggering how different the law is here from the US.

Someone better educated in this area than me commented earlier that in the UK the person being looked after is given the least restrictive option to keep them safe and well. Over there it seems that she's been given the most restrictive with no thought to giving her the independence to even go for a coffee, or see a friend, or paint her kitchen.

She may well be very poorly. None of us know what her diagnosis with. But there are very few conditions that mean that someone truly can't live with any form of independence and certainly those people are not capable of Vegas residencies!

Its horrible. I really hope those responsible are held to account and that she is well supported to learn to live as independently as she is able to, truly able to not like now.

Imagine your father having the right to put a piece of metal inside your womb without your consent.

Disgusting.

I've been bi-polar since childhood, and have had great medical/psychiatric and psychology help, including excellent drugs. I am perfectly competent to run my own life. Britney had a meltdown. How many fri**ing years ago was it? She certainly seems to be perfectly capable now. I think it's terrifying, appalling and sinister that she should be under this conservatorship.

It is utterly appalling that someone would be under this due to bipolar. The only justification seems to be that she had the power to make millions if she was being controlled, but off her meds she would potentially have blown millions. That's not about taking care of someone who doesn't have capacity, that's not wanting to make millions and see some of it. Two very different things.

that's wanting

Also that if she wants to try to change/end the thing she must pay costs on both sides.

Why?

Also, if she needs it, that would be found & her Dad wouldn't need to "fight" against it.

Why can't he pay his costs from the money he pays himself as anyone else would have to?

Why did the judge keep her Dad on, that I don't get at all.

In what way is he qualified to look after her finances?

But what interest would the judge jhave in keeping her dad on/not ending it?

We don’t actually know what Britney’s diagnosis is.

But even if she did have severe bipolar I, that’s not a justification for keeping her under house arrest.

I'm going to take the opposite view to many on here. I think if Britney's conservatorship is ended her behaviour will become increasing erratic as unhelpful people with their own agendas around her encourage her to come off meds. Throw into the mix a new baby and all the mood changes that brings and another upset such as a cheating partner and this will tip her over the edge. She will be dead within a year. Where will all the "free Britney" sentiment be then when this ends in tradgedy? These people will just say what a shame and move onto the next celebrity whilst her children are left without a mother at all. I say this because I have seen the train wreck caused by Bipolar in my own family and I can see the similarities. Lithium is a horrible medicine, dulls creativity associated with mania and has unpleasant side effects. But it does stop the out of control reckless behaviour that goes with bipolar which can make patients a danger to themselves and others. Examples of this behaviour in my family: leaving the gas on full blast on all hobs and shutting all doors (thanks to neighbour narrowly avoided a massive explosion which would have taken out neighbours houses as well) On a different occasion leaving the house and wandering off for days in inappropriate clothing. Forming inappropriate attachments to young men including one who turned out to be a criminal and tried to fleece her. Throwing a glass object at her own daughter's head in a fit of temper which narrowly missed. Having between 3-5 relapses a year meaning my mother had to quit her job to look after her own mother. Having a dubious person turn up with a pony at our house because she thinks her granddaughter should have one even though we couldn't afford to keep one and zero discussion on this. She would cycle between getting better then deciding she didn't need lithium, coming off it and then going back into a downward spiral. It was exhausting to deal with and put a strain on my parents marriage. Don't underestimate the seriousness of mental health in people and those that love and care for them. Going back to Britney she has displayed similar from what I understand, the head shaving, burning down her own gym, losing custardy of her own kids. I suspect the latter was for very good reason and for the children's protection incredibly sad though it is. Anyone seen Britney's boyfriend... I hope I am wrong but I think he is using her to promote his fitness 'brand' and become a celebrity off the back of her. I'd actually say he is controlling her and whoring her out on Instagram to show off fitness moves devised by him! He has called the father a 'dick' which may be true but I wonder if getting the disapproving father out the picture supports his aims. If I am right this boyfriend will eventually devastate her and lead to a massive relapse which could be fatal. Seen it all before it's awful to watch. Sorry but I don't think 'freeing Britney' is in her own best interests unless you can also free her from her mental illness and people who want to profit from her.

Also to say I believe lithium is tetrogenic so this can lead to birth defects if a person tries to have a child whilst on it. Also when people have bipolar and are at a stage where they cannot look after themselves reliably they are unlikely to remember to take contraception in the form of a pill therefore a coil or implant are the safest way of protecting them.

@Thedevilandthedeep

Also to say I believe lithium is tetrogenic so this can lead to birth defects if a person tries to have a child whilst on it. Also when people have bipolar and are at a stage where they cannot look after themselves reliably they are unlikely to remember to take contraception in the form of a pill therefore a coil or implant are the safest way of protecting them.

It is teratogenic, as is valproate. Which is why in the UK, women are supported and monitored when they are off the medication so they can exercise their rights regarding their own body and reproductive choices, not effectively spayed by Daddy because he doesn't want the merchandise to look a bit porky for a while/another potential competitor for the income.

But if they're protecting her, then why are they working this poor woman to the bone?

@Thedevilandthedeep

Are you really suggesting that anyone with bipolar should be held under house arrest for their own good?

Just because someone is mentally ill does not mean they lose the right to freedom everyone else enjoys. Their lives may be more erratic than others, but that is part of the process of their learning to manage their condition.

From Britney’s testimony it appears that she was given lithium because she was not compliant with work demands in Vegas not because there were true concerns she was bipolar.

I’m not saying she’s not, but if her word is to be believed, there’s more to this than simply mental illness.

Incarcerating anyone under the conditions in which Britney has been kept would be bad for anyone’s mental health let alone someone with bipolar.

What evidence do you have of her being 'incarcerated' other than tabloids? No I agree no one should be imprisoned. But just speaking from experience my family member usually landed herself in hospital being sectioned when she dropped her meds. It was not for want of trying to help her live independently. Britney should be free to have kids if she wants. But it would be sad and in zero persons interests if those kids ended up in care or with other family members because she couldn't control the MH. No one would chose that for a child. What if she has four more that all end up in care. I don't have any answers I'm afraid but I don't think that situation works either.

What evidence do you have of her being 'incarcerated' other than tabloids?

Sorry, what?

1. I don't read tabloids.
2. What do you think this hearing is about?

I think you're too tied up in your relative to pay attention to what is actually going on here tbh.

@TatianaBis

I think you're too tied up in your relative to pay attention to what is actually going on here tbh.

Thedevilandthedeep is surely only reflecting on the situation a lot of people who are bipolar are in when they are not medicated?

The pattern she describes is well established in the literature. Someone with the diagnosis does okay on medication but, at some stage, stops taking the meds, experiences a deterioration in their mental health which leads to a crisis and hospitalization (often under section). Then they get stabilized again on meds. Until next time.

What we don't crucially know here is Britney's diagnosis. But if it IS bipolar, this is likely to be her pattern too. A pattern that is destructive to HER, absolutely. But also to others (esp any children she has or goes on to have.) This is the reality.

Whatever her diagnosis and her difficulties, I don't personally think her father should be the conservator. (Too much dysfunctional family background, too much interest in Britney's money.) But maybe someone else does have to be.

"Give this person her/his freedom", when the person has a severe mental health condition that can involve reckless and dangerous behaviour, is unwise. . .to put it mildly.

It’s a common pattern in bipolar and other mental illnesses - of taking and not taking medication. Even when people are medicated there are still crises, highs and lows, psychotic episodes, hospitalizations etc.

We do not know Britney’s diagnosis, we do know she has been under a conservatorship that is not a typical legal instrument for people with bipolar. It is used more usually for dementia for example.

We also know that, thus far in proceedings, bipolar has not been mentioned. So everything connecting Britney to bipolar is pure speculation. Details of her experience of her conservatorship, by contrast, are now a matter of public record.

To not not understand that someone who may be suffering from mental illness still has a human right to freedom, even if that freedom leads to erratic behaviour seems fundamentally naive.

Arawak she is not a paranoid shizophrenic who is actively dangerous to others.

@TatianaBis

It’s a common pattern in bipolar and other mental illnesses - of taking and not taking medication. Even when people are medicated there are still crises, highs and lows, psychotic episodes, hospitalizations etc.

We do not know Britney’s diagnosis, we do know she has been under a conservatorship that is not a typical legal instrument for people with bipolar. It is used more usually for dementia for example.

We also know that, thus far in proceedings, bipolar has not been mentioned. So everything connecting Britney to bipolar is pure speculation. Details of her experience of her conservatorship, by contrast, are now a matter of public record.

To not not understand that someone who may be suffering from mental illness still has a human right to freedom, even if that freedom leads to erratic behaviour seems fundamentally naive.

Arawak she is not a paranoid shizophrenic who is actively dangerous to others.

The human right to freedom is not unlimited. Not for any of us. Someone having a bipolar episode can endanger the safety of the person concerned and that of others. If you know anything about bipolar you will know this.

In the UK we have the Mental Health Act (1983.) In certain circumstances, freedom of an individual can be curtailed for a period of time, with provisos. It is not used lightly. Most other Western countries have similar legislation.

I did emphasize that BS might not have bipolar. Equally, she might.

Getting pregnant due to unsafe sex while manic and then having a child or children you can't look after (because of your ongoing illness) is not just "erratic behaviour." I have known several women with this diagnosis do this. I am not "fundamentally naive", I have seen it up close.

Britney's own children were removed from her care. That kind of decision is not taken lightly, either. Yes, it's possible that it was made in bad faith by some psychiatrists and others in hock to Britney's father but, again, it might not have been.

Speaking generally and not just about BS, letting people who are very unwell just be totally free, without safeguards, isn't responsible and it isn't kind. I'm really not sure you understand the issues.

This is all so obtuse. I understand the issues perfectly, you’re not the only person who knows people with bipolar.

But there exists the procedure for sectioning people under the mental health act here and in the US if they pose a danger to themselves or other people.

We are not discussing a sectioning, or even a spell in psychiatric hospital we are discussing a conservatorship and curtailment of liberty for 13 years.

Please grasp the fundamental difference.

" letting people who are very unwell just be totally free, without safeguards, isn't responsible and it isn't kind."

But how can they make her work & live off her money?

What care is she being given?

@Thedevilandthedeep

What evidence do you have of her being 'incarcerated' other than tabloids? No I agree no one should be imprisoned. But just speaking from experience my family member usually landed herself in hospital being sectioned when she dropped her meds. It was not for want of trying to help her live independently. Britney should be free to have kids if she wants. But it would be sad and in zero persons interests if those kids ended up in care or with other family members because she couldn't control the MH. No one would chose that for a child. What if she has four more that all end up in care. I don't have any answers I'm afraid but I don't think that situation works either.

But just speaking from experience my family member usually landed herself in hospital being sectioned when she dropped her meds this has not happened, though. BS has been supervised taking meds for 13 years while also working and making money. She has said that now, after 13 years, she would like the conservatorship to end - until that happens nobody has any idea whether or not she has/has had but no longer has serious mh difficulties which she cannot manage by herself. As for relying on tabloids for evidence is this not exactly what you are doing when you jump to this assumption What if she has four more that all end up in care. I don't have any answers I'm afraid but I don't think that situation works either

Let's hope she gets a fair and intelligent hearing from the judge, at least.

@diddl

" letting people who are very unwell just be totally free, without safeguards, isn't responsible and it isn't kind."

But how can they make her work & live off her money?

What care is she being given?

I made it clear with my remark that I was talking generally about people with serious mental illness, not about BS herself.

I agree it's totally immoral making Britney work and living off her money.

And I don't agree that her father should have the control that he has. IF she needs some kind of conservatorship, then it needs to be a person outside the family and the whole money-making circus.

@TatianaBis

This is all so obtuse. I understand the issues perfectly, you’re not the only person who knows people with bipolar.

But there exists the procedure for sectioning people under the mental health act here and in the US if they pose a danger to themselves or other people.

We are not discussing a sectioning, or even a spell in psychiatric hospital we are discussing a conservatorship and curtailment of liberty for 13 years.

Please grasp the fundamental difference.

I made it clear with some of those remarks that I was talking IN GENERAL, not about Britney Spears!

There is a fundamental difference there. Improve your comprehension skills. I was not talking about Britney and the conservator issue!

@TurquoiseLemur

We’re talking about mental illness in general and Britney in particular on a thread about her predicament.

If you feel misunderstood the onus is on you to be more articulate.